Dany and Asshai

[The Human Abstract]

Good point about Bran's vision. Didn't even recall that.

[thewingedwolf]

Good point about Bran's vision. Didn't even recall that.

It was from Bran's first magical dream:

"The whole world was spread out below him, a tapestry of white and brown and green. ... saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise."

[direwienerdog]

I edited the post above, the link is in it. It is one of the best theories I have seen here in a long time.

That was well worth the read. Excellent work with textual evidence. It would make sense that Mel wouldn't recognise BR. Apparently she not only inherented height but eye color as well from BR.

It is as solid a theory as any and leaves so many possibilities available to the story.

[thewingedwolf]

Back to the topic at hand however, I would suggest we explore alternative meaning than Dany going to Asshai (I know I supported the theory earlier but I would be curious to look at other options).

[direwienerdog]

And had we heard no other mention of Asshai, I would tend to agree with you howver I don't think GRRM would have included a Bran vision that mentions dragons in Asshai as a red herring.

The only thing that may make it a red herring isn't the vision itself but the timeframe. Bran sees in the past in his Winterfell vision. Could the visions of Assahai be from a distant past?

[direwienerdog]

Back to the topic at hand however, I would suggest we explore alternative meaning than Dany going to Asshai (I know I supported the theory earlier but I would be curious to look at other options).

Maybe Asshai comes to her In the form of Marwyn? Well at least the knowledge of Asshai that she needs.

[thewingedwolf]

The only thing that may make it a red herring isn't the vision itself but the timeframe. Bran sees in the past in his Winterfell vision. Could the visions of Assahai be from a distant past?

Possible, remember that, in this whole discussion, we are dealing with prophecies, dreams and shit that may or may not be real.

However one thing that just dawned upon me is of Qaithe's prophecies have involved lies and betrayals and things/people that Dany should not trust or beware of but the is "truth" in Asshai. So I think we need to take a step back here and ask ourselves, what does the "truth" constitutes for Dany.

I offer the following possibilities and welcome all additions as I am largely thinking out loud right now:

1. That she is not the last Targaryen (previously stated theory)

2. That Westeros is not the place for her

3. What really happened before Robert's Rebellion and who her father really was

4 Jon Snow's parentage (which would mean she not the true heir to the throne since the son of the prince i the true heir).

Any thoughts?

[direwienerdog]

Danny has the vision if Rhaegar in full Targ armor saying last of the Dragons. When she looks in the helm she sees her own face. The last Targ isn't true if R+L=J. They may or may not be The last as theorized. Could they be the last of the Targs, but not the last of the Valyrian Dragon Riders? That has always seemed strange to me that All the other families were present at the Doom. They are the conquerors or several civilizations including Old Guis and Adelos. I find it hard to believe every Dragon and rider were in Valyria though no textual evidence backs it up.

Who might be her grandfather other than Aerys? I smell another theory I haven't seen yet heh.

[thewingedwolf]

Danny has the vision if Rhaegar in full Targ armor saying last of the Dragons. When she looks in the helm she sees her own face. The last Targ isn't true if R+L=J. They may or may not be The last as theorized. Could they be the last of the Targs, but not the last of the Valyrian Dragon Riders? That has always seemed strange to me that All the other families were present at the Doom. They are the conquerors or several civilizations including Old Guis and Adelos. I find it hard to believe every Dragon and rider were in Valyria though no textual evidence backs it up.

Who might be her father other than Aerys? I smell another theory I haven't seen yet heh.

About the Father, I meant (and sorry for not wording this right) that she accepts he was mad and monstrous and why the rebellion really happened (i.e. the burning alive of Brandon and Rickard, etc.). Apologies if that was not clear.

About the Dragonriders, I do recall GRRM mentioning that the Targaryens were the last of the Dragonlords. I don't have the quote handy however.

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

I think Martin said we wouldn't get to go to Asshai but I have a CRACKPOT theory that the land of shadow connects to the land of always winter....

[thewingedwolf]

I think Martin said we wouldn't get to go to Asshai but I have a CRACKPOT theory that the land of shadow connects to the land of always winter....

Now thats some serious crackpottery . . . I like :cheers:

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

Now thats some serious crackpottery . . . I like :cheers:

Think about it,

Mel is from Asshai

Asshai is where the faith of Rhallor originated from

The faiths primary aim us to combat the others (great other vs Rhallor)

The Others are a northern threat

Or are they...

