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Robb's Choice of the Second Commander


Norse_Force

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Robb is clearly a charismatic young leader in the field so it makes sense that the Nobles who thought with him would be ultra loyal. It also helps that they are in the army that is achieving constant wins and plundering the enemy.



The other army on the other hand has to take a tactical defeat while sitting around the Riverlands unable to enjoy the benefits of a military campaign(at least not openly) while receiving reports how the North, and more importantly, and their own territories are in jeopardy from the Ironborn.



Roose was probably better at it than most, but others in his situation would of had similar idea's of jumping ship.


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Speaking in retrospective, Roose wasn't a sound choice for commander of Northern infantry. Cunning paired with opportunism and utter lack of loyalty is a poor combination. Still, it's doubtful how much Robb knew of Roose's character when he opted for him.

Roose's job was basically distraction - to make Tywin believe he is facing main contingent of Stark army and loose as few men as possible. Instead, Roose chose night march (tiring his army) and surprise attack as a strategy against Tywin of all people - thus losing more people than necessary and harming Robb's cause.

We had a discussion about Roose's campaign a few months ago (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/87306-war-in-the-riverlands-part-two/), so I'll paste relevant part of my post:

I'll admit I'm very suspicious of Bolton's plans here: he orders his troops night march, leaving them tired and sleepless prior to battle. This would not be a problem were he able to catch Tywin by suprise, but realistically what are the odds of that happening? Roose surely must have known of Tywin's battle reputation and was aware he's not the man to be caught off-guard. So why engage him with half-asleep army? Roose's job was simply to keep Tywin busy and make him think he's battling Robb's army, all while preserving most of his army. Because of Bolton's mistakes (intentional or not), Starks probably lost much more men then they should have. While Bolton was probably not planning betrayal yet, he may have deliberately weakened armies of other Northern lords, in order to improve his post-war position. All at the expense of Starks and North, of course.

Other thing I'll note here is Bolton's lack of use of something Sun Tzu calls potential energy. Tywin was unaware of Robb's plans and disdainfully thought of him as green and untested boy who wants to play war. Basically, Tywin expected Robb to make all kinds of beginner's mistakes, so why not use it? Why not deliberately feed Tywin with "knowledge" enemy general is green and unskilled, just to encourage over-arrogance in him? For example, if Roose had not engaged Tywin at all, Tywin would have thought Pup is too scared to play with lions and maybe initiated the attack himself? If Roose simply sent mobile troops to harrass edges of Tywin's army without engaging in full combat, Tywin would have believed Pup wants to fight, but he's too afraid to do so, and, again, maybe do something reckless and stupid. Hell, if Roose deliberatley left large hole on his right flank (or left flank, or centre or anywhere), Tywin would attribute it to Robb's lack of skill, not to potential trap. Instead of using this potential energy, Roose simply ordered his tired men to engage numerically superior and batter rested enemy.

This!

I wonder if Roose needed to engage Tywin at all. Even just being so close to Tywin's lines should prevent Tywin from linking up with Jaime and as Knight of WInter says, Tywin thought Robb was green so likely wouldn't have qualms about launching the attack rather than waiting for the North to assault. All Roose needed to do was retreat once Tywin got too close. The one day of fighting at the greenfork lost wouldn't give Tywin time to get back west. In fact Tywin was marching up the KIngs road so it's even more likely Tywin meant to attack the North so Roose attacking Tywin instead was even more stupid as Roose would have had time to choose the grund the battle would be fought and perhaps find land that would have negated Tywins advantage with cavalry or slowed TYwin's advance allowing Roose to retreat to the safety of the Twins with no losses.

And this!

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  • 1 year later...

Assuming we have to operate as if we know only what Robb knew at the time with no benefit of later knowledge, I probably would have chosen Roose too. It's got to be a high lord (or at least someone from one of the greater Houses), and Karstark and the Greatjon aren't the right men for the job. Karstark would probably be better at that point than the Greatjon since his sons weren't killed yet, but Roose is probably the better commander for this sort of plan. The Blackfish (as others have said) would have been the best choice, but Robb needed him close at that time for advice. It's a shame for Robb too, because ASOS Robb probably sends the Blackfish to lead the host and keeps Roose close.


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Roose was the right choice for the time, he was a cunning commander with experience, the boltons hadn't rebelled for a few centuries at least and the guy fought alongside Ned in RR, he couldn't beat tywins host but he did give Robb the time he needed to ambush Jaime and capture Riverrun while sustaining minimal casualties and reforming in good order, plus he captured harrenhall which gave the north a great foothold in the riverlands

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I get that sending the cold and calculating man to face off with Tywin was probably a good choice but I always saw it as threatening. He gave command to the only northern lord who would have the balls to challenge the Starks or usurp them. Robb gave roose a huge command and let him off on his own to his own game which was obviously going to happen. No matter who he sent except some of the Northern lords would have tried to play their own games but roose Bolton was cold and calculating; clearly a good player. You keep your friends close and your enemies closer so he should've kept roose somewhere he could watch him. I think maybe the great jon would've been a good choice. Roose lost a lot of men at the green fork and betrayed a lot of his men too to die. Maybe the great jon could have made the green fork a ferocious battle and the casualties on both sides extremely grievous. If he could have crippled Tywins army than the lannisters were screwed because Jaime already lost at that point.

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