Old Nan

[mindchap]

Nice theory but two problems:

• The North isn't very fond of courtly rituals, fancy culture (singers), tourneys and a lot of other things that would pass as entertainment. They do get the occasional singer, fool or other entertainment provider at Winterfell but rarely. Tanselle too-tall was a Dornish woman in a Dornish group of puppeteers. So it's fairly unlikely that they travel all the way to the North in the hope that the North may just be happy to feed a puppeteers troupe when they arrive. And it is equally unlikely that Lord Beron Stark, who's just about to go to war against the Ironborns calls on a Dornish pupeteer troupe (that's managed to insult a mad Targaryen) to travel all across the country for amusement. Not impossible but unlikely.
  
• House Tarth already existed as House Tarth before Dunc and Egg teamed up. (http://awoiaf.wester...php/House_Tarth Quentyn Tarth participating at Ashford Tourney.) So it's fairly unlikely that Tarth was taken from the Tarth's, given to Dunc and returned to the Tarth's later. Also, Tarth is part of the Stormlands so the Targaryens would have to be careful not to offend the Stormlords too much when redistributing their lands. After all, the Baratheons of that time were still their (probably best) allies.
  

So you don't think GRRM was talking about Brienne?

D&E Spoiler

Also we really have no idea when Dunk and Egg make it to Winterfell, so it could be after the Starks and Lannisters have teamed up against the Ironborn. Old Nan make the comment to Bran that "all crows are liars" when he tells her about his dream, which makes it seem to me that her fling was with a Black Brother.

[Rahgh Neqaj]

So you don't think GRRM was talking about Brienne?

There has to be a reason why there was one of Dunk's shields in Tarth but I doubt very much that Tarth was given to him. The descendant of Dunk that GRRM was talking about is either Hodor (based on the girl kissing a really large man who's probably Dunk) or Brienne (based on the shield) or both. Eitherway, my guess is that he either married into the line (Tarth) / old Nan (Winterfell) at some point before joining the Kings Guard or had an illegitimate offspring.

In case he married Old Nan I'd be extremely surprised for him to join the KG afterwards - I doubt whether he could've said no to Egg but I doubt Egg would have asked a married Dunk to leave his wife behind. In case of marrying into the Tarth line, I could imagine that his wife either died before he joined the KG or that the family didn't want to have a hedge knight married to their daughter so Egg made a deal: Dunk joins the KG, (honour!) and the family accepts his offspring into the line of inheritance. But in both cases it might just as well be illegitimate. In Old Nan's case probably no one (except Old Nan and the children) bothered, in the Tarth case the mother would have to be a woman married to a Tarth.

[Rooghar Targaryen]

http://asoiaf.wester...d-5-she-wolves/

We had a fun time getting the Stark line in order a few weeks back and we came to a few side conclusions on 'Old' Nan.

Nan came to Winterfell to be a wetnurse for a Stark child that's mother died during childbirth. Edwyle Stark's (Eddard's Grandfather) brother Bran was born with his mother dying from childbirth. Also, Bran is said to have died from a 'Summer Chill" at age 3, which must have came after the Great Spring Sickness that happened in 209 AL. So it is safe to assume Nan came to Winterfell during the 210-215ish time period. She would have been around 13-18 years old (if she was 100 at the beginning of GOT) and Dunk would have been in Winterfell around that time too.

She is Hodor's Great Grandmother. Which follows the timeline very nice of Hodor's unnamed "grandparent" being born around the time Edwyle Stark was born and Hodor's "Mother/Father" being born around the same time as Rickard Stark and Hodor being born around the same time as Brandon or Eddard Stark. Definitely not saying Hodor is of the Stark blood, just using their timeline to show Nan as Great-grandparent works out in book time. Btw Hodor's real name is Walder.

Also, Nan must have recently had a child for her to be acting as a wetnurse for Bran (Edwyle's Brother), so that is up for speculation lol. She is skinny in the vision Bran has of her kissing Dunk.

