My Aegon Targaryen/Jon Snow Theory.

[jenerationx]

Does it really matter if Aegon's a fake and Jon's the real deal? When did blood ever determine who sat on the throne anyway?

What Aegon has:

Varys

Jon Connington

Dorne

An army

Stormsend

Targaryen features

What Jon has:

No connections

No army

Questionable parents

Stark features

Well, that's not strictly true. Jon actually has more connections than any character in the story, imho, but that's a different debate. Let's say that even if the above were completely true with no gray areas, that rather assumes that for the next 3,000 (or however many) pages that GRRM is going to write, all of that remains the same. I somehow doubt that's going to be the case, and there's been at least enough set up that there's some strong opinions that don't agree with your assessment. But time will tell, one way or another.

@J. Stargaryen, bless you for trying to fight the good fight, but really... if someone isn't convinced by now about R+L=J, they're just not gonna be. They're starting from such a vastly different standpoint. I agree with you that the arguments against it are far more contrived than the arguments for, but there you go.

[Aristogato]

As I said, if we get some more info that might discredit that Aegon is the child born of such relationship, I would then believe Jon was born of them two. I am convinced of most of the theory, only that most of the theory can also be applied for Aegon. You probably missed the part when Is aid this Aegon might not be the true Aegon but his younger bastard brother, born by Rhaegar and Lyanna.

I too was firmly convinced of R+L=J until the fifth book.

[Prince of the Green]

Sorry, but I don't think so. I think there's a greater chance Darkstar could be Jon's twin than there is that Jon is the bastard son of Brandon and Ashara. And the same goes for (f)Aegon being the bastard son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I honestly can't see it.

The reason Connington sees Rhaegar in Young Griff is because that's what he wants to see, no other reason. I think, along the same vein, that it explains much of the relationship between Jon and Arya, though, Jon is obviously unaware of the link there.

[Aristogato]

Hm, so because Jon is Lya's child and Arya resembles her they have a good, dynamic relationship? Can't the explanation be that Arya being more keen to do boy's stuff simply gets better with Jon, and all the things they share in common, without it really depending on who was born to whom and physical appearance? That is too romanticized to my liking. Robb looks like Cat and he doesn't hate Jon, and thinks more like Ned than Edmure, Brynden or Catelyn Tully, So I think that is actually seeing what you want to see, no offence.

Connington gave me no hint of him being deceiving himself, or clutching to false hopes, he even seems suspicious and aware of most things around him.

[Prince of the Green]

As I said, if we get some more info that might discredit that Aegon is the child born of such relationship, I would then believe Jon was born of them two. I am convinced of most of the theory, only that most of the theory can also be applied for Aegon. You probably missed the part when Is aid this Aegon might not be the true Aegon but his younger bastard brother, born by Rhaegar and Lyanna.

I too was firmly convinced of R+L=J until the fifth book.

I bolded the above part for emphasis simply to state that GRRM has mentioned his dislike for characters who meet the criteria for deus ex machina, that is, characters that arrive before the final act seemingly out of nowhere to save the realm.

I think you take the notion of coloring and looks too seriously as a factor that Jon couldn't possibly be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. Jon has Stark coloring and, aside from some very clear instances of 'wolf's blood' moments (or 'waking the dragon,' whichever one might prefer), his mannerisms all closely mirror those of Rhaegar.

You know, some people (myself among them) believe that Aegon is actually the son of Illyrio and a Lysene pillowhouse worker named Serra, a proposed female descendant of the Blackfyre line.

It is still a theory of mine that Aegon Targaryen, Rhaegar's son by Elia Martell of Dorne, was slain by the hands of someone chosen by Varys. Taken from his mother's arms with a promise of protection, he was drowned somewhere in the city or in the Narrow Sea, and was, sadly, the first attempt at forging Lightbringer, but that is another debate for a different topic.

[J. Stargaryen]

How long do you think Sansa would be unnoticed? Varys knows Littlefinger has no natural born daughter. I bet he will keep an eye on him later if he already hasn't been. Martin stated the date of birth of Jon Snow?¹ Please give me a link to that, that would help a lot.

