Is Satin a spy?

[Nerolunar]

What interest could Littlefinger have on the Wall?

Besides Stannis of course..

[juanml82]

What interest could Littlefinger have on the Wall?

Besides Stannis of course..

That Snow guy raising a wildling army, who sheltered Stannis, has too many reasons to hate the Lannisters and might wish to claim Winterfell

[Noxus]

That Snow guy raising a wildling army, who sheltered Stannis, has too many reasons to hate the Lannisters and might wish to claim Winterfell

Satin arrived way before that, though.

[Lady of Long Lake]

What interest could LF have? Aemon could always be a target of interest. Didn't LF get a bunch of tapestries from KL sent to him? Maybe they were Targ ones and he's a secret fanboy.

[Ghost's Shadow]

But there is also Melissandre's warning and I guess that, if she read the flames correctly, it only seems to apply to Satin or Tormund.

Mel's someone who desperately wants to get into Jon's good graces, so if she has a name - any of those two - why does she not mention it? It could get her some big points perhaps.

Does SHE know who was going to attack him, or did she just see something vague again? With Mel you never know.

[juanml82]

Mel's someone who desperately wants to get into Jon's good graces, so if she has a name - any of those two - why does she not mention it? It could get her some big points perhaps.

Does SHE know who was going to attack him, or did she just see something vague again? With Mel you never know.

We could believe after the Arya/Alys fiasco, she isn't risking a name. I take it that it's something vague. Or she's lying outright, hoping someone does betray Jon and she can say "I've told you so". We know Melissandre combines real magic with tricks and appearances.

Satin arrived way before that, though.

Yep. LF could believe there were chances of Jon Snow rising in the watch - the brother of the king in the north makes sense as a LC before the RW and sending Satin might have been a small investment in his part. I still think LF's main source on the Wall are sailors, though. And there is the issue of believing a male prostitute would be able to 'infiltrate' the high ranking members of the watch.

[Dragon Roast]

I don't see LF having any interest in the Wall or beyond the Wall at all. These are places that have never had an impact on power and the Iron Throne since Aegon's Landing. Why would LF care at all about the land of snarks and grumpkins? I just don't see it.

Now I suppose that Satin could have been an agent for somebody else who did give a damn about the Wall. Perhaps Marsh or Oldtown or somebody else. OTOH, all of that seems a stretch.

[Father of Hosts]

Can Satin read and write? Can't remember...

[Martin Lasarte]

Can Satin read and write? Can't remember...

Yes, Jon says he can do it "after a fashion" when he defends him before Marsh and the septon.

[Jahbulon]

Even if Satin ends up being the perfumed seneschal, I really think it is a reach to think it was LF that sent him. My main guess was the Citadel (he could have been been an acolyte planted in an Oldtown prison after bring trained to spy, and the prostitute story was a ruse).

Or he could also be a spy for Varys. I'm thinking the former.

For anyone thinking about the Quaithe prophecy being something that only applies to Dany, if the case that Quaithe is actually a subconscious representation of Dany, who has had many dreams about a lover whom she cannot discern the face of, it may be that she is seeing some sort of vision that doesn't necessarily apply to her, but to someone she is meant to meet in the future.

Maybe Jon. You can connect many if not all of the symbols in that "prophecy" to Jon.

Perhaps the drinking of the nightshade gave her a bit of vision. For the future. And not for herself. There was no real future vision from Quaithe until after the nightshade.

[Satin Flowers]

Satin is from Oldtown, but if he is the "foppish youth in soiled satin" that came in with a group of other recruits, then he was found in a Lords dungeons in Gulltown.

Does that seem a bit odd to anyone else?

I thought at first that it might just be one of those little inconsistancies like eye color, that sometimes get mixed up.

As much as love Satin, I can't help but feel that there is something "off" with him. He's almost too perfect, which in the world of ASOIAF tends to set off warning bells for me.

He's supposedly a whore, but he can read and write. Why would a whore need to know how to read and write?

He can also dance. And I don't mean exotic dancing. Why would a male whore know how to dance gracefully, as in not just doing a jig? Especially if he was supposedly servicing male customers?

He speaks properly as well. He says "My Lord" not "m'lord" when addressing Jon.

He seems to do everything quite well and efficiently, with the odd exception of failing to keep Jon's fires lit in the LC's chambers.

Something definitely odd about Satin, but I can't put my finger on it.

I don't want him to turn out to be a bad person, so I'm hoping that he doesn't have a secret agenda.

As for being a spy for LF, possibly, since Gulltown is in The Vale, and LF was supposedly supplying boys for Lyn Corbray. Maybe Satin was one of those boys?

I just wonder what kind of leverage LF would have over Satin, to get him to agree to go to Wall as a spy, if that was the case.

[danm_999]

Yep. LF could believe there were chances of Jon Snow rising in the watch - the brother of the king in the north makes sense as a LC before the RW and sending Satin might have been a small investment in his part.

Satin is sent to the Wall well before Robb becomes King in the North though, and while Jon is still a rank and file member.

[diremitar]

Satin is from Oldtown, but if he is the "foppish youth in soiled satin" that came in with a group of other recruits, then he was found in a Lords dungeons in Gulltown.

