Joseph Nobles Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 GRRM hates fan fiction & that's exactly what people are doing here clumsily roundpegsquarehole smooshing together characters and storylines that have no congruence. Stahp it. The title of this thread is "possible character merge." No one's forcing you or GRRM to read it. We will all allow you to leave in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sertravisredbeard Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 This all makes me feel real bad for David and Dan. Trying to fit all these storylines into 10 episode seasons is going to be a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sorry but fArya can't be a well-known highborn girl (such as Yara). It defeats the whole purpose of her marriage to Ramsay, as everyone would recognize her immediately. They need not merge arya with anyone, it can be a no name extra, theon just has to know is it ISNT arya and the plot remains the same.This. Why does she need to be an established character already? Jeyne Poole in the books wasn't anyone we'd ever cared about, I really don't see the issue with just placing a random new character in her role. The whole elaborate, well-worked out Yara theory is just unnecessary and not worth the trouble it would be to execute it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sorry but fArya can't be a well-known highborn girl (such as Yara). It defeats the whole purpose of her marriage to Ramsay, as everyone would recognize her immediately. This. Why does she need to be an established character already? Jeyne Poole in the books wasn't anyone we'd ever cared about, I really don't see the issue with just placing a random new character in her role. The whole elaborate, well-worked out Yara theory is just unnecessary and not worth the trouble it would be to execute it. As has been mentioned about 8 million times on these forums, if they choose to use Yara as the person Theon is going to save from Ramsay's clutches, she obviously won't be posing as Arya. It won't be a fakeout, it will just be someone Theon needs to save. There may not even be a wedding, who the hell knows? Knowing what we know about who and who hasn't been cast for this season and how far along the Bolton plot is once we reach the end of S4, it's getting pretty late in the game in S5 to suddenly have a fake Arya appear. Are they going to drop her by chopper into Winterfell just in time for the wedding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck88 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sorry but fArya can't be a well-known highborn girl (such as Yara). It defeats the whole purpose of her marriage to Ramsay, as everyone would recognize her immediately. This. Why does she need to be an established character already? Jeyne Poole in the books wasn't anyone we'd ever cared about, I really don't see the issue with just placing a random new character in her role. The whole elaborate, well-worked out Yara theory is just unnecessary and not worth the trouble it would be to execute it.Some of the theories have regarding the 'fArya' plot are getting out of control. I don't see why Jeyne Poole can't just be mentioned this season and cast in time for S5.But if it has to be done, people seem to be constantly over-looking a very important aspect of the whole thing and that's Jon Snow. Of all the possible nominations for existing characters to take on this role, there were only two that made sense; Asha and Talisa. This obviously depends on scrapping the fake Arya aspect all together - which would have been fine in the case of Talisa. Jon coming after his dead brother's wife would make sense. It would serve Theon's redemption arc even more than Jeyne would and we would feel sympathy for an already established character. Clearly not an option now. Asha posing as simply Asha would make sense in just about every way, but it would completely depend on scrapping the fake Arya aspect, which then takes Jon out the equation. He wouldn't give a shit about Asha and that's why I can't see how it could work without a much bigger deviation in Jon's own story. Hardly worth it. Like I said, it doesn't need to become some Gendry-esque plot expansion for an existing character. That may have worked for Gendry but it likely wouldn't work here. Mention Jeyne Poole this season, cast her for s5. Not that complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck88 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Knowing what we know about who and who hasn't been cast for this season and how far along the Bolton plot is once we reach the end of S4, it's getting pretty late in the game in S5 to suddenly have a fake Arya appear. Are they going to drop her by chopper into Winterfell just in time for the wedding? Agree with this. I think they should keep Jeyne Poole but she will need to be at least mentioned this season for it not to look like the whole thing is being pulled out of thin air. I expect she will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck88 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Asha posing as simply Asha would make sense in just about every way, but it would completely depend on scrapping the fake Arya aspect, which then takes Jon out the equation. He wouldn't give a shit about Asha and that's why I can't see how it could work without a much bigger deviation in Jon's own story. Hardly worth it. Unless.... and this is majorly crackpot. Asha is in fact taken by Stannis this season and saves Jon in some major way during the Battle of the Wall. Down the line, she somehow ends up at Winterfell, married to Ramsay blah, blah, blah. He might be more inclined to go to Winterfell, even knowing full well it is Asha that has been abused as he now owes her his life. I'd say there's more chance of Ned Stark coming back from the dead but it's fun to speculate nonetheless. I'll miss this in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Nobles Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 As has been mentioned about 8 million times on these forums, if they choose to use Yara as the person Theon is going to save from Ramsay's clutches, she obviously won't be posing as Arya. It won't be a fakeout, it will just be someone Theon