Ser Gerold Dayne aka Darkstar: Character Analysis

[The Marquis de Leech]

Thats sort of how stories work, you know. The author says something about his fictional world, and we accept it as fact. It's called the word of god. The Blackfish is accepted as a good swordsman based on a single line of text; there's a good 4 or 5 times as much text devoted to Darkstar being 'dangerous'.

The author writes the text. It's then the job of the reader to interpret the text - once the book has got out there, and been published, Martin can't come out and say that Hot Pie is an awesome swordsman or that Ser Gregor Clegane is a lovely guy. Because that contradicts the text.

Thus what matters is not the intent in Martin's mind, but rather what is expressed on the page. Thus far we have Darkstar trying and failing to kill a little girl. To be fair, greater insight into the character might shift reader opinion in subsequent books. Right now though, basing judgement entirely on character action, would you call Darkstar competent?

[Usrnmhsnomning]

The author writes the text. It's then the job of the reader to interpret the text - once the book has got out there, and been published, Martin can't come out and say that Hot Pie is an awesome swordsman or that Ser Gregor Clegane is a lovely guy. Because that contradicts the text.

Thus what matters is not the intent in Martin's mind, but rather what is expressed on the page. Thus far we have Darkstar trying and failing to kill a little girl. To be fair, greater insight into the character might shift reader opinion in subsequent books. Right now though, basing judgement entirely on character action, would you call Darkstar competent?

Yes, I would, because multiple characters describe him as such. You using an extremity that would never happen like "Gregor Clegane is a lovely guy" is not going to change the fact that GRRM has absolute rights to declare whatever he wants and yes, we do have to lap it up hate it or love it. The intent in Martin's mind is everything. Whereas GRRM implicitly wants us to think Gregor is an evil bastard, he wants us to think Darkstar is a dangerous and competent person. And every time someone says "failed to kill a little girl" I want to laugh. Even in the story itself NO-ONE saw what happened so I think it's hilariously hypocritical to talk about taking the text at face value when it certainly isn't supporting your opinion here.

[The Marquis de Leech]

We decide that Gregor is an evil bastard from reading the text. If Martin were to come out and say, a la J.K. Rowling, that Gregor is a nice guy, I would refuse to deviate from my belief that Gregor is evil. Because that's what the text says.

Ditto with Hot Pie's swordsmanship. Until there is some actual evidence that Hot Pie is the greatest swordsman in Westeros, claims made by the author have no foundation in the actual book.

Darkstar's a more complex case, since there is textual evidence (i.e. what other characters say) that Darkstar is dangerous. However, this remains telling, rather than showing. We are told Darkstar is dangerous, but only shown his failure, so the interpretation the reader takes (and the reader does the interpreting, not the author) is that Gerold Dayne is a bit of a prat.

[The Taxman]

We decide that Gregor is an evil bastard from reading the text. If Martin were to come out and say, a la J.K. Rowling, that Gregor is a nice guy, I would refuse to deviate from my belief that Gregor is evil. Because that's what the text says.

Ditto with Hot Pie's swordsmanship. Until there is some actual evidence that Hot Pie is the greatest swordsman in Westeros, claims made by the author have no foundation in the actual book.

Darkstar's a more complex case, since there is textual evidence (i.e. what other characters say) that Darkstar is dangerous. However, this remains telling, rather than showing. We are told Darkstar is dangerous, but only shown his failure, so the interpretation the reader takes (and the reader does the interpreting, not the author) is that Gerold Dayne is a bit of a prat.

What failure?

Going by your logic, how are you so certain that it was his intention to kill Myrcella? Pretty hypocritical.

[Borsabil]

Yes, I would, because multiple characters describe him as such. You using an extremity that would never happen like "Gregor Clegane is a lovely guy" is not going to change the fact that GRRM has absolute rights to declare whatever he wants and yes, we do have to lap it up hate it or love it. The intent in Martin's mind is everything. Whereas GRRM implicitly wants us to think Gregor is an evil bastard, he wants us to think Darkstar is a dangerous and competent person. And every time someone says "failed to kill a little girl" I want to laugh. Even in the story itself NO-ONE saw what happened so I think it's hilariously hypocritical to talk about taking the text at face value when it certainly isn't supporting your opinion here.

He seems such a minor incidental character. We've been briefly introduced to him and he appeared to me, from reading Arianne's POV, a bit of a braggart. Really can't see the fuss, especially as the judgment on whether he's a badass, or not, revolves around the impressions of a young woman who's shown consistently bad judgment throughout.

[FaSome]

He seems such a minor incidental character. We've been briefly introduced to him and he appeared to me, from reading Arianne's POV, a bit of a braggart. Really can't see the fuss, especially as the judgment on whether he's a badass, or not, revolves around the impressions of a young woman who's shown consistently bad judgment throughout.

