Team Joffery

[Operation Lions]

In all seriousness, am I the only one who's thought that Joffery might be the best choice for King in Westeros. This is not saying that he is the nicest guy or anything. More that if I had to pick an any available administration to run Westeros, I'd pick Joffery and his counsel.

Point #1: Ned Stark basically is a traitor. Yes, it seems LIKELY that Joffery is Jaime's son, but given that this happened in an age before genetic testing, there is no proof what-so-ever. I mean, he really could be Robert's son and even if he's not, HE didn't know that. So, to the best of his knowledge, he's doing the lawful thing by killing him.

Point #2: He has basically no interest in politics, but this is actually a good thing. He will continue to play king while his qualified counsel runs things from behind the scenes. With Tywin, Tyrion, Little Finger and Varys in charge, Westeros is in good hands. He's also only 15. So, who knows, he might actually grow into being a decent leader.

Point #3: Who would actually do better? Robb Stark has some skills as a general, but is honestly an idiot without a shred of political training or capability. Danerys may rule well beyond the narrow seas, but she knows nothing of Westeros and it's people. Stannis wouldn't just kill Robb and Catelyn, but under his law, over half the Lords in the country are usurpers and would be punished by death.

***Please note I am intentionally excluding choices that arise later on in the book series, as this is written from the point of view of someone only exposed to the tv series.

[Lazy Lion]

I'm gonna cut to the chase.

Point #3: Who would actually do better?

Hodor.

[Earth 1 Andrew]

No... Just no... I have no words... :'(

[Wilbert]

Ok, since we have to stick to TV show only, what about Renly? He's beloved by his people, he lacks his older brother bad habits. He would be also the only one willing to negotiate with Robb. The only thing that kept him away from the Iron Throne was Mel's ghost assasin. If he stayed alived Lannisters would be squashed from the north and the south at the same time.

[Som Tin Wong]

In all seriousness, am I the only one who's thought that Joffery might be the best choice for King in Westeros. This is not saying that he is the nicest guy or anything. More that if I had to pick an any available administration to run Westeros, I'd pick Joffery and his counsel.

Point #1: Ned Stark basically is a traitor. Yes, it seems LIKELY that Joffery is Jaime's son, but given that this happened in an age before genetic testing, there is no proof what-so-ever. I mean, he really could be Robert's son and even if he's not, HE didn't know that. So, to the best of his knowledge, he's doing the lawful thing by killing him.

Point #2: He has basically no interest in politics, but this is actually a good thing. He will continue to play king while his qualified counsel runs things from behind the scenes. With Tywin, Tyrion, Little Finger and Varys in charge, Westeros is in good hands. He's also only 15. So, who knows, he might actually grow into being a decent leader.

Point #3: Who would actually do better? Robb Stark has some skills as a general, but is honestly an idiot without a shred of political training or capability. Danerys may rule well beyond the narrow seas, but she knows nothing of Westeros and it's people. Stannis wouldn't just kill Robb and Catelyn, but under his law, over half the Lords in the country are usurpers and would be punished by death.

***Please note I am intentionally excluding choices that arise later on in the book series, as this is written from the point of view of someone only exposed to the tv series.

:bs:

[tyrions sliced nose]

Wow it was right in front of our faces the WHOLE TIME!!!

I feel dumb now

[Ser Luke.]

Yeah, no.

[Gramsci]

Joffrey is a hedonistic sadist who is so inflated by his pride entitlement that he completely dismisses his role as the head of government. At least Robert Baratheon was a man who wanted to do right by others.

There are only a select few characters in the books who are truly 100% evil, and Joffrey is one of them. You say that Joffrey's apathy is actually a positive, as it allows his council free reign, but at what cost?

I would probably even take Balon Greyjoy over Joffrey, and that is saying something.

[Lord Flashheart]

Trolling isn't a good way to spend your first post.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Point #1: Ned Stark basically is a traitor. Yes, it seems LIKELY that Joffery is Jaime's son, but given that this happened in an age before genetic testing, there is no proof what-so-ever. I mean, he really could be Robert's son and even if he's not, HE didn't know that. So, to the best of his knowledge, he's doing the lawful thing by killing him.

LOL, what the hell? Cersei told Ned that her children are Jaime's and that she used to get Robert off in other 'ways'.