needs to save. There may not even be a wedding, who the hell knows? Knowing what we know about who and who hasn't been cast for this season and how far along the Bolton plot is once we reach the end of S4, it's getting pretty late in the game in S5 to suddenly have a fake Arya appear. Are they going to drop her by chopper into Winterfell just in time for the wedding?That may be one way of doing it, sans the chopper.The main point of Yara as fArya is saving an actor's salary for the show. If I had all the money in the world, I would do it all just as GRRM said. But finding ways to save cash means more dragon airtime! But what you said in jest is worth considering. When does fArya absolutely have to be in place? In enough time for the Pink Letter to make sense for Jon. What if the show saved the fArya scheme for a season 5 reaction by Ramsey to Theon and Yara escaping in 4x10? I'm writing this in a burst of inspiration, so I've not thought it all through. But it seems to me that would fit Bran's accelerated storyline and give us the battle of Winterfell as a 5x09 episode. And it gives Yara something better to do than hang around Deepwood Motte and Theon a stronger motivation for coming back from Reek.ETA: fAutocorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I have no idea what they're planning on doing but I will say that translating the "fArya" part of the novel to the screen was always going to create major problems. It's much easier for someone reading a book to go along with the idea that the girl GRRM is describing looks enough like Arya that other characters in the story wouldn't question it or be outright fooled by the entire farce (and the whole notion is a ridiculous farce rest assured). Putting a newly cast actor who the audience has never heard of before or seen but has supposedly been around in the background since Season 1 makes it that much harder for the story to stay together or more importantly, for the audience to have much sympathy for this girl who Theon needs to rescue from Ramsay. You've got multiple Northern families being introduced for the first time who are taking a larger role in the story (the different Umbers, the different Karstarks, the Hill tribes, Wyman Manderly, Lady Dustin, the Ryswells etc). There is no way the show is going to bother introducing all of these groups and try to articulate the different motivations that each of them have towards the Starks and the Boltons. Manderly will most likely stand in for the Northern lords the way that the Greatjon did in S1. If you remove all that complexity, all you really need to know is that the North (as a whole) doesn't trust the Boltons and are only being held in check by their alliance with the Frey's and Lannisters. You don't even need to go through the exercise of attempting to "unite" them through a marriage to Arya. The important part of the story is that they all get together at Winterfell, the North starts to quietly rebel against the Bolton/Frey alliance and that Theon finally is able to escape from Ramsay's spell by saving an innocent girl only to run into Stannis and be captured by him. Jon's part in all of this seems thin anyways. First of all, depending on what Mance's role is in future books, he can be used in another capacity as opposed to sending him and the spearwives to Winterfell, Theon would appear to be perfectly capable of escaping with Yara in the midst of a chaotic Manderly/Frey confrontation without any help. And even if you need Mance in Winterfell for future events to happen the right way, being sent there for another reason besides "Arya" could be done. Roose and Ramsay going to Winterfell to claim it as their own as the new Warden of the North is a pretty big affront to any Stark loyalist. Additionally, Theon's presence being announced there could enrage Jon to the point of him wanting have someone capture/kill him to answer for the deaths of Bran/Rickon and his overall betrayal. Lots of ways to do this. In terms of the Pink Letter that goads Jon, he can be goaded in lots of different ways besides Arya as mentioned above and really, the NW was pretty much set to murder him before any of that went down so you can certainly work around it. Going by what happens at the end of ADwD, Jon appears to have his own things he'll need to deal with now so any kind of full scale mission to rescue "Arya" would most likely be scuttled before they started. You've also got Jeyne Poole who looks to be written out entirely after Theon hands her off. And coincidentally, you now have Theon and Yara together with Stannis just as they would be under this scenario in the show, thus resetting the storyline while simplifying it immensely, making it easier for the audience to follow and cutting down on the number of characters you need to introduce. I think Theon's arc is strengthened immeasurably by making the girl he needs to rescue be the only person he appears to care about anymore (and additionally a character the audience knows and cares about). I don't know why they spent so much time in S3 having both Theon and Ramsay mention Yara so much on top of the fact that Yara forsaking Balon's mission to make a determined effort to rescue Theon unless they planned on throwing the three of them together in S4. Dramatically, based on what's been set up, that's the logical conclusion. As I said, they could go a number of different ways here and I'm not saying that this is definitely happening in any way but if I was writing the show and looking to make some deviations in order to simplify this very convoluted part of the story, this is the way I'd do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I can see some Sand Snakes being merged into just 2 or 3 instead of how many there are in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfield Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Ilyn = Bronn now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco_Dracul Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Ilyn = Bronn now It's really not a bad choice. Bronn will keep quite as long as he's paid and the Lannisters always have the gold. While not as air tight as Ser Ilyn, it is understandable given the real life circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 