Season 4 recent Castings: Craster Wives, Lord Blackmont, The Knight of The Gate...

[Lady Winter Rose]

Could we discuss the roles character will be playing (e.g. Sissy and Knight of the Vale?) instead of nude scenes?

[Longspear Ryk]

Look at shows like rome and spartacus... Hbo figures thats the norm for medivial shows now with nudity

Nd dany missandi sex scene this season its been hinted

[King of the Road]

The sex scenes are there to attract a few more viewers from the so-called 'pervert side' of the audience. Many shows do it, and, whilst wholly unnecessary, is becoming something of a norm of TV. It's best to just not let it bother you, as no sex scene has lasted longer than about 1-1.5 minutes.

[PatrickStormborn]

Even though we don't disagree, there's no need to be insulting. I'm not missing the point, I just don't agree with it. I think there's a weird disconnect where people were okay with the sexuality in the books but not in the show. I am thinking about what I'm seeing, and actually the only one who is trying to back up my opinion with explanations of how the sex scenes do serve a purpose by advancing story or characterization; while everybody else is just saying "well it was gratuitous." So please drop the condescending tone so we can talk like adults. There would be no reason for the men to get naked in that scene, however I do agree that the nudity in the series is horribly imbalanced. I know Theon was hanging dong in season 1, but there hasn't been much of that since then. There definitely needs to be some more male nudity to even things out.

There are pretty much two arguments against the nudity on this show. On one hand, some viewers call it gratuitous; on the other hand, some viewers point out that is often heavily misogynistic, involving naked women and clothed men, and sometimes going so far as to have naked women being abused by a clothed man.

What's the solution to these two problems?

1. More male nudity to balance out the gender bias.

Less female nudity to balance out the gender bias.

Solution #1 would lead to MORE gratuitous nudity (and therefore more complaints), whilst solution #2 would lead to a reduction of complaints.

Isn't it therefore obvious what needs to be done? Unfortunately it's not obvious to Benioff and Weiss, for whatever reason (hubris? general stupidity?). This season they just seem to be adding more gratuitous female nudity: all the pornography actresses being casted, the leaked photos of a naked Nathalie Emmanuel (Missandei), the request for female extras to get naked in a Daenerys bath scene, the return of one of Ramsay's prostitutes, etc.

ETA:

I know what you meant, and I agree it would be nice to see more male nudity, but this is a feudal, male-dominated society we're talking about. Women of low status are going to be treated like objects. You can't expect Westeros to be politically correct about stuff like this. However we did see a male prostitute in season 2.

There's a difference between women being treated like objects in the story, and women being treated like objects by the story. GoT easily falls into the latter.

[protar]

Could we discuss the roles character will be playing (e.g. Sissy and Knight of the Vale?) instead of nude scenes?

Hard to separate the two as most of the new castings will undoubtedly be prostitutes.

As for the Knight of the Gate, it seems unlikely he'll have any significant role beyond being a featured extra (he has no name) but it does seem they're bringing in the Lords Declarant in early, as Royce has been cast and I think Lady Waynwood has as well.

[Mr Fixit]

There are pretty much two arguments against the nudity on this show. On one hand, some viewers call it gratuitous; on the other hand, some viewers point out that is often heavily misogynistic, involving naked women and clothed men, and sometimes going so far as to have naked women being abused by a clothed man.

What's the solution to these two problems?

1. More male nudity to balance out the gender bias.

Less female nudity to balance out the gender bias.

Solution #1 would lead to MORE gratuitous nudity (and therefore more complaints), whilst solution #2 would lead to a reduction of complaints.

Isn't it therefore obvious what needs to be done? Unfortunately it's not obvious to Benioff and Weiss, for whatever reason (hubris? general stupidity?). This season they just seem to be adding more gratuitous female nudity: all the pornography actresses being casted, the leaked photos of a naked Nathalie Emmanuel (Missandei), the request for female extras to get naked in a Daenerys bath scene, the return of one of Ramsay's prostitutes, etc.

ETA:

There's a difference between women being treated like objects in the story, and women being treated like objects by the story. GoT easily falls into the latter.

I try not to take the APANC (American Puritanical Anti-Nudity Complaint) too seriously, to be honest.

[PatrickStormborn]

I try not to take the APANC (American Puritanical Anti-Nudity Complaint) too seriously, to be honest.