Ned is always dodgy when asked about Snow's parents, that doesn't mean he does not mean to tell him, he even says he will eventually. As I said, maybe he didn't tell him because it's a sensible issue, for a fourteen year old boy, you know. But, of course, of all the possibilities he surely doesn't tell him because he is a royal bastard, and him knowing that would change everything. I believe something gone bad with his mother or father is a better excuse. I mean, is it really that important that he doesn't know he is Rhaegar's child?² If Ned loves and trusts Catelyn, why not telling her at least,³ so she wouldn't bully Jon? And so on, I could really use the same arguments on the R+L=J theory.

Of course I am the only one trying stating this theory, Aegon was recently introduced to the audience, Jon's theory has been debated over quite some years. Most people made poor excuses as why he would be a mummer dragon,⁴ while I am actually using most of the R+L=J, at least the most solid of it, but rather thinking that R+L=A. You haven't yet refuted in any way that Aegon can't be a child of that couple, your only argument against it is that you believe that Jon was conceived by them.⁵ Please, tell me how he can be a mummer's dragon threatening Dany's claim while also discrediting all the arguments that are giving on the first link I posted.

As I said, the theory was mainly an Aegon theory, but you insist on the impossibility due to some small and vague hints that Jon is the child of that couple (Because the hints that there was a child could also be used for Aegon, which are the more factuals I was referring too, the only probable hint you have for Jon is the blue rose on the wall, and it is still very vague).

If you consider for a moment Aegon being the child of that union, most of the things stated about him making sense, then you can clearly see there are thousands of possibilities for Jon's parenthood, as this wouldn't deny the fact Rhaegar and Lyanna had a child.

Now, with all respect, no one knows who Jon Snows parents are,⁶ so we can't refute our arguments at all in most cases, specially when we are speculating about what might have happened if someone might have had some hair coloring or another. The R+L=J remains a theory until it's either proven or not, as well as this theory. I am simply giving what I believe to be reasonable arguments that lead me to believe the other possibilities, We are both guessing at prophecies, after all, and most of the textual elements you refer too would be contemplated in mine, only that considered towards another guy, Aegon. The ones that would point out Jon specifically as the result of L+R are almost none, and very speculative at least. She could had miscarried as well, which tends to give the mother a hard time too. So, I invite you to give me solid information that would refute my arguments, which are not mostly based on who is Jon's mother, but why would Aegon not fit that hole just as well, why does Lyanna HAVE to be Jon's mother and none other can, even if she had another child we don't know about or miscarried.

Besides, for your information, I have read a lot on R+L=J theory, and none of it has still deluded me on this other possibility. I do believe they had a child, that is what I state, but reading the fifth book a couple of times made me change my mind on who that child was.

1) There is a link in the Citadel's essay to a SSM, but here it is again: http://www.westeros..../SSM/Entry/1040

2) Yes! It's very important, especially if Jon is legitimate, which a lot of us believe he is. In that case, Jon could very well press his claim to the Iron Throne. This would mean war with Ned's best friend, King Robert.

3) In Eddard VIII Ned thinks to himself: Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust.

4) Do you mean Jon as the mummer's dragon? I'm not sure I'm familiar with that theory. The most popular interpretation of "mummer's dragon" is that it refers to Young Griff/(f)Aegon.

5) It's not my job to prove that YG isn't R&L's son. You're the one proposing that idea, so the onus is on you to make the case.

6) This simply isn't true. Aside from GRRM, I believe some of his publishers and editors know. At least five people involved with the HBO show know: Benioff, Weiss, Cogman, Sean Bean and Alfie Allen. Aside from that, a bunch of people on the internet know. :)

---

jenerationx,

thanks, but I don't mind stepping in and taking the load off of the likes of Ygrain every now and then. :)

[Aristogato]

I bolded the above part for emphasis simply to state that GRRM has mentioned his dislike for characters who meet the criteria for deus ex machina, that is, characters that arrive before the final act seemingly out of nowhere to save the realm.

