mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Does he or Tywin ever mention it?Yes he mentions it."For the realm! Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king . . . I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly . . . "He knew what was going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of Dragonstone Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 The only decertified Maester we see is Qyburn, who did some really dreadful shit. Pycelle was acting within professional standards.LOL and then he rose to Master of Whisperers, thanks to good ole' Cersei. She sure knows how to pick 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Yes he mentions it."For the realm! Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king . . . I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly . . . "He knew what was going to happen.Thank you for correcting me then.I'm still not so sure he knew of the sack though, maybe he expected Aerys to surrender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Thank you for correcting me then.I'm still not so sure he knew of the sack though, maybe he expected Aerys to surrender.No he definitely knew and he was definitely acting as Tywins inside man - he is described throughout the series as unerringly loyal to the Lannisters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 None of his wrongs have ever been proven conclusively,He probably knew what Tywin would do,But Tywin did say he would defend the city when he came to the doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 No he definitely knew and he was definitely acting as Tywins inside man - he is described throughout the series as unerringly loyal to the LannistersWe do not know where that loyalty comes from, and when it started, though.For all I know, it could have started after the rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 We do not know where that loyalty comes from, and when it started, though.For all I know, it could have started after the rebellion."Always . . . for years . . . your lord father, ask him, I was ever his true servant . . . 'twas I who bid Aerys open his gates . . . " That took Tyrion by surprise. He had been no more than an ugly boy at Casterly Rock when the city fell. "So the Sack of King's Landing was your work as well?"Those are the lines immediately before it. Pycelle genuinely does seem to believe that Tywin is best for the realm, but would not be surprised if he was a Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 "Always . . . for years . . . your lord father, ask him, I was ever his true servant . . . 'twas I who bid Aerys open his gates . . . " That took Tyrion by surprise. He had been no more than an ugly boy at Casterly Rock when the city fell. "So the Sack of King's Landing was your work as well?"Those are the lines immediately before it. Pycelle genuinely does seem to believe that Tywin is best for the realm, but would not be surprised if he was a Lannister.yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 "Always . . . for years . . . your lord father, ask him, I was ever his true servant . . . 'twas I who bid Aerys open his gates . . . " That took Tyrion by surprise. He had been no more than an ugly boy at Casterly Rock when the city fell. "So the Sack of King's Landing was your work as well?"Those are the lines immediately before it. Pycelle genuinely does seem to believe that Tywin is best for the realm, but would not be surprised if he was a Lannister.You've convinced me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Areo Mace Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Tywin was Hand of the King for twenty years before the rebellion, and Pycelle was already GM for I believe ten years before that. So, it's not unreasonable to believe that he became loyal to Tywin during that span of time. But, him possibly being a Lannister (maybe one of Lannisport) does make sense due to his amount of loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illrede Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Also, the Citadel is jealous of its power. Somebody not them acting against the Grand Maester for whatever reason just makes them double down. Shockingly enough Pycelle's greatest critics are Lannisters that think he's too much of a Lannister toady- Tyrion and Kevan's "stop and think before doing whatever Cersei wants godsdammit!" moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mNoSer Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Pycelle has always been a tool of the Lannisters. Just like in our world, it's all about your connections and who you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Do you mean people in Westeros do not know that Pycelle planned for Tywin to sack the city or do you mean us readers are unaware of his goals? He wanted Tywin to sack the city and become king. This is why he told Aerys to open the gate.We get that he wanted Tywin to take over, but how does the sack benefit anyone except the Lannister men-at-arms? It sure rapes the King's Landing economy for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 We get that he wanted Tywin to take over, but how does the sack benefit anyone except the Lannister men-at-arms? It sure rapes the King's Landing economy for a while.He believes and probably correctly that Twyin is the best ruler the realm can have. Tywin becomes king and the realm prospers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 He believes and probably correctly that Twyin is the best ruler the realm can have. Tywin becomes king and the realm prospers.Question - is there a scenario in which Tywin can