(Heavy Book Spoilers) Possible Character Merge

[Frost_Nocturne]

'DarkAndFullOfTurnips' wrote:

Quentyn's is nothing if not useless. Other than freeing the dragons who could've just freed themselves there's no point to wedge in a pointless subplot in a book that's essentially a large collection of subplots. Dorne will already not side with Dany. Moreover the story sucks because you knew the minute he appeared that Quentyn would be unsuccessful, you just underestimated his stupidity.

On TV it could work better since you can effectively cut the fat and you get a nice CG scene to show off.

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Agreed. I've always thought Qwentyn was expendable. If D&D are looking to cut characters, he's a major candidate. Viewers may get teens roaming Essos fatigue. Moreover, unlike fAegon, he's not very admirable or likeable. Even in the books he is a footnote to 1) show Doran's canny planning and 2) release the dragons. Both of those can be established other ways. And Doran won't need Quentyn revenge to back fAegon over Dany.

About Asha/Yara--Season 3 set up her immediate future action and determination. It is unlikely she'll do otherwise. And while the Kingsmoot is interesting in the books, I think it can take place off-screen in the TV show. That would save casting lots of later unseen actors. We can meet Euron and Victarion other ways.

I found fAegon to be the least likable, most unrelatable, and cheap character introduced in a book full of them. If nothing else, Quentyn is relatable to most viewers.

[Ryan Baratheon]

No love for nimble dick??

[Queen of Whores]

No love for nimble dick??

I think he is a great character that I would love to see on the show, but let's face it, I really doubt he'll be on the show.

[PhoenixFlame]

To play devil's advocate, maybe they expand Quentyn a bit to make him more sympathetic and thus it's a "WTF?!" moment when he gets torched. It's also a good way to see Dany from another perspective. Quentyn's Essos adventures sound more interesting than "Should I or shouldn't I? Aw screw politics, I'm just going to bone Daario."

[Longspear Ryk]

To play devil's advocate, maybe they expand Quentyn a bit to make him more sympathetic and thus it's a "WTF?!" moment when he gets torched. It's also a good way to see Dany from another perspective. Quentyn's Essos adventures sound more interesting than "Should I or shouldn't I? Aw screw politics, I'm just going to bone Daario."

i think thats what their going to do, it would work awesome for television audiences. They would eat that Quentyn thinking he's a hero nonsense right up. Then when Dany spurns him, she'll look like a bad guy. Especially with how much Oberyn is gona make them love Dornish next season.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Plus we haven't seen the downside of Danny's eastern conquests the starving cannibal children, rapists, nurseries etc all trying to survive in astapor.

Those chapters of quentyns are the best IMO as you see the otherside of Danny's fire and blood ethos.

That thousands have died and more will die before its over.

*in fact I'd introduce Quentyn earlier so we get attached to him before roasting him on a Ned/red wedding moment.

[Darryk]

Quentyn's arc was worth it just for the part when he gets eviscerated by dragons. Especially when he looks at his burning arm and thinks "oh".

I can see them cutting him out of the show though. Whether they can merge his character with Connington depends on how important Connington's infatuation with Rhaegar is down the line. Personally I'd prefer it if they just kept Jon Connington as is.

[PhoenixFlame]

My ultimate no wai! reason: Kevin McKidd is Jon Connington, and McKidd doesn't look Dornish. Ergo, a Quentyn merger is impossible.

Heh, I loved the dragontamer scene...not because I enjoyed Quentyn being killed, but the perfection of his reaction. I've totally done that; been injured but too shocked to be emotional or reactive about it...for about five seconds.

[Frumpus]

I think they'd sooner cut Quentyn and his arc completely rather than merge him with JonCon.

Daenerys has plenty to do without Quentyn mucking about in the background.

[Ser Luke.]

Well, they obviously will need to cut out a good chunk of AFFC/ADWD to fit it all into Season 5, so I'd be up for this. Although honestly, if the Aegon storyline isn't going anywhere, it might be better if they just cut him out altogether.

