The Prince of Ice Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 And what exactly, do you imagine will happen to the thousands of commoners in the Reach, when Euron get's there? Become thralls (aka slaves), get raped or killed...The funny thing is that Euron is already there, the fleets not gonna help you defend the Reach when the Ironborn are already on land. They have a base to invade in the reach already. Mace should have mobilized by land instead anyways it would be quicker than sending the fleet all the way to the other side of Westeros.IMO its nots worth the lives lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 The funny thing is that Euron is already there, the fleets not gonna help you defend the Reach when the Ironborn are already on land. They have a base to invade in the reach already. Mace should have mobilized by land instead anyways it would be quicker than sending the fleet all the way to the other side of Westeros.How are they going to retake the islands and stop the Iron Born having a Base to sell up the Reach without a fleet? Cersei stupidly put the realm in a lot of danger to get one over the Tyrells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Paul-Arron00 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 The iron born are raping and pillaging. I think he should do w/e necessary to protect his people who are getting sold into slavery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 How are they going to retake the islands and stop the Iron Born having a Base to sell up the Reach without a fleet? Cersei stupidly put the realm in a lot of danger to get one over the Tyrells.They need a fleet in the end to move them out but Mace could send a force to hold the Ironborn in check at the Shields untill the Siege ended when Paxter breaches the wall. It would be much quicker for Mace to send a force by land then have Paxter go all the way around the continent and it would cost less lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crannogman Pride Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I'm with the folks who say Loras is totally fine. Everything Waters tells Cercei sounds ridiculous, and then he leaves with her fleet. It's also like the best possible news for Cercei...with the exception of 1000 fallen men, including great knights and lords. These guys aren't dead either, just with Loras. They were all planning Cercei's downfall already, so misleading the Lannisters in this seems in line with the Tyrell priorities. Which include protecting their people, who are currently being raped by Ironmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 They need a fleet in the end to move them out but Mace could send a force to hold the Ironborn in check at the Shields untill the Siege ended when Paxter breaches the wall. It would be much quicker for Mace to send a force by land then have Paxter go all the way around the continent and it would cost less lives.The would still be able to pillage the Shields and sale all over the Reach from their position. The Reach needed to be saved. They may have been other options, but Loras is a 17 year old warrior, not a commander. Most of the blame must go to Cersei, who could have easily dealt with the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Glokta Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 The funny thing is that Euron is already there, the fleets not gonna help you defend the Reach when the Ironborn are already on land. They have a base to invade in the reach already. Mace should have mobilized by land instead anyways it would be quicker than sending the fleet all the way to the other side of Westeros.IMO its nots worth the lives lost.You can't fight Ironborn on land... If you try, they will go back on their ships and laugh at you. To win against them, one needs a fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 You can't fight Ironborn on land... If you try, they will go back on their ships and laugh at you. To win against them, one needs a fleet.IMO Highgarden and Oldtown probably could coordinate a defensive plan for the shorelines around the Shields long enough for the Siege to end bloodlessly but who knows it might have taken too long like Loras suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conquered Sun Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 and that's why i think he's fine and not "dying" but ya i did laugh as well , i always preferred GarllanMaybe stumbled upon a crackpot theory there. It was just someone posing as loras in his white armour and its that person who is all disfigured and burned. Loras is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegarsjoy Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Maybe stumbled upon a crackpot theory there. It was just someone posing as loras in his white armour and its that person who is all disfigured and burned. Loras is fine.Yeah the tyrells are fond of mummers tricks, I think loras is overrated he used a trick to beat the mountain. The tyrells don't do wars and risk casualty when they can win other ways like they always have. Loras is probably fine and used that fight to get rid of not just lannisters men but important men. why knights and young lords? they bring a handsome reward or when the time is right making their fathers behave, effectively putting the king and cercei dependant on keeping them on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Yes but is that really worth hundreds of lives? Paxter Redwyne had the right of it, the smart thing was to tunnel and breach. Most likely the siege would have ended before the fleet got to the Shields anyways. The only thing taken so far was the Shields, they are a threat but not worth sacrificing hundreds of lives to speed the fleet up, pretty sure most of the keeps in the Reach will have enough a garrison to hold off the Ironborn long enough for Highgarden or Oldtown to respond.The Ironborn could potentially be killing thousands if Loras can't get back to the Reach with the fleet. Time was and is of the essence. The Ironborn are said to be swarming in those waters. Didn't Sam mentioned how even Oldtown itself wasn't safe from the threat?Even though the Ironborn have made landfall, naval power is still the key to cutting off their supply lines and driving them away from the Reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Yeah the tyrells are fond of mummers tricks, I think loras is overrated he used a trick to beat the mountain. The