IRON BANK Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yes Robert would be a in tough situation, but Arya would probably be banished from court at the least and probably be sent back home. It might even have lost Ned his position as Hand.Yes Robert was one thing but when it came to Cersie lip he had his limits. I remeber him honoring her once with a slap across the face. Also Robert thought martial prowess was paramount for a warrior and leader I dont think Arrya would have bore that punishment alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I dont like her lying about her sister but idk if awful is the right word to describe Sansa.In AGOT I remember disliking her more than anyone, even Cersei.She is one of my favorites now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 But Robert knew what his son is. He knew that most likely it was Joffrey's fault, and he put 11 year-old girl to take that burden. Robert was a coward here, not mentioning questioning Arya without her father. Robert gave Sansa impossible task of choosing side, and all Sansa did was not to. What Robert did is something no sane parent would ever do.Who cared about truth here? Robert didn't, Cersei didn't... They have sent Hound long before Sansa said anything to actually kill the boy. If the told Sandor to bring him, the boy wouldn't be dead.You also forget that without proof, Arya also wasn't punished...And she knew her relationship with Joffrey was doomed based on what? Crystall ball... She couldn't have predicted how the things will turn out to be. Heck, ned couldn't do that...Is it stated in the text that the Hound was ordered to kill Mycah? I thought he just rode him down when he found him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Difference in this situation though is that Dunk was low born.Arya Stark is a daughter of the WOTN. You can't just harm her without major ramifications.Joffrey was also the Crown Prince, while Aerion wasn't.edit:More regarding the farce of a trial. I am not a lawyer or anything, but cannot Judges allow it for children to testify in private outside of open court to help relive some of the pressures and stress they might face? Thus, wouldn't common sense say that is what Robert should have done rather then make Sansa do it in front of the entire court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Is it stated in the text that the Hound was ordered to kill Mycah? I thought he just rode him down when he found him.Hound was sent, he didn't go on his own. And he even says during his trial in Brotherhood's cave that he could't question orders and words of the Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Hound was sent, he didn't go on his own. And he even says during his trial in Brotherhood's cave that he could't question orders and words of the Prince.I always wondered. Who sent him?Was it Cersei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yes, because Robert cared so much when his best friend was attacked and had his men slaughtered by Jaime. Oh wait, instead he didn't do anything but bitch at Ned and then go hunting like the lazy fool he is. Simply, Cersei and Joffrey would have gotten their way because Robert wouldn't bother to care about real justice. Moreover, again I doubt that the law would support Arya's decision to attack Joffrey without punishment just because she was defending a peasant. Especially seeing how Dunk couldn't just use that defense when he was accused of striking Aerion and he even had the Crown Prince approving of his action. Instead, he had to use a Trial by Combat/Seven to get off from his charge without punishment.Robert's best friend had just ordered the kidnapping of his brother in law. Once again Ned is actually lucky that Robert is his best friend. Just imagine the situation and Ned's right hand man kidnaps Edmure. The law was probably not in Arya's favour, but the Targaryens had more power. Arya proving Joffrey lied at court, being the daughter of a Lord Paramount and the situation would have probably got her a lenient punishment. Not the same if Joffrey's version was true.But Robert knew what his son is. He knew that most likely it was Joffrey's fault, and he put 11 year-old girl to take that burden. Robert was a coward here, not mentioning questioning Arya without her father. Robert gave Sansa impossible task of choosing side, and all Sansa did was not to. What Robert did is something no sane parent would ever do.No Robert did the right thing. Just, because his son was bad sort, does not mean he was lying here. Sansa had the chance to tell the truth and allow the truth to come out. She choise not to. She was not in an impossible situation. She could tell the truth or lie. She chose to lie.Who cared about truth here? Robert didn't, Cersei didn't... They have sent Hound long before Sansa said anything to actually kill the boy. If the told Sandor to bring him, the boy wouldn't be dead.People at court, Selmy etc. However, Cersei and Robert are still chained by the law. If Arya is proven to be right and Joffrey a liar, then it changes a lot. Yes the boy would have died, but Sansa did not know that at the time. At the time she held Mycah's future in her hands, but did chose to lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Is it stated in the text that the Hound was ordered to kill Mycah? I thought he just rode him down when he found him.He was ordered to bring the boy in, but Cersei for sure told him to kill the boy. Cersei had also instructed the Lannisters to take off Arya's hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I always wondered. Who sent him?Was it Cersei?I don't know, he never said explicitally. He said that he couldn't question Prince's word, so I imagine it was Joffrey and Cersei sending him. And since he returned with dead body proves that he wasn't sent to find the boy, but to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 I always wondered. Who sent him?Was it Cersei?Probably Cersei or Robert but i doubt they ordered the Hound to kill Mycah, pretty sure he did that of his own free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Probably Cersei or Robert but i doubt they ordered the Hound to kill Mycah, pretty sure he did that of his own free will.Sandor seemed like he follows orders to a T.It was