TLOAW pertrudes into the north East

The Shado lands goes north west so if you were to walk from the wall to TLOAW you would be going N/W and if you walked from assai into the shadow lands you would be traveling North East, it is possible then that they meet in the middle! after all we don't know the shape of the planet...

it also fits in with the whole ice (others) and fire (dragons) theme

also ilyrio's eggs are said to come from the shadow lands

and the link between AA, TPTWP and TLH can be explained this way.

convinced?

[thewingedwolf]

Think about it,

Mel is from Asshai

Asshai is where the faith of Rhallor originated from

The faiths primary aim us to combat the others (great other vs Rhallor)

The Others are a northern threat

Or are they...

TLOAW pertrudes into the north East

The Shado lands goes north west so if you were to walk from the wall to TLOAW you would be going N/W and if you walked from assai into the shadow lands you would be traveling North East, it is possible then that they meet in the middle! after all we don't know the shape of the planet...

it also fits in with the whole ice (others) and fire (dragons) theme

also ilyrio's eggs are said to come from the shadow lands

and the link between AA, TPTWP and TLH can be explained this way.

convinced?

Hold on . . . I need to pull out the lands of Ice and Fire and look at this . . .

OK I just pulled out the maps and I admit, its hard to see unless we know the shape of whatever planet all this is hard to believe, especially since Ashai is at the southernmost tip of the Shadowlands (right across from Uthos).

** On a side note I am now sitting on the floor surrounded by maps from the Lands of Ice and Fire

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

Hold on . . . I need to pull out the lands of Ice and Fire and look at this . . .

OK I just pulled out the maps and I admit, its hard to see unless we know the shape of whatever planet all this is hard to believe, especially since Ashai is at the southernmost tip of the Shadowlands (right across from Uthos).

** On a side note I am now sitting on the floor surrounded by maps from the Lands of Ice and Fire

Well glad I got you thinking ;) you must admit tho the link between The faith of Rhallor and the others at different ends of the world is odd?

[thewingedwolf]

Well glad I got you thinking ;) you must admit tho the link between The faith of Rhallor and the others at different ends of the world is odd?

Now we are getting into the some pretty serious religious / philosophical discussion and risk derailing a fine thread. However, I have a thread where we can discuss this at lenght. PM me and I'll send you the link, we can pick it up there.

[Riptide]

Aerys is Dany's father not grandfather.

[thewingedwolf]

Aerys is Dany's father not grandfather.

Correct. Apologize, let me edit the post.

[Martini Sigil]

Just a thought... perhaps the "go east to go west" thing was meant that Dany would not go to Westeros via the Narrow sea, but from the east coast of Essos (Asshai) toawards the iron Islands.

Has the size of the ocean that seperates the two continents on the other side ever been mentioned? Is this at all plausible?

[Nymeria Stone]

Possible, remember that, in this whole discussion, we are dealing with prophecies, dreams and shit that may or may not be real.

However one thing that just dawned upon me is of Qaithe's prophecies have involved lies and betrayals and things/people that Dany should not trust or beware of but the is "truth" in Asshai. So I think we need to take a step back here and ask ourselves, what does the "truth" constitutes for Dany.

I offer the following possibilities and welcome all additions as I am largely thinking out loud right now:

1. That she is not the last Targaryen (previously stated theory)

2. That Westeros is not the place for her

3. What really happened before Robert's Rebellion and who her father really was

4 Jon Snow's parentage (which would mean she not the true heir to the throne since the son of the prince i the true heir).

Any thoughts?

I like this possibilities, but I'm not sure about the third one. Both Barristan and Jorah hinted how her father really was, but Dany wouldn't pay any mind. Assuming she'll ever know and believe about this, it will be Selmy who will tell her how he saw Aerys burn Rickard and Brandon, as she once asked him to tell her something about Aerys. (He never did, due to something interrupting them or whatever).

[Nymeria Stone]

I also found the interview Martin said we wouldn't get to Asshai, if you guys want to check that out.

http://blog.indigo.ca/fiction/item/512-an-interview-with-george-r-r-martin-part-one.html

But that doesn't rule out the possibility of some Asshai flashbacks by Dany or even Bran/Melisandre connections, as GRRM says:

"Actually Asshai’s another question; it’s kind of at the other end of the world. I’m not sure if we’ll actually ever go to Asshai. You may learn more about it through Melisandre or other people remembering it or talking about it."