Foreshadowing from the Burning of the Seven (long post)

[nara]

I was reading the Davos POV in A Clash of Kings that describes the burning of the Seven, and I wondered if there was any foreshadowing in the way the Seven were described.

Here are the relevant quotes:

“They were all afire now, Maid and Mother, Warrior and Smith, the Crone with her pearl eyes and the Father with his gilded bead; even the Stranger, carved to look more animal than human.”

And a little later.

“The Maiden lay athwart the Warrior, her arms widespread as if to embrace him. The Mother seemed almost to shudder as the flames came licking up her face. A longsword had been thrust though her heart, and its leader grip was alive with flame. The Father was on the bottom, the First to fall. Davos watched the hand of the Stranger writhe and curl as the fingers blackened and fell away one by one, reduced to so much glowing charcoal.”

There have been several discussions about who in ASOIAF represents each of the Seven, but I thought more specifically about the descriptions.

• Father being the first to fall could apply to Ned (whose death marked the beginning of ruin for his family), in which case it’s not really a prediction but a parallel. However, it’s the similarity between the Father and Ned that alerted me to the potential foreshadowing from this passage.
  
  • It could also apply to Robert (whose death preceded the slaughter of his bastards).
    
  • It applies less well to Tywin because Joffrey died before him, but it could work there too.
    

  [*]Maiden embracing the Warrior could easily be a prediction about romance for Brienne/Jaime or Sansa/Sandor.

  • It could also apply to Jeyne/Robb, but I think it’s less likely
    

Here’s where I think it gets interesting…

• Mother with a sword through her heart could suggest that Nissa Nissa is a mother. Now, there are really only two mothers left standing—Cersei and Dany (Mother of Dragons)
  
  • If Nissa Nissa is Azor Ahai’s mother specifically, that suggest that Myrcella, Tommen, or one of the Dragons is Azor Ahai.
    
  • If Nissa Nissa is just A mother, than there are plenty of options for Azor Ahai (which are covered in other threads, so I won’t elaborate).
    
  • Either way, I think this is clearly pointing to one of these two women being Nissa Nissa
    

  [*]Stranger looking more animal than human may suggest a warg—Jon, Arya, or Bran—who brings death and horror to Westeros.

  • Arya is the best positioned to be a bringer of death, given the number of people she’s killed and her Faceless Man training
    
  • Bran’s training with the COTF could also be taking him to the dark side
    
  • Jon is the least likely of the three.
    

So, do you think this is foreshadowing or am I reading something into nothing? BTW, I tried searching for this topic and couldn’t find anything, so let me know if it’s discussed elsewhere.

[N/A]

well, this is interesting to say the least (and this isn't long at all)

i like the parallel between Ned and the father because he just fits it as if he was carved for it

as for Nissa Nissa, i just don't like Dany and would like to see her go away but not in a heroic

and i don't think Nissa Nissa is a mother (not much foreshadowing IMO) and a Lanister as AAR is like Ramsy being TPTWP (they are the same person btw)

i think Nissa Nissa is Arya (that doesn't mean i like it)

i like your post it's interesting and worth the thought :thumbsup:

[Morienthar]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/91773-the-starks-might-keep-the-old-gods/

I did the same thing a while ago,But I see it as foreshadowing for the starks more than the AAR and Nissa Nissa bits,Only because the Sword Stannis pulled isn't Lightbringer and he isn't Azor Ahai.

[Roadside Rose]

Stranger's face carved to represent an animal - best represents the Hound. He was called 'Joffrey's dog'.

The Stranger God also has a half-human face.

I have a theory about the Seven Gods guiding Arya. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/92826-the-seven-guiding-arya/

And the Mother dying could foreshadow Lady Stoneheart's death too.

[N/A]

http://asoiaf.wester...p-the-old-gods/

I did the same thing a while ago,But I see it as foreshadowing for the starks more than the AAR and Nissa Nissa bits,Only because the Sword Stannis pulled isn't Lightbringer and he isn't Azor Ahai.

never caught that thread (i sleep a lot)

[Roadside Rose]

Maiden embracing the Warrior seems a good parallel for Brienne/Jaime - if it foreshadows how they are going to die.