As has been mentioned about 8 million times on these forums, if they choose to use Yara as the person Theon is going to save from Ramsay's clutches, she obviously won't be posing as Arya. It won't be a fakeout, it will just be someone Theon needs to save. There may not even be a wedding, who the hell knows? Knowing what we know about who and who hasn't been cast for this season and how far along the Bolton plot is once we reach the end of S4, it's getting pretty late in the game in S5 to suddenly have a fake Arya appear. Are they going to drop her by chopper into Winterfell just in time for the wedding? But my point is that that would be an overly complicated plot change, with unnecessary ripple effects throughout the rest of the series: it makes so much more sense for them to just find a girl who looks like Arya and have Ramsay marry her. I still don't see the problem with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 But my point is that that would be an overly complicated plot change, with unnecessary ripple effects throughout the rest of the series: it makes so much more sense for them to just find a girl who looks like Arya and have Ramsay marry her. I still don't see the problem with this. I explained the problem with it. In detail about 4 posts up. And I'll say again, if they wanted to do the FArya storyline, you'd think the girl would be cast or someone would have mentioned something about that possibility by this point. Roose is going to be reunited with Ramsay this year. You don't think it's in any way strange that they haven't bothered to set up this storyline at all to this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I explained the problem with it. In detail about 4 posts up. And I'll say again, if they wanted to do the FArya storyline, you'd think the girl would be cast or someone would have mentioned something about that possibility by this point. Roose is going to be reunited with Ramsay this year. You don't think it's in any way strange that they haven't bothered to set up this storyline at all to this point? Is that really a big deal, though? It wouldn't take more than one short scene with Roose/Ramsay/Theon this season to introduce it, and fArya can be cast for next season as some random peasant girl who happens to look a lot like Arya. The plot of the books remains untarnished. Also, I think anyone would sympathize with a girl who got raped by Ramsay, so that part of your earlier post seems to fall flat. And the idea that a lot of people would instantly recognize her as not being Arya... hardly any of the Northern lords ever saw her, and as was established in the books, having Theon give her away to Ramsay put people's minds at ease as he should definitely recognize her. Without this marriage, there's no reason for Ramsay to bring Theon out of his cell and dress him up again, so unless they want to severely alter arguably the best part of ADWD, I don't see the point in changing anything about this storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco_Dracul Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Also, I think anyone would sympathize with a girl who got raped by Ramsay, so that part of your earlier post seems to fall flat. And the idea that a lot of people would instantly recognize her as not being Arya... hardly any of the Northern lords ever saw her, and as was established in the books, having Theon give her away to Ramsay put people's minds at ease as he should definitely recognize her. Without this marriage, there's no reason for Ramsay to bring Theon out of his cell and dress him up again, so unless they want to severely alter arguably the best part of ADWD, I don't see the point in changing anything about this storyline. Actually, the first book implies that many of the Northern lords have seen her with the empty seat that Ned always left at the table, that while often filled by members of the staff was also filled by visiting lords and it would only take a single lord to unravel the whole thing. I think they should only bother with this plot if Jeyne Pool has a role going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damp Hair - The Prophet Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Asha Greyjoy & Jeyne Poole could not be more different human beings. YarAsha as fArya is ridiculous. Jeyne is a steward's kid and meekly submits to Ramsay. The Kraken's Daughter would chew up Ramsay & pick her teeth w/ his bones. Literally. She probably has teeth in her vagina, or like one of those octopus beak things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Asha Greyjoy & Jeyne Poole could not be more different human beings. YarAsha as fArya is ridiculous. Jeyne is a steward's kid and meekly submits to Ramsay. The Kraken's Daughter would chew up Ramsay & pick her teeth w/ his bones. Literally. She probably has teeth in her vagina, or like one of those octopus beak things. Explains why Stannis is dragging her around like a puppy in the books I guess. You can be tough and still be captured. Lots of examples of that through the entire series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damp Hair - The Prophet Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The Mannis is in a whole other echelon than lil Ramsay, & YarAsha being the former's prisoner after a solid battle at Deepwood (& still scheming) is a very different thing than submitting to fascicle marriage, rape & overall degradation at the hands of the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The Mannis is in a whole other echelon than lil Ramsay, & YarAsha being the former's prisoner after a solid battle at Deepwood (& still scheming) is a very different thing than submitting to fascicle marriage, rape & overall degradation at the hands of the latter. I'm not sure why she needs to be "submitting" to anything. She's obviously a far different personality than Jeyne Poole and the dynamic between her and Ramsay would reflect those differences. I realize that these types of ideas need some people to evolve beyond the reaction of "that didn't happen in the books so it's wrong" so I apologize to those who can't really move past that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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