Robert's Rebellion Victims?

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Yes, I'm aware It's overtalked, especially when it comes to the star-crossed couple, Rhaegar and Lyanna. Yet, I've been craving for more in Elia Martell, Ashara Dayne and The Sword of the Morning, Ser Arthur Dayne. They've grown to be my favorite deceased characters, because they simply fascinate me and the tragedy the war brought to them. They sure are the worst victims of the war, because they simply died as collateral damage to the main players (Aerys, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Robert and Tywin), so I've often wondered: Will GRRM explore them more in the next books? Will we learn more about them? I know that Lyanna and Rhaegar are a must, but I'm more curious about others, like them and Brandon.

[Ramsay B.]

I believe GRRM said he will be explaining way more about the rebellion in the final books.

[Pod The Impaler]

I think there will be more told about Elia Martell, and both Ashara and Arthur Dayne, at some point.

Plus we might find out more about Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully, who knows.

[MotherAnduin]

Never saw Arthur Dayne as a victim. He had a role in Rhaegar losing his head. If Elia consented to Rhaegar running away with Lyanna, she is to blame for several deaths as well. The true victims of the rebellion are the smallfolk.

[lareine]

Yes, I'm aware It's overtalked, especially when it comes to the star-crossed couple, Rhaegar and Lyanna. Yet, I've been craving for more in Elia Martell, Ashara Dayne and The Sword of the Morning, Ser Arthur Dayne. They've grown to be my favorite deceased characters, because they simply fascinate me and the tragedy the war brought to them. They sure are the worst victims of the war, because they simply died as collateral damage to the main players (Aerys, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Robert and Tywin), so I've often wondered: Will GRRM explore them more in the next books? Will we learn more about them? I know that Lyanna and Rhaegar are a must, but I'm more curious about others, like them and Brandon.

They're the characters that I'm most interested in too. I do hope we get to learn more about them soon.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Never saw Arthur Dayne as a victim. He had a role in Rhaegar losing his head. If Elia consented to Rhaegar running away with Lyanna, she is to blame for several deaths as well. The true victims of the rebellion are the smallfolk.

Never saw Arthur Dayne as a victim. He had a role in Rhaegar losing his head. If Elia consented to Rhaegar running away with Lyanna, she is to blame for several deaths as well. The true victims of the rebellion are the smallfolk.

Why was the Sword of the Morning's fault that Rhaegar died? He followed orders from Rhaegar. He wasn't at the trident because Rhaegar asked him. And If you seriously don't think Elia Martell was a victim, considering what happened in the end (Aegon's Murder and her rape and death by the hands of the man that had just killed her son), then we sure disagree. And I'm pretty sure, though It's not confirmed, that Elia would not consent to Rhaegar annd Lyanna. Even if she did, they were the big players in the war, their actions started the conflict, not hers.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't think of them (Elia, Aegon, Rhaenys) as RR's victims but as Aerys' victims, Arthur was a fighter not a victim and we don't know much about Ashara to call her RR's victim

[Morienthar]

Arthur was no victim,He was a soldier.If he's a victim so is every soldier.

The Victims were Elia,Rhaenys and Aegon.

and the thousands killed inside KL.

[MotherAnduin]

Why was the Sword of the Morning's fault that Rhaegar died? He followed orders from Rhaegar. He wasn't at the trident because Rhaegar asked him. And If you seriously don't think Elia Martell was a victim, considering what happened in the end (Aegon's Murder and her rape and death by the hands of the man that had just killed her son), then we sure disagree. And I'm pretty sure, though It's not confirmed, that Elia would not consent to Rhaegar annd Lyanna. Even if she did, they were the big players in the war, their actions started the conflict, not hers.

Arthur Dayne should have talked to his best friend about how absolutely terrible his plan with Lyanna was. I never said Elia was not a victim. I said that if she supported Rhaegar in his plans, she is to blame for several thousand deaths.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I don't think of them (Elia, Aegon, Rhaenys) as RR's victims but as Aerys' victims, Arthur was a fighter not a victim and we don't know much about Ashara to call her RR's victim

I actually agree with you on what you said, but I meant as in, died in the Rebellion, for events that actually played in the Rebellion. IMO, Elia and the children are more victim of Tywin than Aerys. Arthur was not a victim per se, but his ending is tragic. I stand that he wasn't to blame for Rhaegar's death, but he followed orders. And as to Ashara, the events that were caused by the Rebellion, IMO, Brandon's death, triggered her emminent death. She's a tragic figure because she actually seemed extremely happy and full of life in the Year of the False Spring, and then to have her throw herself from that tower, after Arthur's death...

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Arthur Dayne should have talked to his best friend about how absolutely terrible his plan with Lyanna was. I never said Elia was not a victim. I said that if she supported Rhaegar in his plans, she is to blame for several thousand deaths.