Daemon Sand(one of the finest knights in Dorne) also makes note of Ser Gerold's prowess and history with Oberyn Martell. Doran also does with his "most dangerous man in Dorne" statement. Martin has done everything except shown him in action, but one would be either ignorant or foolish to not expect a lot from Ser Gerold in the coming book...if you accept Doran and Daemon's hype that is.

[Reborn in Fire]

However low his moral standing he is graced with the coolest nickname in all the books. that cannot be taken away

[The Taxman]

Daemon Sand(one of the finest knights in Dorne) also makes note of Ser Gerold's prowess and history with Oberyn Martell. Doran also does with his "most dangerous man in Dorne" statement. Martin has done everything except shown him in action, but one would be either ignorant or foolish to not expect a lot from Ser Gerold in the coming book...if you accept Doran and Daemon's hype that is.

Darkstar strikes me as a hired hitmen of sorts. He only gets called on from mutiple factions to eliminate big game targets or complete certain missions.

[Blazfemur]

The problem is, we dont really know MUCH about Gerold Dayne. Every description ive read yields him having targaryen features, from the silvery hair to the purple eyes. is it possible he's half targaryen, half dayne? perhaps a bastard legitimized as a dayne?

im looking at the targ family tree, under daemon blackfyre, it is said there were 3 unknown sons. not sure if the dates add up. also, there's an unknown dayne under the dayne family tree to which he's born from. is it possible he could be a spawn of daemon blackfyre/female dayne?

you have to admit, a swordsman thats half targ half dayne would in fact be pretty badass.

[Valandui]

The problem is, we dont really know MUCH about Gerold Dayne. Every description ive read yields him having targaryen features, from the silvery hair to the purple eyes. is it possible he's half targaryen, half dayne? perhaps a bastard legitimized as a dayne? im looking at the targ family tree, under daemon blackfyre, it is said there were 3 unknown sons. not sure if the dates add up. also, there's an unknown dayne under the dayne family tree to which he's born from. is it possible he could be a spawn of daemon blackfyre/female dayne? you have to admit, a swordsman thats half targ half dayne would in fact be pretty badass.

The Daynes can have Valyrian features such as purple eyes and pale hair. It runs in their family too.

[Lord Reaver]

Right. I have little love for mr. Darkstar, so I'll go through each point in turn

The Dayne doesn't call himself Darkstar despite what most people think. The Red Viper, The Mountain, The Hound, The Knight of Flowers... all of these nicknames are corny in their own right. No need to single out Ser Gerold Dayne in this regard.

Yes, he calls himself Darkstar. Saying "Men call me" in front of it changes nothing, he's appealing to some unknown body that you can't ask, ergo it's really his own statement in a fairly thin disguise. Which luckily most people see straight through. Nobody else of the ones you list run around talking up their corny nicknames. It's not like the first thing out of Sandor's mouth is: "I'm a loyal, unquestioning badass, people call me the Hound." No. OTHER people call him that, he just lets them. Same thing with everyone else.

Darkstar believes that Ser Arthur Dayne was only impressive and renown due to his sword, Dawn. This may sound like a ridiculous statement, but think about it for a minute here. Are there any stories of Ser Arthur before he inherited Dawn? He has been known as the Sword of the Morning since his introduction to the story so we don't know how capable of a swordsmen he was before Dawn, but we can assume he was pretty damn good as the title of Sword of the Morning is only bestowed to the finest knight.

This cements my veiw of Darkstar as a jealous little prick. First, Dawn isn't simply inherited like the valyrian blades are. If it was, little Ned Dayne would be running around with it. It's not just the title of Sword of the morning that's bestowed, Dawn goes with it. So, the very fact that Arthur wielded Dawn is in itself saying that he was pretty great before getting it. Also, we have SSM on the subject, as pointed out.

Obviously Darkstar isn't as big a fool as Ser Arys Oakheart. As a matter of fact, after Darkstar maimed Myrcella, he escaped Areo Hotah and his men unscathed. Keep in mind that when Areo Hotah and his men pursued Darkstar on horses, they had crossbows and spears on hand and still couldn't catch Darkstar.

Hotah and his men were busy dealing with the suicidal charge of Arys. Keep in mind he still killed two of them, so it's not like they could safely deal with him and keep an eye on Darkstar at the same time. So yeah, he managed to escape while Arys provided the perfect diversion. Color me unimpressed.

Arianne believed that the KG are the finest knights in all of Westeros. Ser Arys Oarkheart was a member of the KG that was handpicked to escort Princess Myrcella to Dorne and to be her protector. But, given that, she is still uncertain if a knight of the KG could best Darkstar.

The KG are supposed to be the finest knights. However, we are repeatedly told that the current crop of White Cloaks are not even close to what former Kingsguards were. Jaime describes the skill of his fellow Kingsguard members as "adequate" or below.