The TV show did use this for Talisa/Robb's death.

But there is foreshadowing in this scene.

[HoboJed]

I have long thought that Jaime and Brienne are The Warrior and The Maiden, and when I re-read this chapter recently I had to smile at "The Maiden lay athwart the Warrior, her arms widespread as if to embrace him". :)

As for The Father... it could be Eddard, but I suspect that Stannis is actually The Father, as he fits the character of The Father more than even Eddard.

You place Jon as the least likely to be The Stranger, but "Davos watched the hand of the Stranger writhe and curl as the fingers blackened and fell away one by one, reduced to so much glowing charcoal." seems to me like a pretty strong hint that it is Jon as it mirrors the burning of his hand (which gets mentioned way too much to not be relevant). I was thinking Arya was The Stranger, but thinking about it, she seems to be more likely to be The "evil" Stranger (check out my theory of a good seven and a bad seven to get a better understanding of what that means) as her focus on death isn't about release, it is more to do with revenge.

[nara]

I have long thought that Jaime and Brienne are The Warrior and The Maiden, and when I re-read this chapter recently I had to smile at "The Maiden lay athwart the Warrior, her arms widespread as if to embrace him". :)

As for The Father... it could be Eddard, but I suspect that Stannis is actually The Father, as he fits the character of The Father more than even Eddard.

You place Jon as the least likely to be The Stranger, but "Davos watched the hand of the Stranger writhe and curl as the fingers blackened and fell away one by one, reduced to so much glowing charcoal." seems to me like a pretty strong hint that it is Jon as it mirrors the burning of his hand (which gets mentioned way too much to not be relevant). I was thinking Arya was The Stranger, but thinking about it, she seems to be more likely to be The "evil" Stranger (check out my theory of a good seven and a bad seven to get a better understanding of what that means) as her focus on death isn't about release, it is more to do with revenge.

Great point about the hand. will check out your post.

[Lala]

Wonderful OP! I'd mused about this briefly, but never really fully thought it through. The analysis is interesting and certainly persuasive.

[nara]

Wonderful OP! I'd mused about this briefly, but never really fully thought it through. The analysis is interesting and certainly persuasive.

Thanks!

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Whith such an amount of characters in almost all typical social positions, it is obvious that anything happening to such architypical representatives as the 7 would bear parallels to some characters without any special intent of the author.

[HoboJed]

Whith such an amount of characters in almost all typical social positions, it is obvious that anything happening to such architypical representatives as the 7 would bear parallels to some characters without any special intent of the author.

I can see where you are coming from, but Arya has become incredibly like The Stranger, and The Stranger isn't exactly archetypal. Other than that, there are tons of hints throughout the books (particularly in SoS and FfC) that link characters to one of the aspects (mainly Dany, Jaime and Brienne), not to mention an underlying theme that those who match an aspect aren't what you would expect (warrior who lost his sword hand, a mother who can't bear children, etc).

Now it is possible that the seven are meaningless in the asoiaf world, but I'm convinced it is an intentional theme put there by GRRM.

[Know Nothing Jon Snow]

This is a good catch. It would seem the GRRM is inviting us to look into the flames as the Red Preists do. My guess is that the Stranger would represent Theon Greyjoy/Reek. Slowly he has been losing his fingers one by one. A friend of mine recently mentioned if there is one person who deserves the gift of mercy it was him. Theon did also say to the Hooded man that the gods were not done with him.

[nara]

This is a good catch. It would seem the GRRM is inviting us to look into the flames as the Red Preists do. My guess is that the Stranger would represent Theon Greyjoy/Reek. Slowly he has been losing his fingers one by one. A friend of mine recently mentioned if there is one person who deserves the gift of mercy it was him. Theon did also say to the Hooded man that the gods were not done with him.

Theon! That's a good observation. I'd forgotten about his fingers...or my brain tried to block out the horrors he's faced. Certainly, the man he is now is a stranger to everyone who knew him in AGOT.