[Constantinople]

The most likely merger in my eyes, is Bronn being substituted for the Kettleblacks to emphasise Tyrion's isolation at the trial. Cersei can seduce Bronn, have him betray Tyrion, and then set him up to follow Margaery around in series five.

[Honourable Ser]

Looking ahead to AFFC/ADWD material, it seems very likely that D&D will be condensing and straight-out eliminating some characters and storylines.

Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Davos, and Sam are all due for their own arcs separated from that of any other pre-established character (with brief exceptions--Arya and Sam, Tyrion and Jorah). Meanwhile, Dorne and the Iron Islands get their extended internal struggles with a bevy of brand-new characters.

Overall, D&D have been solid surgeons of GRRM's sprawling corpus, cutting when they need to for the sake of Unsullied and the show's tightness and emotional legibility in general. Where will their next cut fall?

One possibility: Quentyn Martell = Jon Connington.

IMO (and not just mine), the Quentyn arc was the weakest in ADWD. His primary traits were petulance and self-righteousness, an unappealing combination. GRRM attempted a pathos injection by a) killing off a companion or two well before they were established enough to be tragic in their fall, and emphasizing Quentyn's ugliness at every turn, almost as often as Tyrion "waddles." He worked best as a structuring absence: an invisible thorn in his sister Arianne's side as she followed her own, more compelling ambitions. On his own terms, all he accomplished was adding a redundant crossing-of-Essos storyline on top of that of Tyrion/Aegon/Connington, stumbling awkwardly into the unfolding chaos in Meereen (GRRM's clumsiest integration), and then dying horribly. Woo. Thematically, he adds nothing but fragments of pride, ambition, weakness, and despair that resonate far more strongly in the other arcs in his orbit (Daenerys, Arianne, etc.) What's more, while GRRM mostly kept Doran's children in separate books (Arianne in AFFC, Quentyn in ADWD), the show will almost certainly be collapsing those simultaneous narratives into one season (namely, 5), forcing them to establish Quentyn's identity and purpose when Arianne's storyline profits from that being kept secret from the audience. So screw the Quentyn Arc--it should, and probably will, be first on D&D's chopping block for the many-tentacled beast that will be Season 5.

What about Jon Connington? He's a one-note character (replace Griff with Gruff), but plays off Tyrion well, and the greyscale lends him some genuine feeling. Still, the Aegon revelation is already going to be a lot for Unsullied to swallow, in terms of both legibility and plausibility. Explaining Connington's backstory without laying any groundwork (as they almost certainly will do for Aegon, via his uncle Oberyn's revenge mission) will just sap that moment of its emotional impact. It's representative of an overall adaptation problem plaguing the series: so many of the characters are stuck in the past, reliving the glories and the horrors of Robert's Rebellion (and its causes, and its effects), so much so that they prove unable to cope with the present (e.g., Robert himself), or are driven to recreate the past in the present (e.g., Littlefinger looking at Sansa and seeing Young Cat). This corrosive nostalgia is one of the emotional lodestones of the books, but has proved difficult to translate onscreen. Preserving Connington will only add to this dilemma.

So, to sum up: Quentyn is lame, character and arc alike, but has a structuring-absence role to play in the Dorne storyline, while Connington is an enjoyable character but will only muddy the waters of an already bloated storyline.

How to solve?

I'd say get rid of Quentyn's book arc, and slot him into Jon Connington's role. Quentyn, then, would be Aegon's gruff, overbearing protector. He's related to Aegon (they're cousins), eliding the need to belabor their connection. He'd represent a direct connection between Season 4 Tyrion, meeting and being defended by Oberyn, and Season 5 Tyrion, sailing east with Oberyn's nephews. This would cement the Martells' role in the overarching storyline, allow for a tragic scene or two when Tyrion confesses to his new companions how their uncle died (and for whom), and reduce the aforementioned burden of Robert's Rebellion backstory. This Quentyn's identity, like Aegon's, would be kept secret at first, allowing D&D to establish Arianne's motivation to unseat Quentyn without spoiling Doran's master plan. Oberyn could set all this up by dropping a hint about his exiled nephew (perhaps under the cover of having supported Viserys?) in Season 4.