I think you take the notion of coloring and looks too seriously as a factor that Jon couldn't possibly be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son. Jon has Stark coloring and, aside from some very clear instances of 'wolf's blood' moments (or 'waking the dragon,' whichever one might prefer), his mannerisms all closely mirror those of Rhaegar.

You know, some people (myself among them) believe that Aegon is actually the son of Illyrio and a Lysene pillowhouse worker named Serra, a proposed female descendant of the Blackfyre line.

It is still a theory of mine that Aegon Targaryen, Rhaegar's son by Elia Martell of Dorne, was slain by the hands of someone chosen by Varys. Taken from his mother's arms with a promise of protection, he was drowned somewhere in the city or in the Narrow Sea, and was, sadly, the first attempt at forging Lightbringer, but that is another debate for a different topic.

It's not just coloring, in fact, that is what I'm stating, son can look like his father even if they don't share the same coloring. I am aware of the many theories that place Aegon as a Blackfyre but they don't make much sense to me for the reasons stated on the link I shared at the beginning of the thread.

Jon, sadly, has no way of being legitimate even if R+L=J is true, Lyanna was bethroded and Rhaegar was married in the light of the seven, monogamous gods those ones.Best thing about Martin is that really few people would care about him being legitimate or not, he has no dragons of his own, nor Aegon's army, and most likely he will remain dead. Joffrey and Tommen are widely known bastards, or of doubtful parentage for those who are not sure, yet few people flock to Stannis.

The secret he hides could also be Aegon being Lya's child and being alive, as I said, most things work for both Jon and Aegon.

I meant Aegon as a mummer dragon.

I am stating a theory, for my theory not to be plausible, the only argument you have against it (J.Stargaryen) is that all evidence points at Jon being born out of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Not that they had a child, or that Ned keeps a dark secret, which match Aegon as well as I said countless times, but that child has to be Jon and no-one else.

And, it is interesting Martin points out Ashara didn't spend all her lifetime at Starfall too, but as I said, Snow is not my primary target here.

[J. Stargaryen]

It's not just coloring, in fact, that is what I'm stating, son can look like his father even if they don't share the same coloring. I am aware of the many theories that place Aegon as a Blackfyre but they don't make much sense to me for the reasons stated on the link I shared at the beginning of the thread.

Jon, sadly, has no way of being legitimate even if R+L=J is true, Lyanna was bethroded and Rhaegar was married in the light of the seven, monogamous gods those ones.Best thing about Martin is that really few people would care about him being legitimate or not, he has no dragons of his own, nor Aegon's army, and most likely he will remain dead. Joffrey and Tommen are widely known bastards, or of doubtful parentage for those who are not sure, yet few people flock to Stannis.

The secret he hides could also be Aegon being Lya's child and being alive, as I said, most things work for both Jon and Aegon.

I meant Aegon as a mummer dragon.

I am stating a theory, for my theory not to be plausible, the only argument you have against it (J.Stargaryen) is that all evidence points at Jon being born out of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Not that they had a child, or that Ned keeps a dark secret, which match Aegon as well as I said countless times, but that child has to be Jon and no-one else.

And, it is interesting Martin points out Ashara didn't spend all her lifetime at Starfall too, but as I said, Snow is not my primary target here.

This isn't true either. The Targaryens practiced both incest and polygamy after their "conversion" to the Faith of the Seven. Noteworthy is that the Faith Militant Uprising was over the practice of incest, which they considered a sin. Polygamy was never the issue.

Well that's a pretty strong argument, don't you think? I mean if all the evidence points towards R+L=J, then R+L=A can hardly be true. And as far as what you've said multiple times, it's not really relevant. What's relevant is what you can prove, at least circumstantially.

[Ygrain]

Nice, but I don't really know if Ashara is Lemore, the thing is, we should consider if Tyrion would had met Ashara when he was younger at a tourney or anything, if he was ever allowed to assist by Tywin. If he never met her, well, maybe, who knows.

The people who believe Jon is Lyanna's son don't understand eye coloring becomes noticeable at some months of birth. Also, he could had resembled Rhaegar just as well, don't tell me he looked into a new-born babe and said "Oh, my, he has all the looks from her mother". I wonder what excuse would he make when someone asked him why his bastard son was purple eyed, silver haired. "Yeah, there was this lysene woman no man of the army saw me with" makes perfect sense.

