(Heavy Book Spoilers) Possible Character Merge

[The Dragon has three heads]

They need not merge arya with anyone, it can be a no name extra, theon just has to know is it ISNT arya and the plot remains the same.

[leviathan800]

Correct if I am wrong but heard that they may refer to Prince Oberyn as the Prince of Dorne, in s4. But hope that they include Doran is s5. But I could see them not including Quentyn at all, and perhaps making Dany's Dragons deep fry a few kids or so to make it more shocking

I recon they will jst include Euron and avoid Vic. As I think Asha will get captured on her route to the Dreadfort by Stannis. And in her absence Euron is elected as King of the Seastone Chair.

I think they will include JonCon and fAegon, and may make Tyrion spend a little more time with them then in the books, to give the viewers the belief that Dany isnt the last Dragon

[go joff go]

The problem with the Vic and euron is that individually they haven't done much so far and what they have done it really isn't inconceivable that one guy could accomplish the tasks of both. So it doesn't seem crazy that there might be a merge.

[Nezzer]

Oh I agree that was a great moment, and very humanising. Except that was written by Cogman, not D&D, who are very public in their dislike and misunderstanding of Stannis.

The only time they have ever said something bad about Stannis is when Dan Weiss (alone, without Benioff) said Stannis would make a terrible king in one of those inside the episode videos. I think they were just trying to impose a certain point of view to the viewers to later surprise them. They did the same think with Jaime, with David Benioff calling him a monster, but they ended up doing a great job with his redemption arc.

[Queen of Whores]

The only time they have ever said something bad about Stannis is when Dan Weiss (alone, without Benioff) said Stannis would make a terrible king in one of those inside the episode videos. I think they were just trying to impose a certain point of view to the viewers to later surprise them. They did the same think with Jaime, with David Benioff calling him a monster, but they ended up doing a great job with his redemption arc.

I hope you're right, and I didn't realize they said that about Jaime. That gives me a little more hope now :)

[Ser Tahu]

The problem with the Vic and euron is that individually they haven't done much so far and what they have done it really isn't inconceivable that one guy could accomplish the tasks of both. So it doesn't seem crazy that there might be a merge.

There are books after ADwD, you know. Them not doing much so far has no impact on what they might do in the future.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I think that is a decent idea, OP. I hope some secondary characters from AFFC/ADWD are cut - GRRM introduced way too many and it hurt the overall narrative.

Quentyn is a plot device whose purpose is to sow the seeds of unrest between Dany and the Martells. He is more necessary than Jon, but his travelogue chapters need not be included and will probably be cut. Connington is more likely to be cut because like Davos, he primarily exists for us to get a closer look at Aegon

That animosity can be established by putting Quentyn with Aegon. That means the Martells will be supporting his claim over Dany's

[go joff go]

There are books after ADwD, you know. Them not doing much so far has no impact on what they might do in the future.

But it impacts the show. Look at Yara. The only reason they could really get away with what they are doing with her is to basically hire an actress with no experience, b/c most actors aren't going to make a committment to a couple of scenes a season. People keep mention the Rome guys to take greyjoys but none of them are very likely to take parts that would be like 3-4 scenes in a season

[Ser Tahu]

But it impacts the show. Look at Yara. The only reason they could really get away with what they are doing with her is to basically hire an actress with no experience, b/c most actors aren't going to make a committment to a couple of scenes a season. People keep mention the Rome guys to take greyjoys but none of them are very likely to take parts that would be like 3-4 scenes in a season

And your point is? I don't see why that would require them to combine Victarion and Euron. I could see Aeron being removed and his parts given to YarAsha and Victarion, but Victarion and Euron? No.

[Queen of Whores]

But it impacts the show. Look at Yara. The only reason they could really get away with what they are doing with her is to basically hire an actress with no experience, b/c most actors aren't going to make a committment to a couple of scenes a season. People keep mention the Rome guys to take greyjoys but none of them are very likely to take parts that would be like 3-4 scenes in a season

Ciaran Hinds (Julius Caesar from Rome) was only in three scenes this season. One for each of the first three episodes, and the later two scenes were only like three minutes long each.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Yara will become fake Arya. Hear me out.