Reallllly not sure how this is relevant to anything I posted. A lot of the complaints about gratuitous nudity come from people (like myself) who live outside the USA and have no problems with TV shows depicting sex or nudity.

[HodorForKing]

The only scenes that I don't like are when they are out of character like Loras sleeping with some random squire that is way different than.

"When the sun has set, no candle can replace it."

Totally agreed

[Mr Fixit]

Reallllly not sure how this is relevant to anything I posted. A lot of the complaints about gratuitous nudity come from people (like myself) who live outside the USA and have no problems with TV shows depicting sex or nudity.

Well, you know, the loudest segment of the complainers etc.

I love, simply love Martin's own experiences with "nudity and sex" reactions. Here is his direct quote:

I have gotten letters over the years from readers who don’t like the sex, they say it’s “gratuitous.” I think that word gets thrown around and what it seems to mean is “I didn’t like it.” This person didn’t want to read it, so it’s gratuitous to that person. And if I’m guilty of having gratuitous sex, then I’m also guilty of having gratuitous violence, and gratuitous feasting, and gratuitous description of clothes, and gratuitous heraldry, because very little of this is necessary to advance the plot.

And this one as well:

I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it's madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure. Axes entering skulls, well, not so much.

So yeah. Martin himself has been accused of the same countless times, and I don't see D&D losing too much sleep over conjured up arguments.

[protar]

Well, you know, the loudest segment of the complainers etc.

I love, simply love Martin's own experiences with "nudity and sex" reactions. Here is his direct quote:

I have gotten letters over the years from readers who don’t like the sex, they say it’s “gratuitous.” I think that word gets thrown around and what it seems to mean is “I didn’t like it.” This person didn’t want to read it, so it’s gratuitous to that person. And if I’m guilty of having gratuitous sex, then I’m also guilty of having gratuitous violence, and gratuitous feasting, and gratuitous description of clothes, and gratuitous heraldry, because very little of this is necessary to advance the plot.

And this one as well:

I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it's madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure. Axes entering skulls, well, not so much.

So yeah. Martin himself has been accused of the same countless times, and I don't see D&D losing too much sleep over conjured up arguments.

So because Martin himself has been accused of gratuitous nudity it's not a valid complaint to accuse D+D of it? Why can Martin not have been falsely accused and D+D justifiably accused of gratuity, in my opinion?

[Mr Fixit]

So because Martin himself has been accused of gratuitous nudity it's not a valid complaint to accuse D+D of it? Why can Martin not have been falsely accused and D+D justifiably accused of gratuity, in my opinion?

Why can D&D not have been falsely accused and Martin justifiably accused of gratuity? :cheers: :cool4:

Truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

[PatrickStormborn]

Regardless of whether you think the scenes are gratuitous, they're certainly included with a male audience in mind, leading to sexist portrayals and female objectification (and, in the Blackwater scene, arguably racism). That is certainly not acceptable, I would hope.

[protar]

Why can D&D not have been falsely accused and Martin justifiably accused of gratuity? :cheers: :cool4:

Truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Well sure, you could say that and I'm not going to stop you.

But I think you'd have a much harder time making a case for that.

[Longspear Ryk]

Regardless of whether you think the scenes are gratuitous, they're certainly included with a male audience in mind, leading to sexist portrayals and female objectification (and, in the Blackwater scene, arguably racism). That is certainly not acceptable, I would hope.

What racism?

[That Demon Monkey]

and, in the Blackwater scene, arguably racism

http://i.imgur.com/FjPLF.gif

[drizzlyseal]

The only scenes that I don't like are when they are out of character like Loras sleeping with some random squire that is way different than.

"When the sun has set, no candle can replace it."

I don't really think thats as bad of an example of him being out of character. He barely has a character in the books aside from being good with a sword. The worst thing they did with Loras as far as I'm concerned is making him such a big gay stereotype. Describing his dream wedding and fantasizing about his bride's dress and all that. We get it he's gay.

The sex scenes and nudity don't really bother me that much they're usually over pretty quickly and most of the time they have some purpose. Aside from Pod's escapade in the brothel that still doesn't make that much sense I can't see what they were doing there. Everything else I can sort of see some form of point sure it could have been done just as effectively without all the nudity but eh what are you gonna do. I don't think its distracted from the story too much. The only one that made me raise an eyebrow was when we saw Talisa guide Robb's cock into her. That was like wow did she actually just do that.