I wonder very much how the dark eye colouring works, because my son had very dark brown, almost black, eyes since day 1 and it hasn't changed in the slightest. Jon has very dark grey, almost black eyes. To my best knowledge, judging by friends' kids, the colour that changes is rather improminent grey-blue-green, which eventually turned out brown or blue.

- But, as J.Stargaryen says, the colouring is really a non-issue as the Daynes have the Valyrian colouring and Ned's visit to Starfall is widely known.

thanks, but I don't mind stepping in and taking the load off of the likes of Ygrain every now and then. :)

You're a darling :-)

Jon, sadly, has no way of being legitimate even if R+L=J is true, Lyanna was bethroded and Rhaegar was married in the light of the seven, monogamous gods those ones.Best thing about Martin is that really few people would care about him being legitimate or not, he has no dragons of his own, nor Aegon's army, and most likely he will remain dead. Joffrey and Tommen are widely known bastards, or of doubtful parentage for those who are not sure, yet few people flock to Stannis.

The secret he hides could also be Aegon being Lya's child and being alive, as I said, most things work for both Jon and Aegon.

I meant Aegon as a mummer dragon.

I am stating a theory, for my theory not to be plausible, the only argument you have against it (J.Stargaryen) is that all evidence points at Jon being born out of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Not that they had a child, or that Ned keeps a dark secret, which match Aegon as well as I said countless times, but that child has to be Jon and no-one else.

1) We do see examples of old god followers among the wildlings (and not just Craster), and a notable lack of disapproval on behalf of those encountering them, both old and new god followers. We don't get a single comment on Aegon marrying both his sisters as unacceptable, but on the other hand we have multiple how Targs are above the laws and a law unto themselves. We don't have a single statement from GRRM that polygamy is no longer possible.

2) To say with GRRM: "You think he is dead?" Then why do we have the prologue about skinchangers entering the animal upon their death, myth of rebirth and a priestess of the religion capable to raise people from the dead in the convenient location?

3)Ned has zero connection to Aegon, therefore can hardly say that he has been living lies for fourteen years or paid some price to keep his promises to Lyanna if he just sent him away

4) There is not exactly an abundance of pivotal heroes with mysterious background

His father still might be Ned by any other woman, there are plenty of those in Westeros. The "Nor Ned nor Brandon being Jon's dad" theory is based on Rhaegar and Lyanna having a child. Well, I'm telling you there is another possibility for the boy rather than just being Jon Snow, but people want it so hard. Aegon as Rhaegar's bastard makes sense for all we have seen, the most factual prophecies and events. In fact, Snow can still be Azor Ahai while Aegon would be the Prince that was promised, born of Ice and Fire, and according to Varys, the kind of King everyone would want. Only that he has a weaker claim than his aunt this way, making him the mummer.

Besides, you still underestimate Varys, the man has spies everywhere, and claiming that he doesn't know if Jon Snow is a bastard Targaryen goes against what we know of him. He has spies everywhere, specially at court, confidants in all circles. If Rhaegar dispatched the KG to protect his son and beloved, some of the men following Rhaegar in battle would had known they only kept one member of his guard (Selmy) among their ranks, and spoke about that later. The absence of those three wouldn't had gone unnoticed. And Varys not noticing the prince has taken a lover to a tower, her belly getting bigger each month, he would had been curious at least.

A) A weaker claim doesn't make the claimant a false one. Besides, as a son of Rhaegar, no matter which, Aegon has a stronger claim than Dany

B) There is no way you can plant spies if you don't know where the people you want to spy on went in the first place and if they are staying in a secluded location keeping only a small company.

[Aristogato]

In Martin's world, bastards only have a claim if they are legitimized by a Lord Paramount or the King, else, everyone in their family goes first, even relatives by marriage. Dany has a stronger claim than Aegon, unless he is Elia's trueborn son.

Varys knows where Littlefinger is, it's no secret, and the courtiers at the Eyre are plenty, and even more the servants.