Does that seem a bit odd to anyone else?

I thought at first that it might just be one of those little inconsistancies like eye color, that sometimes get mixed up.

As much as love Satin, I can't help but feel that there is something "off" with him. He's almost too perfect, which in the world of ASOIAF tends to set off warning bells for me.

He's supposedly a whore, but he can read and write. Why would a whore need to know how to read and write?

He can also dance. And I don't mean exotic dancing. Why would a male whore know how to dance gracefully, as in not just doing a jig? Especially if he was supposedly servicing male customers?

He speaks properly as well. He says "My Lord" not "m'lord" when addressing Jon.

He seems to do everything quite well and efficiently, with the odd exception of failing to keep Jon's fires lit in the LC's chambers.

Something definitely odd about Satin, but I can't put my finger on it.

I don't want him to turn out to be a bad person, so I'm hoping that he doesn't have a secret agenda.

As for being a spy for LF, possibly, since Gulltown is in The Vale, and LF was supposedly supplying boys for Lyn Corbray. Maybe Satin was one of those boys?

I just wonder what kind of leverage LF would have over Satin, to get him to agree to go to Wall as a spy, if that was the case.

I know, Satin seems to be too well educated and mannered for a common whore. He could learn good manners and proper speaking in brothel but I doubt they learn writing and reading in brothel unless they want you to use that abilities in their own goals. If LF owns brothel he owns whores although slavery in Westeros is forbidden they actually belong to LF if not in paper. He can do with Satin whatever he wants, if Satin refuses he will threw him on the street or more probably kill him. So Satin doesn't have choice if LF says you are going to Wall he will do that

Satin is sent to the Wall well before Robb becomes King in the North though, and while Jon is still a rank and file member.

I don't believe LF considered Jon real threat, he was just cautious and wanted to know what's going with Jon just in case

[danm_999]

I don't believe LF considered Jon real threat, he was just cautious and wanted to know what's going with Jon just in case

What evidence/reasoning do we have that Littlefinger considered Jon someone worth spying on? He doesn't send anybody to spy on Robb, Bran or Rickon, and they're all quite a bit more important than Jon politically.

And if Littlefinger truly was interested in Jon, even when he was a rank and file member of the Night's Watch, why does he never, ever ask Sansa about him (and Sansa would have more info on Jon than virtually anybody alive), even when Jon becomes Lord Commander and is actually important?

This whole idea about Littlefinger sending Satin only really makes sense if he knew what would happen with Jon in ASoS and ADWD. But Littlefinger obviously doesn't.

[Osric]

If it is true it would be more likely to me if he is Varys's spy, he had made busissnes with prostitutes before (Alayaya) and if he really knows all the secrets in Westeros he would have grate interest in Jon, more important now with the arrival of Aegon

[diremitar]

What evidence/reasoning do we have that Littlefinger considered Jon someone worth spying on? He doesn't send anybody to spy on Robb, Bran or Rickon, and they're all quite a bit more important than Jon politically.

And if Littlefinger truly was interested in Jon, even when he was a rank and file member of the Night's Watch, why does he never, ever ask Sansa about him (and Sansa would have more info on Jon than virtually anybody alive), even when Jon becomes Lord Commander and is actually important?

This whole idea about Littlefinger sending Satin only really makes sense if he knew what would happen with Jon in ASoS and ADWD. But Littlefinger obviously doesn't.

Idk maybe I am giving LF more credits than he deserves

But Satin is still very suspicious

[I know I know]

i once read a tongue-in-cheek theory that Satin would kill Dany.

Best theory I had read in a while.

[Father of Hosts]

Depending on the timing, if LF knew Stannis had left for the Wall, it would make since for him to have a spy there, just to know what is going on. I highly doubt Satin was sent by LF to specifically spy on Jon. He would be more of a general spy, keeping tabs on Stannis and the North in general.

This is a big IF, however.

[Ghost's Shadow]

i once read a tongue-in-cheek theory that Satin would kill Dany.

Best theory I had read in a while.

Stop teasing us and link it. :lol:

[juanml82]

What evidence/reasoning do we have that Littlefinger considered Jon someone worth spying on? He doesn't send anybody to spy on Robb, Bran or Rickon, and they're all quite a bit more important than Jon politically.

And if Littlefinger truly was interested in Jon, even when he was a rank and file member of the Night's Watch, why does he never, ever ask Sansa about him (and Sansa would have more info on Jon than virtually anybody alive), even when Jon becomes Lord Commander and is actually important?

This whole idea about Littlefinger sending Satin only really makes sense if he knew what would happen with Jon in ASoS and ADWD. But Littlefinger obviously doesn't.

Well, I think he should be interested in Jon by the end of AFFC/ADWD, but he's not going to ask Sansa for two reasons:

1) To avoid lampshading to the readers that he's interested

2) Because he knows Sansa could fear he means to harm Jon and, thus, her information wouldn't be reliable. For instance, if Sansa implies Jon is as honourable as his father (and thus, he isn't going to claim Winterfell), is that information reliable? Or is Sansa saying it so LF doesn't somehow, act against Jon?

That doesn't mean Satin is LF spy though.