Old Nan Timeline:

-Nan born 195ish

-Nan gets pregnant from some dude pretty young (Could be a fling with a Night's Watch guy, makes her think "All Crows are Liars")

-Nan has a baby, starts producing milk able to be a wetnurse

-Nan goes to Winterfell to be a wetnurse because Edwyle and Bran Stark's mother died during childbirth (210ish)

-Nan becomes Bran's wetnurse

-Dunk comes to Winterfell, to answer Lord Beron Stark's call for arms during the Greyjoy invasion in 213 AL

-Dunk does the dirty with Nan->>>>>>>>HODOR

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

@mindchap- I was interested in your interpretation of the girl in the vision so I went back to the original description of Tanselle in the Hedge Knight:

a tall drink of water, with the olive skin and black hair of Dorne. She was slim as a lance with no breasts to speak of, but Dunk liked her face...

Compare to the girl in Bran's vision:

a brown haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor

Later in Hedge Knight Dunk remarks that Tanselle is "a head shorter" than he is, which IMO would mean she would not have to stand on the tips of her toes to kiss him...

Also, I really think that the comparison to Hodor is meant to draw our attention to the similarity between Dunk and Hodor (who we know to be Nan's great-grandson) In the end, I agree in essence with @Rooghar Targaryen's timeline above. Nan came to Winterfell around the same time we believe Dunk & Egg made it there, to be a wet nurse for young Brandon Stark. Whether she had a child prior to meeting Dunk or whether he fathered the child that enable her to fulfill that role is up for debate, IMO. (Since Bran's visions appear to go backwards in time, and I believe the pregnant woman is Beron Stark's wife, it's certainly possible that Dunk fathered Nan's first child) In either case, remember that she had "sons" according to Lord Eddard, so her feelings about the men of the NW may be related to a completely separate relationship that led to a child.

I think it's quite possible that Dunk did have a girl child with Tanselle who later went on to marry into House Tarth. When reading the descriptions of Tanselle in Hedge Knight, I was struck by the fact that her height (at head shorter than Dunk who tops 7'- she must be well over 6' tall) is just about exactly the height ascribed to Brienne of Tarth by GRRM:

Brienne is well over six feet tall, but not close to seven, no. Just off the top of my head, I would say Brienne is taller than Renly and Jaime and significantly heavier than either, but nowhere near the size of Gregor Clegane, who is the true giant in the series. Shorter than Hodor and the Greatjon, maybe a bit shorter than the Hound, maybe roughly the same height as Robert

So I think I can get behind the latter part of your theory- Tanselle+Dunk--> Tarth, and maybe even the connection with the falling star. (Although while I was musing about the star connection I was thinking how the Evenstar is quite different from a shooting star, which is actually a comet or meteorite... which led to some interesting speculation on my part about Brienne's possible connection to the "bleeding star" ;))

At any rate, I think there's room to speculate about two Dunk descendants here (both of whom have been described as "thick as a castle wall", iirc)

[A Crow Come Over]

I always thought that Old Nan was part of the wilding host that came south with Raymund Redbeard and was assimilated into the Stark household much like Osha.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Old Nan- A rather queer old woman who tells children fairytales that are rather real....OMG ...that sounds like my grandma :o

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I always thought that Old Nan was part of the wilding host that came south with Raymund Redbeard and was assimilated into the Stark household much like Osha.

hmm... that would explain her many stories and her hatred of the NW.

[King of the Wall]

Wow nice post Rhoogar Targaryen. The timeline is very solid.

I don't thik Old Nan is a wildling. Eventhough she has a vast knowledge of nothern history through her stories, she always represents those living beyond the Wall as monters and savages. More than once she usue the term "drinking bloo from a skull", her description of giants are not accurate, among other things. This tells that Old Nan must have heard these stories herself while growing up.