[Tim Thomason]

Joffrey is good *because* he brings in Tywin. The books are pretty solid that Tywin was an amazing administrator as Hand to the "Mad King," and there's nothing to indicate he couldn't continue this streak under King Joffrey.

There are only three other choices in the TV series: Renly, Stannis, and Daenarys. All three of which push out Tywin (obviously) and thus install a potentially unprepared Hand during an incoming Long Winter and probable supernatural invasion in which Westeros *really* needs someone knowledgeable to steer the ship.

Stannis might be the best to stop the invasion (despite lacking Tywin and Tyrion, and probably Varys and many others), just on his own merit. But he's an arch-conservative ("close all the brothels") who doesn't play well with others enough to unite them (Tyrells...). And this is before he becomes enamored with the Red God.

Renly is certainly a better politician than the other three, but there's a potential there for Robert's worst traits *and* lack of any ability to unite the realms for an invasion. *Maybe* if he succeeds to the Kingdoms legitimately without any attempted rebellion. I'll hold back on discounting him as the best choice, because I may not have the full picture on what he has to offer (TV show Renly & book Renly have different traits). He still won't bring in the Lannisters, of course.

Daenarys opens a lot of closed wounds for the Seven Kingdoms, but she (presumably) has Dragons as a boon for the upcoming invasion. I just hope TV Barristan & Jorah can talk some sense into her and prevent her from being a little too aggressive in her taming of the Westerosi lords (most of whom deposed her). She'll need them for the White Walkers.

[Gramsci]

LOL, what the hell? Cersei told Ned that her children are Jaime's and that she used to get Robert off in other 'ways'.

I feel as if I willfully ignored the ignorance of his first point. Some people are so attentive to the story that they conclude that

Oberyn may have poisoned Tywin

while others are so inattentive to the story that they believe there was still some doubt regarding Joffrey's parentage.

[N/A]

man this is worse than black hawk's theories

but trolling wise, not nearly as good as master hodor

[ejhawman]

1/10.

Seriously, Ned was promised he could take the black... and Joffrey says no deals, you commit treason, you die. Who would deal with him if he can't keep his word or take good advice? He was asking for his fate. He could never have ruled if he kept rubbing people the wrong way like he did.

[thenedstark]

Whats next? "Team" brave companions?

[Mad Monkey]

If anything, Joffrey is even worse in the TV show than he is in the books. Littlefinger and Varys are terrible rulers, and if your argument is that Joffrey is a good king because Tywin and Tyrion are good administrators then you might as well just argue that they should be king. They aren't the only smart people in Westeros; I'm sure Stannis and Renly could have found someone to work with them, especially Renly (and I find the old, 'Renly can't unify Westeros' argument especially churlish here considering that's literally the only thing Renly is actually good at = building coalitions and winning people over to his cause).

Robb would have been a great ruler of the North since he was not only trained to be a lord but is actually a decent human being on top of that.

Really, Joffrey is just a mess. He's basically what would happen if Jack the Ripper controlled the police force. The fact that people like Tyrion are able to sometimes work around him and get important work done isn't a point in his favor, any more than Oscar Pistorius's athletic abilities don't prove that having missing limbs is the best way to run faster. It's possible for a brilliant administrator to overcome Joffrey as an obstacle but that's all he is -- a burden and an obstacle.

[Wilbert]

Renly is certainly a better politician than the other three, but there's a potential there for Robert's worst traits.

Are you implying that at some point Renly would start getting drunk every evening and fucking every wench in the Seven Kingdoms?

[Empress In The North]

Are you implying that at some point Renly would start getting drunk every evening and fucking every wench in the Seven Kingdoms?

No but he probably would have thrown incredibly lavish and extravagant feasts and parties every other night. That's really what he was ever good for. According to the wiki, some people found him to be frivolous.

And who's to say that he wouldn't be having sex with every male servant in the Red Keep?

[Gramsci]

No but he probably would have thrown incredibly lavish and extravagant feasts and parties every other night. That's really what he was ever good for. According to the wiki, some people found him to be frivolous.

And who's to say that he wouldn't be having sex with every male servant in the Red Keep?

He was a one man man! Not every man's farts smell like roses. You don't let someone like that go.

[apc]

Point #3: Who would actually do better?

“Any of you, I would think. Even the cook.”