Rhaegar didn't seemed to be adept of common sense. It's obvious that kidnapping, eloping, with Lyanna was a terrible idea. We have no way of knowing if he did talked to Rhaegar, though. That's what makes the discussion about these characters so interesting. I for one, can think that he did talked to him, butt Rhaegar had his "Dragon has three heads" mentality. About Elia, well, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. But I don't think she is to blame for several thousands deaths, even if she did accept it, because we can't know why. Maybe she said yes because she did not have the power to stop Rhaegar. Maybe she had an affair with the Stable's boy, and let him live his big romantic adventure. Maybe she was angry and upset, and told him no, but he did it anyway.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I actually agree with you on what you said, but I meant as in, died in the Rebellion, for events that actually played in the Rebellion. IMO, Elia and the children are more victim of Tywin than Aerys. Arthur was not a victim per se, but his ending is tragic. I stand that he wasn't to blame for Rhaegar's death, but he followed orders. And as to Ashara, the events that were caused by the Rebellion, IMO, Brandon's death, triggered her emminent death. She's a tragic figure because she actually seemed extremely happy and full of life in the Year of the False Spring, and then to have her throw herself from that tower, after Arthur's death...

Elia and her children was 99% Aerys’ victims (he had to protect them and he held them near him to secure Dorne’s support instead of sending them away with Rhaella and Viserys) and 1% Tywin’s (this is what happens after a war, the heirs have to die in order to secure the new dynasty).

As for Ashara, we aren’t sure that it was Brandon so we don’t know that she was a victim of RR’s. It could easily be postpartum depression combined with her daughter’s loss for example, something that has nothing to do with RR.

[Pikachu101]

Victims:

All the small folk

Elia and her children

Arthur: he played a role in RR

Ashara: we actually don't know why she died. It could be because of depression; first her brother and then her daughter.

[Steinnis]

Elia and her children was 99% Aerys’ victims (he had to protect them and he held them near him to secure Dorne’s support instead of sending them away with Rhaella and Viserys) and 1% Tywin’s (this is what happens after a war, the heirs have to die in order to secure the new dynasty).

As for Ashara, we aren’t sure that it was Brandon so we don’t know that she was a victim of RR’s. It could easily be postpartum depression combined with her daughter’s loss for example, something that has nothing to do with RR.

I dunno about 1% Tywin, but I agree that Aerys is as equally responsible for their deaths. If Ned had of reached KL before Tywin I doubt that he'd have butchered Elia and her children. Ned could've took them into custody, or fostered them somewhere until they come of age. Whilst Ned/Jon Arryn etc. ruled the realm.

[eggs]

Ashara Dayne and The Sword of the Morning, Ser Arthur Dayne

victims? really? fuck those guys. I think grrm confirmed that we would be learning more about Arthur and the rebellion later on though.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I dunno about 1% Tywin, but I agree that Aerys is as equally responsible for their deaths. If Ned had of reached KL before Tywin I doubt that he'd have butchered Elia and her children. Ned could've took them into custody, or fostered them somewhere until they come of age. Whilst Ned/Jon Arryn etc. ruled the realm.

And since when Ned knows what to do? It may would be the kind thing to do but not the right thing to do.

[King Robert's Warhammer]

Robert is a victim of the rebellion. Great warrior, not suited to be King. Didn't want to be King.

[Steinnis]

And since when Ned knows what to do? It may would be the kind thing to do but not the right thing to do.

Well, wasn't the tourney at HH initially to replace Aerys with Rhaegar. Aerys and Rhaegar were both dead, Ned would of had custody of the Crown Prince, and ruled in his name until he came of age. Robert could've been talked out of making a claim if this was the case as the governance of the realm would be in the hands of people loyal to him. Robert never struck me as someone who actually wanted to be KIng.

But, alas, Tywin happened.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

In all honesty, sitting Robert on the IT was IMO, a bad idea. Maybe sitting one of the Targaryen infants, being raised by Ned and Jon Arryn. Robert never cared for the throne and hated the thing. Naming him King was more of a burden than anything else. And the WOTFK is directly related to his lack of management.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Well, wasn't the tourney at HH initially to replace Aerys with Rhaegar.

We don’t know that

Aerys and Rhaegar were both dead, Ned would of had custody of the Crown Prince, and ruled in his name until he came of age. Robert could've been talked out of making a claim if this was the case as the governance of the realm would be in the hands of people loyal to him. Robert never struck me as someone who actually wanted to be KIng.

Why in the name of Gods the rebels should replace a mad Targaryen with another (possibly mad) Targaryen? People rebelled against the Targs, that pretty much says to me that the dynasty was over.

But, alas, Tywin happened.

yes, someone had the stomach to do what needed to be done.