The Daynes have Stone Dornish coloring with purple eyes, not silvery hair, but blonde or dark hair. Martin has stated they have no Valyrian connections, yet they have purple eyes. Don't know if it's the fourth or third time I've said it, coloring doesn't matter much, but facial features do. Jon could had been the darker image of Rhaegar nonetheless, you don't need to have the same color of eyes and hair to clearly resemble one of your parents. And yes, silver hair would have been a teller, because Daynes don't have that, they have pale blonde, like some Stone Dornishmen do.

Lack of disapproval? Craster is not frowned upon for incest and polygamy? the Targaryens were forced in a faith militant uprising to submit to most Andal customs, and that implies no polygamy. If not there would be a lot more Freys :P But really, the Targaryens could only get away with marrying between siblings, which is still frowned upon (sister fucking tradition, as King Robert would call it).

Yes, maybe Jon will revive, maybe he will carry on inside Ghost. I would be a little frustrated and disappointed if he revives, finds out somehow that he is a Targaryen bastard and people magically flock to him, and he marries Dany because death released him from his vows. That is very, very Deus Ex, but that's just me, might as well happen.

[The Taxman]

Please learn to utilize paragraphs... and from what I was able to read through that mumble wall of text, I don't think Varys was switching Lyanna's baby.

[Aristogato]

Please learn to utilize paragraphs... and from what I was able to read through that mumble wall of text, I don't think Varys was switching Lyanna's baby.

He wouldn't have switched anyone's baby according to what I said, in any case shipping him east. And my paragraphs are good :)

[J. Stargaryen]

In Martin's world, bastards only have a claim if they are legitimized by a Lord Paramount or the King, else, everyone in their family goes first, even relatives by marriage. Dany has a stronger claim than Aegon, unless he is Elia's trueborn son.

Varys knows where Littlefinger is, it's no secret, and the courtiers at the Eyre are plenty, and even more the servants.

The Daynes have Stone Dornish coloring with purple eyes, not silvery hair, but blonde or dark hair. Martin has stated they have no Valyrian connections, yet they have purple eyes. Don't know if it's the fourth or third time I've said it, coloring doesn't matter much, but facial features do. Jon could had been the darker image of Rhaegar nonetheless, you don't need to have the same color of eyes and hair to clearly resemble one of your parents. And yes, silver hair would have been a teller, because Daynes don't have that, they have pale blonde, like some Stone Dornishmen do.¹

Lack of disapproval? Craster is not frowned upon for incest and polygamy?² the Targaryens were forced in a faith militant uprising to submit to most Andal customs, and that implies no polygamy.³ If not there would be a lot more Freys :P But really, the Targaryens could only get away with marrying between siblings, which is still frowned upon (sister fucking tradition, as King Robert would call it).

Yes, maybe Jon will revive, maybe he will carry on inside Ghost. I would be a little frustrated and disappointed if he revives, finds out somehow that he is a Targaryen bastard and people magically flock to him, and he marries Dany because death released him from his vows. That is very, very Deus Ex, but that's just me, might as well happen.

1) Darkstar has silver hair, with a black streak.

2) Craster is looked down upon not for polygamy, but for marrying his daughters.

3) You have it backwards; the Targaryens were forced to submit to nothing by the Faith Militant. It was the Faith Militant that was forced to disband by the Targaryens. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Faith_Militant_uprising

[Old-Growth]

The Targaryens kept intermarrying as they did in old Valyria, but they had to accept the impositions of the Andal faith over them. Ever since they landed and converted, they took one wife each, even in times when they needed to expand their dynasty.

They appear to have converted before the Conquest, and Maegor the Cruel had more than one wife at the same time.

[jenerationx]

Yes, maybe Jon will revive, maybe he will carry on inside Ghost. I would be a little frustrated and disappointed if he revives, finds out somehow that he is a Targaryen bastard and people magically flock to him, and he marries Dany because death released him from his vows. That is very, very Deus Ex, but that's just me, might as well happen.