tyrells don't do wars and risk casualty when they can win other ways like they always have. Loras is probably fine and used that fight to get rid of not just lannisters men but important men. why knights and young lords? they bring a handsome reward or when the time is right making their fathers behave, effectively putting the king and cercei dependant on keeping them on the throne.Loras is more like Mace than other Tyrells. This is why he is Mace's favourite. Mace with exceptional skills is what Loras is. He loves glory and wants to be the hero. Riding in first is exactly the sort of thing he would do. He is a young Jaime. Making long plans and trying 'mummers tricks' is not his style.As for being overrated as a fighter I doubt that very much. Robert and Jaime are two of the greatest warriors in the realm. They know about fighting and they both praise Loras very, very highly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 i find it hard to believe that many lords and heirs died at Dragonstone and we haven't heard about a single one of them by name, or even heard the same news being discussed in later chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 The Ironborn could potentially be killing thousands if Loras can't get back to the Reach with the fleet. Time was and is of the essence. The Ironborn are said to be swarming in those waters. Didn't Sam mentioned how even Oldtown itself wasn't safe from the threat?Even though the Ironborn have made landfall, naval power is still the key to cutting off their supply lines and driving them away from the Reach.Im aware of this but check my last post, IMO i think Oldtown and Highgarden could enact a defensive plan for the shores around the shields to hold the area till the Siege ended bloodlessly.The Ironborn dont fight that well on land especially if you have cavalry, i doubt thousands would die if this plan was enacted. Over a thousand lives were lost in the Siege of Dragonstone alone.You would only need the Fleet in the end to finally drive them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissa Nymeros Martell Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I'm with the folks who say Loras is totally fine. Everything Waters tells Cercei sounds ridiculous, and then he leaves with her fleet. It's also like the best possible news for Cercei...with the exception of 1000 fallen men, including great knights and lords. These guys aren't dead either, just with Loras.They were all planning Cercei's downfall already, so misleading the Lannisters in this seems in line with the Tyrell priorities. Which include protecting their people, who are currently being raped by Ironmen.I completely agree. I don't think the Tyrells would have a problem lying to Cersei. It's more plausible that they bought Aurane Waters off with money and part of a fleet. Loras getting mortally injured - and losing 1000 men- on an island that was already supposed to be lightly held doesn't make sense but it does sound like something you'd tell someone that doesn't know anything about wars. Particularly, if the person you're telling isn't wise enough to ask if that story makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I completely agree. I don't think the Tyrells would have a problem lying to Cersei. It's more plausible that they bought Aurane Waters off with money and part of a fleet. Loras getting mortally injured - and losing 1000 men- on an island that was already supposed to be lightly held doesn't make sense but it does sound like something you'd tell someone that doesn't know anything about wars. Particularly, if the person you're telling isn't wise enough to ask if that story makes sense.Except Kevan believes the story too and he knows about fighting wars. To fool the entire court for around a month just does not seem possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissa Nymeros Martell Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Except Kevan believes the story too and he knows about fighting wars. To fool the entire court for around a month just does not seem possible.Their court is a mess and the Tyrells are more powerful than they appear. Everyone was pretty distracted at this point. I think it's possible. It's not like they have twitter. Information is sparse and unreliable. A month doesn't seem like that much time to be overly concerned. Particularly if the few "reports" and "letters" you hear back say the corroborates the initial story. Could Loras hide forever? No. For a while.. sure. We know that Littlefinger and Varys were counting on Cersi's epic fail in ruling the kingdom. The Tyrells could have been expecting the same thing and have been planning accordingly. Additionally, Varys has been a major source of information in the kingdom in the past. Now that he's no longer "on Team Lannister" who knows what that did to the information flow in the kingdom. There are a lot of "unknown variables". Enough to at least concede that there's reasonable doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Taxman Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 The Tyrells are as powerful as Marg and Olenna takes them. Idk if it's because it's Cersei's POV, but Mace Tyrell strikes me as a bumbling baboon. Perhaps it's all an act who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Forel's Fro Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 The Tyrells are as powerful as Marg and Olenna takes them. Idk if it's because it's Cersei's POV, but Mace Tyrell strikes me as a bumbling baboon. Perhaps it's all an act who knows.I agree, QoT seems very smart but I feel like this is like Robb and Cat she can give him all the great advice she wants but when you're The Lord you do what you want and I think both mace's bafoonery and loras his fav sons acts of trying to mark his name in history will be their end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Taxman Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 I agree, QoT seems very smart but I feel like this is like Robb and Cat she can give him all the great advice she wants but when you're The Lord you do what you want and I think both mace's bafoonery and loras his fav sons acts of trying to mark his name in history will be their end.Agreed although I think it's quite insulting you compared Cat to QoT. Cat will forever be remembered for releasing Jamie and fucking Robb up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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