Darkstar is the best swordsmen in all of Dorne... and possibly all of Westeros. Take a look at this:

Apparently Darkstar is capable annihilating an entire branch right off the map.

I don't see anything about him being a swordsman here. He is capable of annihilating an entire branch....according to Arianne. Not the most knowledgeable source, to be sure.

don't think Darkstar is the type of guy to defeat his foes by way of poison a la The Red Viper. Ser Gerold Dayne of High Hermitage doesn't have to resort to poison... he has a reputation to live up being a Dayne.

By his own words, he doesn't really give much of a care about that reputation. In summary: All we know is that someone think he's the most dangerous person in Dorne. Whether that's because he knows too much, is a super-badass with the sword, does dark magic or uses poison or if it's just a bunch of crap is up in the air, still, since we have so little actual information about the guy.

What we do know is that he's a jealous sack of pomposity who tried to kill a little girl. So, yes, I am not very awed by him. That could change, sure, but that's where we're at right now with the information presented to us in the books thus far.

[joluoto2]

Sorry, Areo Hotah will chop Dorkstar into small pieces and serve Doran them for dinner.

[Blazfemur]

The Daynes can have Valyrian features such as purple eyes and pale hair. It runs in their family too.

do you think he may be more than just a dayne, though?

[King of Winters]

do you think he may be more than just a dayne, though?

Well there's a theory that Oberyn may be his father. Here it is.

[Sordelor]

do you think he may be more than just a dayne, though?

There are a lot of theories about him, but they don't all have that much evidence to back them up.

[Joseph Stark]

When i first read about this guy I instantly liked him and was shocked when i started reading these forums and found out that alot of people didnt like him. I can say the same thing for Daario too, alot of people think that his character is a little overboard but i like cocky bastards that can kick some ass.

Personally I hope Darkstr turns out to be just as bad ass as he thinks he is and possibly steals Dawn and some "Hero" needs to kill him to get the sword back so they can use it against the others. I believe he could have something that most of the remaining villians in this story are lacking(the boltons,the freys.euron) and that is skill at arms. We need some more bad asses in this story that can fight. I believe Jamie filled that role nicely before he lost his hand and started to change.

Also it really bothers me when people said he hasnt done anything besides maim a girl. Just because we just met him doesnt mean he just came into existence so obviously he has done something or many things to get his reputation that Martin has decided not to make us aware of yet. Weas reader get our information about non POV characters from what the POVs see, think, say, or hear about, and if our main characters in Dorne all "know" or think that Darkstar is dangerous then i am 99% sure that he is just that.

Lastly I hope their is a reason Martin made him a Dayne and not from a different house since the Daynes seem to have a link to first long night and the war for dawn etc and it would be awesome if Darkstar being of the night was a hint that he may be working for or with the others and my possibly be making sacrifices to the others and will try and steal Dawn to stop it from being used against the others invasion this time around.

[Vaxis]

The theory on Darkstars motivation that I personally believe is that he is an agent of Varys/Illyrio, who does their bidding in return for a white cloak of Aegons Kingsguard, and the reward of Starfall and Dawn when Aegon reclaims his kingdom. It's good for both of them. Darkstar gets the castle, sword, and reputation he feels he deserves, and a Dayne Kingsguard adds a bit of legitimiacy to Aegons claim. Whether or not he intentionally maimed Myrcella or meant to kill her, that is still open for debate.

[Net-Viper X]

The text states he is dangerous, but does it ever actually say he is a great swordsman? I can't recall any mention specifically of his sword skills, but I could just be forgetting.

His dangerous nature could have nothing to do with his fighting ability and everything to do with other skills he has. For example Littlefinger is VERY dangerous, but I'll bet even Jeoffery could stomp him in a sword fight. Littlefinger is dangerous because of his skills at manipulation, not at fighting.

Tywin is a similar case, look how terrified the entire Westeros is of the guy, yet in battle he is losing to a 16 year old boy, and that boy would likely have mopped the floor with Tywin if the two ever crossed swords. Tywin however has a ton of gold and since he couldn't beat Robb in the field, he simply bought Robbs allies and won the war that way. Therefore Tywin is very dangerous, but not with a sword in his hand.

[Michael Herman]

Yeah, the "of the night" line is pretty ridiculous out of context, but since Mycella just asked "are you the sword in the morning" it makes sense and kind of suits the character.

[Blazfemur]

However low his moral standing he is graced with the coolest nickname in all the books. that cannot be taken away

"But wait, WAIT! I AM THE NIGHT, DAMNIT, YOU CANT DO THIS TO ME!" *gets head dumped in a privy by Podrick Payne*

If Darkstar ever makes screen time, he better have pasty skin, black nailpolish, and flip his hair at every opportunity. He better strictly drink coffee, and name everyone he sees around him poser (see South Park Goth Kids for reference)