1. Same letters in both names.

2. That's why we got the big buildup to go save Theon: to establish that Yara will go to great lengths to protect Theon.

3. Yara and Arya are both tomboys. People who know Arya by sight are pretty much dead, just like the books. The tomboy thing will be legend, though.

4. Theon can prep Yara on what else she needs to know. Am I remembering wrong or didn't Yara come to see Theon after he took Winterfell? If so, she will know the general layout of the castle already.

5. If Yara resists, Ramsey cuts off another piece of Theon. Any injury to Yara would have to be hidable under her clothes. There is going to be a big public wedding, after all.

6. In Season 5, both Theon and Yara can escape together and make it to Stannis and pick up the canonical story at that point.

This means any Kingsmoot would be in 5. Balon would die late in 4, probably right after he gets back a mangled body that's supposed to be Yara. Euron can show up in 5 with Victarion and just assume the throne.

This is kind of genius. But I think Yara as a fake Sansa could work better.

Since Joffrey will die early next season, Tyrion will be accused and Sansa will disappear early as well. Roose or Tywin could suggest posing Yara as Sansa Stark and marrying her to Ramsay since it's common knowledge that Tyrion and Sansa never consummated their marriage. Tyrion can't be her husband if he's at the Wall or dead, obviously.

These are the kinds of changes that are necessary and good - getting across the main points of the story while condensing details and keeping the number of characters limited. It follows the spirit but not the letter, and that's fine.

[Joseph Nobles]

Yes, but as Lannister allies, the Boltons could hardly expect to get away with openly marrying Sansa, someone who is believed to have participated in the death of Joffrey. Plus, the implications for Brienne's storyline also undercut the idea of Yara being a fake Sansa. Why is Brienne wandering all over Westeros if Sansa is supposed to be in the North? Only if Jaime and Brienne are aware that it's not Sansa would that work, and why would they be? I thought Yara as fake Sansa was the most likely, but thinking of the other storylines it's the most impossible.

Yara as fake Arya is almost as problematic from an age perspective. The only way it could work is if Yara is kept out of sight by Ramsey as much as possible. It would be evident as a patent falsehood as soon as most get a look at her, and only the most motivated would support the marriage after that. And how easy would it be for word getting back to Jon that this Arya is no true Stark? I don't see this as completely unworkable, but it will be a hard sell.

So I think that if they do go this way, Yara will be just Yara Greyjoy, bride of Ramsey meant to unite the North and the Iron Islands under the rule of Tommen Baratheon and the Warden of the North, Roose Bolton. Jon's motivation for breaking his NW's vows would then have to be simply the travesty of Ramsey Bolton in Ned Stark's castle and the shame of having supported Stannis the supposed loser of the Battle of Winterfell.

And as some have said, it's just as easy to cast an extra and say, "Here's Jeyne Poole, one of the survivors of the sack of Winterfell: she can be Arya." The name has been mentioned back in the first season. Yara could head back after trying to find Theon, meet with Stannis after Balon dies, and agree to help get Stannis to the Wall in exchange for his supporting her for the Ironborn Throne.

And it would be interesting to see Jeyne as fake Arya and Sansa as Alayne Stone be revealed in the same episode as Lady Stoneheart...

[Ramsay Gimp]

Good points, I obviously hadn't considered all that. Ripple effects and all. They could just never accuse Sansa of participating in Joffrey's murder, and say she was briefly arrested before being sent back North to Bolton. Brienne's quest could be modified to just be for Arya, but it would still be problematic. On the other hand if Brienne dies in TWOW before finding either of the girls it would all be moot.

The only way I could see Yara marrying against her will is as part of a plan to escape with Theon. But the Boltons aren't going to trust a Greyjoy so they could keep her locked up like Jeyne in the book. Then if "Reek" rescues her (in place of Jeyne) it would be a nice switcheroo for the audience's expectations. Theon could finally get one up on his sister :laugh:

[Joseph Nobles]

The only way I could see Yara marrying against her will is as part of a plan to escape with Theon. But the Boltons aren't going to trust a Greyjoy so they could keep her locked up like Jeyne in the book. Then if "Reek" rescues her (in place of Jeyne) it would be a nice switcheroo for the audience's expectations. Theon could finally get one up on his sister :laugh:

That's what I really like about Yara being captured by Ramsey - she and Theon escaping together. Much more opportunity for them to have scenes, even reconciling while Jaime and Cersei are tearing apart.