Believing that Jon is a Targaryen (bastard or true born) is quite different from believing all that other stuff. They don't all go hand in hand. At the risk of rehashing old threads, there are a number of ways Jon could survive the stabbing without needing to warg into Ghost. Or even if that does come to pass, Martin forbid that he and Dany get married. *shudder*

It might be distasteful to you, or boring, or whatever, but it's not deus ex machina. There have been plenty of clues in the text foreshadowing this very thing; it didn't come out of nowhere because GRRM didn't know where else to take the story. The seeds have been planted there all along, if it's true, so regardless of if people like it or not, it is hardly fair to say that such an event would be a contrivance out of nowhere. Careful readers have been speculating about that since practically day one.

[Aristogato]

Hm, you got me with the Darkstar, my bad, but Craster is frowned upon by both, and the Targaryens had to adjust themselves to some faith of the seven traditions. People frown at them every time they defy tradition, but they oft did because they had dragons and no one would oppose them with those beasts.

http://awoiaf.wester...ex.php/Polygamy

Believing that Jon is a Targaryen (bastard or true born) is quite different from believing all that other stuff. They don't all go hand in hand. At the risk of rehashing old threads, there are a number of ways Jon could survive the stabbing without needing to warg into Ghost. Or even if that does come to pass, Martin forbid that he and Dany get married. *shudder*

It might be distasteful to you, or boring, or whatever, but it's not deus ex machina. There have been plenty of clues in the text foreshadowing this very thing; it didn't come out of nowhere because GRRM didn't know where else to take the story. The seeds have been planted there all along, if it's true, so regardless of if people like it or not, it is hardly fair to say that such an event would be a contrivance out of nowhere. Careful readers have been speculating about that since practically day one.

I know about the speculations, but I find it very out of context in the way that it's too bright for the darker set we have been given all this time, I am more prone to believe things will have a bad ending or a bittersweet one. Besides, it would be a little rushed too, with only two books get Dany solve some issues at the east, fly back to Westeros and marry Jon for some reason.

I wouldn't mind him being revived and fighting the others, but I think some people speculate too far ahead with too little.

[Ygrain]

Varys knows where Littlefinger is, it's no secret, and the courtiers at the Eyre are plenty, and even more the servants.

Was talking about ToJ, not Eyrie.

Lack of disapproval? Craster is not frowned upon for incest and polygamy? the Targaryens were forced in a faith militant uprising to submit to most Andal customs, and that implies no polygamy. If not there would be a lot more Freys :P But really, the Targaryens could only get away with marrying between siblings, which is still frowned upon (sister fucking tradition, as King Robert would call it).

If you can find a quote where Craster is bashed for multitude of wives, bring it up. It's incest he gets the flak for.

And, the Targ incest is not frowned upon - it is widely accepted that no such rules apply to the Targs while for everyone else, such a breach is impossible (this is basically what Cersei tells Jaime when he suggests that they should come out with their relationship - that this was possible only for the Targs)

Yes, maybe Jon will revive, maybe he will carry on inside Ghost. I would be a little frustrated and disappointed if he revives, finds out somehow that he is a Targaryen bastard and people magically flock to him, and he marries Dany because death released him from his vows. That is very, very Deus Ex, but that's just me, might as well happen.

This is actually mixing several issues together . Jon's survival is a separate matter from his Targ ancestry as well as from becoming a figurehead as well as from marrying Dany.

Hm, you got me with the Darkstar, my bad, but Craster is frowned upon by both, and the Targaryens had to adjust themselves to some faith of the seven traditions. People frown at them every time they defy tradition, but they oft did because they had dragons and no one would oppose them with those beasts.

http://awoiaf.wester...ex.php/Polygamy

Maegor the Cruel has multiple wives, from lines outside his own, so there was and is precedent. However, the extent to which the Targaryen kings could defy convention, the Faith, and the opinions of the other lords decreased markedly after they no longer had dragons. If you have a dragon, you can have as many wives as you want, and people are less likely to object

And the wiki page basically makes the same mistake as you. The relevant quote from Martin doesn't say at all that polygamy was entirely impossible without dragons, only that it would be more difficult to apply. There is no evidence that any king tried polygamy and was defied, or had to give up the idea entirely. Plus, at the end of day, the Targs were still able to defy the Faith and convention very much by being incestuous, which, unlike polygamy, has been many times labelled as a grave sin and unacceptable behaviour for anyone outside the Targ lineage.