become King without sacking KL? Tywin was Hand of the King for twenty years before the rebellion, and Pycelle was already GM for I believe ten years before that. So, it's not unreasonable to believe that he became loyal to Tywin during that span of time. But, him possibly being a Lannister (maybe one of Lannisport) does make sense due to his amount of loyalty. Theory - could Tywin and Pycelle have been lovers at one point? How long before or after Joanna's death did Tywin take the position as Hand?Also, the Citadel is jealous of its power. Somebody not them acting against the Grand Maester for whatever reason just makes them double down. Shockingly enough Pycelle's greatest critics are Lannisters that think he's too much of a Lannister toady- Tyrion and Kevan's "stop and think before doing whatever Cersei wants godsdammit!" moments. In another Pycelle thread, someone else (I forgot who) made an interesting comment. The Grand Maester serves as a liaison between the Throne and the Citadel. Pycelle's over-involvement in the intrigues of KL means that he probably keeps himself and the Crown too distracted to notice what's going on in the Citadel. If the maesters are working on some kind of secret plan, they probably prefer the small council and their GM not paying any attention to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Question - is there a scenario in which Tywin can become King without sacking KL?Probably not, but why would Pycelle care?Theory - could Tywin and Pycelle have been lovers at one point? How long before or after Joanna's death did Tywin take the position as Hand?Very unlikely. Pycelle seems to be straight and so does Tywin. Pycelle has sex with a woman during the series and Tywin possibly does the same with Shae. Apart from that, Pycelle is over 25 years older than Tywin. What even gives you the slightest suggest this could be true? Tywin was Hand at 20 long before Joanna died.In another Pycelle thread, someone else (I forgot who) made an interesting comment. The Grand Maester serves as a liaison between the Throne and the Citadel. Pycelle's over-involvement in the intrigues of KL means that he probably keeps himself and the Crown too distracted to notice what's going on in the Citadel. If the maesters are working on some kind of secret plan, they probably prefer the small council and their GM not paying any attention to them.Maybe, but I doubt it. Pycelle seemed to have genuine regard for Tywin and viewed him as the greatest man he ever knew. The Maesters probably want to end magic and bring about a more scientific era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Maybe, but I doubt it. Pycelle seemed to have genuine regard for Tywin and viewed him as the greatest man he ever knew. The Maesters probably want to end magic and bring about a more scientific era. Huh?? I'm not talking about what Pycelle thinks, I'm talking about why the Citadel doesn't care that he's basically become Tywin's lapdog. If they have a conspiracy going in the Citadel, they prefer that Pycelle is completely disengaged from their work and is completely focused on KL because that means that the Crown or anyone else won't find out about their plan. Pycelle's feelings for Tywin may be genuine but it doesn't really matter if they're not; the maesters are happy with him the way he is and won't try to cause a fuss and attract attention by removing him or taking his chain.Very unlikely. Pycelle seems to be straight and so does Tywin. Pycelle has sex with a woman during the series and Tywin possibly does the same with Shae. Apart from that, Pycelle is over 25 years older than Tywin. What even gives you the slightest suggest this could be true? Tywin was Hand at 20 long before Joanna died.Just making sure that there wasn't any entanglement there. Probably not, but why would Pycelle care?Basic human decency? A concern for the wellbeing of the city? Not wanting to live and work in a smoldering ruin until repairs on all the property that the frenzied soldiers damaged? I don't know, there are plenty of reasons why anyone would prefer not to be caught in the middle of a sacking of the city; we kind of see glimpses of that when Daenerys sacks Meereen, for example. Sacking the city basically only rewards the Lannister men-at-arms who can steal, rape, and kill with impunity; it doesn't really move Tywin any closer to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I always thought that technically, the maesters serve the castle and not the Lord, and I thought he was bound to the Red Keep and not Aerys.Technically, yes. Obviously that isn't always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanniswillwin Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 If stannis or anybody else that isn't an idiot takes the IT they will kill him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Pycelle encouraged the gates to be opened so that Tywin could reach the Red Keep, but that is no indication he was encouraging or expecting a sacking of the city. Sacks happen when cities resist and armies have to besiege / assault - the understanding being that the worse the attackers had things the bloodier the sack - and after a city falls to assault it is hard for the victorious army's officers to prevent a sack as discipline is hard to enforce in the mayhem. The circumstances did not warrant a sack, Tywins army had been allowed to enter without battle, and that one happened is entirely on Tywin as there is no reason to think his control over what his army did or did not do suddenly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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