[imaginepageant]

It is unlikely she'll do otherwise. And while the Kingsmoot is interesting in the books, I think it can take place off-screen in the TV show. That would save casting lots of later unseen actors. We can meet Euron and Victarion other ways.

Agreed. The Kingsmoot will go on, but Yara likely will not be a part of it. She lost, anyway, so why does she need to be there at all? She'll continue on to the Dreadfort, while her uncles hold the Kingsmoot in the Iron Islands, offscreen. All we need to see is Yara angry for missing her chance to be Queen, and Victarion angry that he lost to Euron. A lot of time will be saved by cutting the Kingsmoot and picking the arc up with Euron sending Victarion after Daenerys.

[johnnysd]

I am afraid the will cut Stoneheart from the entire story....:-/

They will probably go a different way with it.Not sure which.

Edit:Deleted unnecessary text.

I believe Fairley hinted in some panel that she was not entirely done with GOT, so I suspect Lady Stonehart stays in. Makes all the Baeric Dundarrion stuff useless if they don't. Not my favorite character because I hate resurrection, but she likely has some part to play.

In terms of the storylines, TV adaptations are strange in that elements that don't take much space in a book can take many minutes of screen time (such as a battle), while huge segments of a book can be condensed to a few minutes of screen time and not lose the plot elements and have the same effect. I think this is very true of a lot of the side stories in AFFC/ADWD. Brienne's story and Quentyns can be condensed with very smart dialogue to only a few scenes each and not lose much of the story at all. Remember they have as much as 600 minutes to tell their story, and I think 1.5 between Brienne and Quentyn's storylines could tell all the events likely intact. Same with Sam's trip to Oldtown, much of the events at the wall and at Mereen and Season 4 will already have some AFFC/ADWD elements in them. In fact if you think about it, it is possible they need to pad some storylines to fill everything out and pace it correctly. Cerseis and Margaerys feud is already starting and that is a significant portion of AFFC. The Kingsmoot (likely without Asha) does not need many scenes to establish the characters and the horn and send them on the way. The situation in Astapor can be shown in several minute length scenes. I think they can easily cover all the storylines in the AFFC/ADWD. Tyrions storyline is probably the longest and most difficult to condense, Dany's the easiest and much of that will be covered this year.

In the end, just as they have until now, I think that all the major plot points will still be hit and the axeing of large sections not needed.

[Joseph Nobles]

If we ever see footage of Michelle Fairley in an episode preview, though, like in another dream of Bran's, put your game faces on. If the Unsullied watch all us book readers start dancing around with glee, they'll know something is up.

ETA: Come to think of it, the best place to do this is 4x10. If Bran hooks up to the weirwood network and sees his mom back in Winterfell, it will be just like Dany seeing Drogo in 2x10 - a nice bittersweet surprise. And then, BAM, Lady Stoneheart steps up at the end.

[Spear of Dorne]

My take would be that Quentyn appears in just a few scenes in Meereen after Doran's "Fire and Blood" speech, he gets rejected by Dany and then gets roasted by a dragon. Meanwhile I think that if they truly want to scale down the Iron Islands storyline I would simply show Balon's death and just have Euron take power, forcing Asha to remain in the north. Victarion can be shown as his grudging supporter who feels he has no chance to depose him. That gives us more time to see the Iron Islanders attack The Reach.

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

GRRM hates fan fiction & that's exactly what people are doing here clumsily roundpegsquarehole smooshing together characters and storylines that have no congruence. Stahp it.

[Longspear Ryk]

GRRM hates fan fiction & that's exactly what people are doing here clumsily roundpegsquarehole smooshing together characters and storylines that have no congruence. Stahp it.

lol a lot of it went really to far

most of it seems absolutely unbelievable