Thoughts?

Personally, I can't see the merging of Connington and Quentyn (although your post is plausible), but I definitely agree with you in terms of the characters being exceedingly dull. "Yes, yes, we know Quentyn is ugly, yes, we know Connington is bitter, please move the plot along!"

[Beorn Snow]

Yeah, you can pretty easily cut out the Kettleblacks.

As for Yara´s (Asha´s) storyline I say it goes like this:

Season:4

1. She gathers her band.

2. Seeks advice from her favorite uncle, the reader.

3. Carl the maid and her other boycrush join up.

4. Goes to Moat Cailin and meets her uncle Victarion.

5. Gets the news of her father´s death and the King´s moot.

The only character cut out is the Damphair, replaced by priests that support Victarion at the King´s moot.

Season 5:

Then we get the King´s moot, she fails and goes north supposedly to get her brother Theon. By getting him she can get the King´s moot cancelled and call for a new one.

[fehler]

I like Quentyn, simply because he sets up the turmoil between Adrianne and Doran. Without the Doran/Quentyn ploy, Adrianne doesn't have enough motive for hatching her own plots.

[Ser Luke.]

No love for nimble dick??

Hell no

[rystine]

I think that Quentyn's part of the story is important, WOW spoilers, in Arianne's WOW spoiler chapter it seems evident that the Martell's support of Dany is somewhat dependent on her acceptance of Quentyn.

I think that Dany rejecting Quentyn, and Quentyn's death at the hand of Dany's dragons will set the Martells against Dany and for YG.

Honestly, if any POV characters were to be done away with, I would dare say they would do away with Victarion and the Damphair.

Now obviously we have yet to see just how much impact Victarion will have on the story. But as of DWD, he really hasn't done anything outside of what Euron desires.

It's really not vital to the story to show Asha/Yara present at the Kingsmoot (because she obviously didn't really have any impact on the outcome). So I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was no Kingsmoot in the show, because it simply doesn't have an impact on the story of the Ironborn.

In fact I would be willing to bet that Asha/Yara is captured by Stannis or Davos in season 4 while she is on her journey through the Narrow Sea. And that she is, unwillingly, part of Stannis' force that saves the NW.

[Timothy Quentin Cray]

Not quite a character 'merger' but I'd be interested to see Quentyn written for TV more or less as Tristifer Botley is written in the book. Take away the conceited elements of Quentyns character and replace him with a likeable yet slightly soft and whiny Romeo type character who inevitably gets spurned and in his desperation gets killed trying to ride a Dragon in a harrowing mixture of tragedy, comedy and awesome CGI would make quality TV.

[Ser Tahu]

Not quite a character 'merger' but I'd be interested to see Quentyn written for TV more or less as Tristifer Botley is written in the book. Take away the conceited elements of Quentyns character and replace him with a likeable yet slightly soft and whiny Romeo type character who inevitably gets spurned and in his desperation gets killed trying to ride a Dragon in a harrowing mixture of tragedy, comedy and awesome CGI would make quality TV.

I wouldn't like a straight personality transfer, but if they were to change Quentyn's character I wouldn't mind this. However, I found the insecure socially awkward Quentyn extremely relatable and would be rather disappointed if those aspects of him were gone entirely.

[BericDondarrion]

My idea

Cut out 99% of Dorne.

They don't need sand snakes or doran at all. No one is going to remember Myrcella who aren't book readers.

And does anyone honestly believe Dorne will end up running things by books end? I sure don't and it would be lame if they did.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

My idea

Cut out 99% of Dorne.

They don't need sand snakes or doran at all. No one is going to remember Myrcella who aren't book readers.

And does anyone honestly believe Dorne will end up running things by books end? I sure don't and it would be lame if they did.

They'll make enough of a mess of things siding with Aegon against Dany, particularly with Arienne at the helm of it all since everything she does is a mess.