Tywin Is Overrated Battle Commander

[Frey Pie]

Nice quote - It's interesting to note that Robb mostly followed that advice. He irritates Jaime into an ill advised attack, pretends to be a green boy so that Tywin underestimates him, separates Jaime's army and attacked Stafford when he was unprepared and at a place where Robb was not expected.

Thanks. Although tbh you can find Sun Tzu quotes to make most generals look brilliant in one area and awful in others. Whats clear though is Roose cared as much about hurting his own men as he did the enemy, which is never a good move, and which obviously makes Tywins job easier. Yet again though Tywin makes the most of it

[Barty]

Thats your argument? That the enemy commander was stupid? sorry if i find that a lackluster argument.

I could very well say the same of robb vs jaime at the ww, "oh that was just jaime being stupid" jesus christ people credit were it is due please. Try not to be so biased.

ETA and yeah, ned saw through that plan so fast, thats why he was going to ride into the riverlands and fall right into tywins hands.

You seem to be taking my post out of context - I have nowhere stated that Tywin was stupid or a bad commander. I was stating that if the Riverlands had been held in competent hands they would have seen through Tywin's plan.

As for Robb - He is given credit because he not only fools the idiot Jaime but also the great Tywin.

[Nyrhex]

You seem to be taking my post out of context - I have nowhere stated that Tywin was stupid or a bad commander. I was stating that if the Riverlands had been held in competent hands they would have seen through Tywin's plan.

As for Robb - He is given credit because he not only fools the idiot Jaime but also the great Tywin.

But Ned does'nt see through Tywin's plan. As far as anyone is concerned, as long as Robert is king, there can be no war. Ned summoned Tywin to court while Tywin was moving his army to the Riverlands from the south. Ned was as obliviouse as anyone else.

Edmure orgenizes ~16,000 men, sends some to guard the pass, some to defend against raids. Jaime destroys the smaller portion at the pass with a full army, and Tywin brings another from the south. Look at Edmure with less men, but better intel later at the fords - Tywin can't cross, despite having more men then Jaime had. When he attacks first while everyone believes the king's peace wil stop war, and with an army twice the sieze of the enemy (The reason Jaime could afford to move so fast was that Tywin's army was securing his rear) - Tywin takes most of the Rivelands. Take away the numbers and the surprise - Tywin loses to Edmure.

And I would'nt call Jaime an idiot. A hothead, inexperianced and too sure of himself, but not an idiot. Tywin also isn't great. He has great influence at court only becaue Robert is a drunken idiot, and so he can afford to make moves that a stronger king would stop earlier. He also manages to get some success early on mostly because of numbers, and after kiling the king.

[Barty]

But Ned does'nt see through Tywin's plan. As far as anyone is concerned, as long as Robert is king, there can be no war. Ned summoned Tywin to court while Tywin was moving his army to the Riverlands from the south. Ned was as obliviouse as anyone else.

Edmure orgenizes ~16,000 men, sends some to guard the pass, some to defend against raids. Jaime destroys the smaller portion at the pass with a full army, and Tywin brings another from the south. Look at Edmure with less men, but better intel later at the fords - Tywin can't cross, despite having more men then Jaime had. When he attacks first while everyone believes the king's peace wil stop war, and with an army twice the sieze of the enemy (The reason Jaime could afford to move so fast was that Tywin's army was securing his rear) - Tywin takes most of the Rivelands. Take away the numbers and the surprise - Tywin loses to Edmure.

I was talking about seeing through Tywin's plan of spreading Edmure's forces so he can beat them one by one. This is what Ned feared and this is exactly what Tywin did. Ned , however, fell for Tywin's other plan - only his broken leg saved him from being captured or killed

[Mr Hodor]

He almost won the war despite the follies of Joffrey and cersei

He may have had personal flaws, and may not have been the greatest tactician, but he was the best general

[Frey Pie]

He almost won the war despite the follies of Joffrey and cersei

He may have had personal flaws, and may not have been the greatest tactician, but he was the best general

Would he have won it without Melisandre, Tyrion and LF though? Without LF he could have been caught between Robb Stark and the Vale lords at the onset of the war

[E-Ro]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P225

Just figured i would post this, wrt tywin and renly.