[RhaenysBee]

I have thought about this too, in one of my Targaryen fan moments (just to make up any theory that'll put a Rhaegar heir on the Throne even if Aegon VI did not truly survive). I don't quite see why any of the Aegon/Jon theories is more likely than the other. I really have no idea, but I can't wait to see A Dream for Spring Epilogue (because I'm just sure we'll never know anything for sure before that - though I'm not sure whether we'll know anything for sure at all).

Some things to point out.

- Tywin and his men. If the babies was was dashed against a wall, it's problematic to check his eye-color. Also, ripping an infant from the hands of Rhaegar's wife should be proof enough for any man of the intelligence of Gregor Clegane or Amory Lorch. And I'm pretty sure Tywin Lannister is not the man to check the eyeballs of a broken baby skull.

- The point about Ned taking in Jon and not knowing if he'll have the Targareyn or Stark traits (given that R+L is indeed = J) - you bought me with this, it really is an R+L=J counter point. How would Ned explain a bastard with Targaryen silver hair and deep violet eyes? Though, if a baby is born with dark hair, it's not likely it'll turn light with time, so Ned could have known...

- As for baby switches, the whole Sam and Gilly and Mance Baby thing proves me just how very easy it is to switch two babies and the whole purpose of this episode just can't be trying to protect some wildling king's baby from Melisandre. There must be something else, something more important, such as foreshadowing or flashbackshadowing or whatever another more important baby switch.

- As for Aegon... so he's Illyrio's son? HOW would Illyrio have a son that looks like a Targaryen or Blackfyre, while he doesn't and his wife doesn't either.

[Ygrain]

- The point about Ned taking in Jon and not knowing if he'll have the Targareyn or Stark traits (given that R+L is indeed = J) - you bought me with this, it really is an R+L=J counter point. How would Ned explain a bastard with Targaryen silver hair and deep violet eyes? Though, if a baby is born with dark hair, it's not likely it'll turn light with time, so Ned could have known...

As J.Stargayen has pointed out repeatedly, no, it isn't. With the rumour of Ashara Dayne, purple eyes or silver hair would only give further support to the gossip that she was Jon's mother.

- As for Aegon... so he's Illyrio's son? HOW would Illyrio have a son that looks like a Targaryen or Blackfyre, while he doesn't and his wife doesn't either.

Serra is described as having "big blue eyes and pale golden hair streaked by silver". Illyrio is blonde (his statue by the pond is "A naked boy stood on the water, poised to duel with a bravo’s blade in hand. He was lithe and handsome, no older than sixteen, with straight blond hair that brushed his shoulders"). Those two could easily have produced a child with passable Valyrian looks, especially if you realize that purple or violet eye colour is just a couple of shades from blue - take a look at Elizabeth Taylor's eyes, in most pictures they come off as a shade of deep blue, and the purple can be subdued or brought out by clothing.

[RhaenysBee]

As J.Stargayen has pointed out repeatedly, no, it isn't. With the rumour of Ashara Dayne, purple eyes or silver hair would only give further support to the gossip that she was Jon's mother.

Serra is described as having "big blue eyes and pale golden hair streaked by silver". Illyrio is blonde (his statue by the pond is "A naked boy stood on the water, poised to duel with a bravo’s blade in hand. He was lithe and handsome, no older than sixteen, with straight blond hair that brushed his shoulders"). Those two could easily have produced a child with passable Valyrian looks, especially if you realize that purple or violet eye colour is just a couple of shades from blue - take a look at Elizabeth Taylor's eyes, in most pictures they come off as a shade of deep blue, and the purple can be subdued or brought out by clothing.

But... Ashara Dayne had dark hair. I checked it before posting and I checked it now too, and Wiki still says it's dark.

Hmm... I don't know. Maybe they could. I still don't really believe that Aegon is Illyrio's son, but you might be right and they might be able to produce a Valyrian looking child. But that child is not Aegon, I think.