probably Cersei since she goes on a "kill first, ask questions never" crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Robert's best friend had just ordered the kidnapping of his brother in law. Once again Ned is actually lucky that Robert is his best friend. Just imagine the situation and Ned's right hand man kidnaps Edmure.The law was probably not in Arya's favour, but the Targaryens had more power. Arya proving Joffrey lied at court, being the daughter of a Lord Paramount and the situation would have probably got her a lenient punishment. Not the same if Joffrey's version was true.Thus Lady would have been killed either way as Cersei would have gotten her demanded punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 I don't know, he never said explicitally. He said that he couldn't question Prince's word, so I imagine it was Joffrey and Cersei sending him. And since he returned with dead body proves that he wasn't sent to find the boy, but to kill him.Couldnt he have killed Mycah without having been ordered? The Hound isnt one of the best people i wouldnt doubt he would murder an innocent child.However at the same time Cersei probably did tell him to kill Mycha, she is a crazy paranoid biaatch after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 But Robert knew what his son is. He knew that most likely it was Joffrey's fault, and he put 11 year-old girl to take that burden. Robert was a coward here, not mentioning questioning Arya without her father. Robert gave Sansa impossible task of choosing side, and all Sansa did was not to. What Robert did is something no sane parent would ever do.And she knew her relationship with Joffrey was doomed based on what? Crystall ball... She couldn't have predicted how the things will turn out to be. Heck, ned couldn't do that...I will give you the fact that Robert was being ridiculous holding court with out Ned their, however that could have been abated after Ned did show up, secondly we are assuming that Robert was aware of how bad his sons actions were. Parents seem to look at thier kids in the best light instead of the worse. This instant could have exposed that Giving him the initiative to mold him.she would have known how bad Joffrey was if she would have told the truth. ( if Joffrey would have continued to lie and Arrya was severly punished do you think Sansa would have been so naive later on to what the queen and Joffrey were actually like. Do you think an 11 year old who ses their sister get hurt would still side with the liar who hurt her. Telling the truth would have been harsh for the moment but would have been enlightening showing the severity of a possible future.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Couldnt he have killed Mycah without having been ordered? The Hound isnt one of the best people i wouldnt doubt he would murder an innocent child.However at the same time Cersei probably did tell him to kill Mycha, she is a crazy paranoid biaatch after all.Sandor directly says he was ordered to do it in ASOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 No Robert did the right thing. Just, because his son was bad sort, does not mean he was lying here. Sansa had the chance to tell the truth and allow the truth to come out. She choise not to. She was not in an impossible situation. She could tell the truth or lie. She chose to lie.People at court, Selmy etc. However, Cersei and Robert are still chained by the law. If Arya is proven to be right and Joffrey a liar, then it changes a lot. Yes the boy would have died, but Sansa did not know that at the time. At the time she held Mycah's future in her hands, but did chose to lie.I am sorry, but if I suspect my son is a psychopath and something like this happens, I would go and talk to him myself. Threaten him if I must, just to find out the truth. I wouldn't let little girls doing my job. Robert was a terrible father here.Which people? Barristan? then he was the only one, because entire room was filled with Lannister men, and no one cared that 8 year-old girl is questioned without a presence of her father. They are not chained by the law, since they didn't care. What would happened if Sansa told the truth? Mycah would be risen from dead? No... Thing is this was between Arya and Joffrey, and Sansa was brought to tell which one tells the truth. I doubt she even thought of Mycah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 secondly we are assuming that Robert was aware of how bad his sons actions were. Parents seem to look at thier kids in the best light instead of the worse. This instant could have exposed that Giving him the initiative to mold him.Robert openly admits to Ned that he believes that Joffrey was lying and that he is a complete monster. (through that makes you wonder why the hell did Robert wish to saddle his best friend's daughter with his monstrous son?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Robert openly admits to Ned that he believes that Joffrey was lying and that he is a complete monster. (through that makes you wonder why the hell did Robert wish to saddle his best friend's daughter with his monstrous son?)Well, Robert isn't the best man around, and he isn't that good of a friend either.He doesn't seem to contact Ned unless he needs him(Greyjoy Rebellion, Handship) and Ned does not want any of his contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuther2000 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 IMO, Sansa didn't lose Lady because she lied. She lost Lady so that she could be completely helpless and isolated in King's Landing. No matter what Sansa said someone would have been punished. Cersei was gunning for blood and since she can't kill the daughter of the Warden of the North. She chose another way to hit it where it hurts. Lady's death is also meant to show us how much the dire wolves mean to the children. Remember after realizing Summer saved Bran, Ned thinks about what he has done with killing Lady, Sans a protector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Sandor directly says he was ordered to do it in ASOS.Quote? Cause im pretty sure he doesnt say verbatim the Prince ordered me to kill Mycah..I could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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