The stories make the listener fear and suspect anything that's from beyond the Wall, and so I think Old Nan is from some place very close to the Wall, where women are often stolen due to wildling raids. If Old Nan was from beyond the Wall I don't think she would make such a monster-like image of Wildlings, even if she didn't like her origins. The lore related to the Last Hero and the Long Night would also be better preserved on the locations near to the Wall itself, rather than on southern places where they might be forgotten. The closeness to the Wall also makes it easier for her to have an affair with a man of the Night's Watch and then going to Winterfell. If she were a Wildling she would have to have an affair with a ranger and then cross the Wall while pregnant, for whatever the reason.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Yes this^^ I think Nan is from a mountain clan. Maybe she was asked as a wet nurse because of the Flint connection. I do think the time line is very plausible though. Maybe she was asked to wet nurse due to having a NW bastard. Maybe she is from Moletown? (not saying a whore just from there or the Gift, when did it get abandoned?

[mindchap]

@mindchap- I was interested in your interpretation of the girl in the vision so I went back to the original description of Tanselle in the Hedge Knight:

Compare to the girl in Bran's vision:

Later in Hedge Knight Dunk remarks that Tanselle is "a head shorter" than he is, which IMO would mean she would not have to stand on the tips of her toes to kiss him...

Also, I really think that the comparison to Hodor is meant to draw our attention to the similarity between Dunk and Hodor (who we know to be Nan's great-grandson) In the end, I agree in essence with @Rooghar Targaryen's timeline above. Nan came to Winterfell around the same time we believe Dunk & Egg made it there, to be a wet nurse for young Brandon Stark. Whether she had a child prior to meeting Dunk or whether he fathered the child that enable her to fulfill that role is up for debate, IMO. (Since Bran's visions appear to go backwards in time, and I believe the pregnant woman is Beron Stark's wife, it's certainly possible that Dunk fathered Nan's first child) In either case, remember that she had "sons" according to Lord Eddard, so her feelings about the men of the NW may be related to a completely separate relationship that led to a child.

I think it's quite possible that Dunk did have a girl child with Tanselle who later went on to marry into House Tarth. When reading the descriptions of Tanselle in Hedge Knight, I was struck by the fact that her height (at head shorter than Dunk who tops 7'- she must be well over 6' tall) is just about exactly the height ascribed to Brienne of Tarth by GRRM:

So I think I can get behind the latter part of your theory- Tanselle+Dunk--> Tarth, and maybe even the connection with the falling star. (Although while I was musing about the star connection I was thinking how the Evenstar is quite different from a shooting star, which is actually a comet or meteorite... which led to some interesting speculation on my part about Brienne's possible connection to the "bleeding star" ;))

At any rate, I think there's room to speculate about two Dunk descendants here (both of whom have been described as "thick as a castle wall", iirc)

I like that, I just can't see Dunk leaving a wife, much less a bastard, anywhere unless he just never found out about it. I have a feeling there will be even more tragedy in the coming D&E tales. We already know that the whole thing ends in tragedy but now I have to think something happens to Tansy as well.

edt: Wasn't it mentioned that Nan had a husband at some point though?

[mindchap]

Just going through the SSMs and found these tidbits about Old Nan, thought I'd post them here in case anyone's interested:

...came back to the tale that Old Nan was telling Bran about the Long Night and the last hero who went to find the Children of the Forest. Right at the scariest point of that story within a story Maester Luwin barged in, and the tale was never finished.

Did the last hero ever find the Children of the Forest? What stopped the advance of the Others? Is there any relationship between the Children of the Forest and the Others?

I realize we will most likely see more of the Others later on, but that old yarn is very interesting and I don't think Old Nan is still around to finish it. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

I'm afraid these are the sorts of questions that I will be answering in the books to come, rather than divulging via email.

If you enjoy speculating about this stuff with other fans, however, check out the site at http://asoiaf.westeros.org/

And for those who wonder if she's still alive:

But my brother points out that everyone from Winterfell is dead - I tell him that's not certain. We don't know what happened with Old Nan, for instance.

Most of the women and children from Winterfell are still alive, though they are not in a good place by any means.

*italics are questions the rest is GRRM