Freypeat! Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Martin spends most of these books showing how prophesies are ridiculous distractions of the powerful. Melisandre is often wrong, Cersei follows prophesy to her detriment, etc, all while the small folk suffer, So how are we really expecting him to follow through on AA and phone Prince? Ah, because it is called "a song of ice and fire." Does anyone else wrestle with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearIslander Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 We never get deadlines from GRRM that were promised. So why would we get a prince? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 The prophecies themselves are fine and in general seem to eventually be fulfilled. The trouble comes when people try to interpret them or get actionable intelligence from them. Human beings allowing themselves to be ruined by prophecy is a flaw in the human, not a flaw in the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowisnobastard Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Martin spends most of these books showing how prophesies are ridiculous distractions of the powerful. Melisandre is often wrong, Cersei follows prophesy to her detriment, etc, all while the small folk suffer, So how are we really expecting him to follow through on AA and phone Prince? Ah, because it is called "a song of ice and fire." Does anyone else wrestle with this? He will give us the prince and AA when the next books come out. Of course they will be one of the last things revealed since they are one of the main points. I just hope they get published before something happens to the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidenSchumacher Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 He will give us the prince and AA when the next books come out. Of course they will be one of the last things revealed since they are one of the main points. I just hope they get published before something happens to the man You would think he has to wouldn't you? But perhaps he isn't decided if it's Jon, Dany, or even Bran or Stannis. In particular Jon and Dany would be like Harry Potter and Neville Longbottom. They both meet the conditions of the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 You would think he has to wouldn't you? But perhaps he isn't decided if it's Jon, Dany, or even Bran or Stannis. In particular Jon and Dany would be like Harry Potter and Neville Longbottom. They both meet the conditions of the prophecy. I can see this. Like, I think GRRM himself knows who's going to fulfill it. But until then, it's reasonably that multiple people could fulfill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingslayer Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I detest this Azor Azai, PTWP, chosen-one nonsense. This is being way too Harrypotterish... I believe many think this way too. Lots of asoiaf fans are captivated by its political focus with a handful of fantasy. If those chosen one prophecies turn out to be genuine, the series will become too much engrossed in the fantastical, heroic elements, and lots of fans will be disappointed I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowisnobastard Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I can see this. Like, I think GRRM himself knows who's going to fulfill it. But until then, it's reasonably that multiple people could fulfill it. Agreed that's why there are so many parallels/vagueness in the prophesies, he means to keep us guessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I detest this Azor Azai, PTWP, chosen-one nonsense. This is being way too Harrypotterish... I believe many think this way too. Lots of asoiaf fans are captivated by its political focus with a handful of fantasy. If those chosen one prophecies turn out to be genuine, the series will become too much engrossed in the fantastical, heroic elements, and lots of fans will be disappointed I bet. You must have a crystal ball to know that. You're making huge assumptions about the heroic element. Trust in Grrm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 GRRM likes leaving things for the reader to solve, so I don't think there will not be any "Oracle" confirming who it is but many people fulfilling the requirements whiles its actually one person but he wont confirm who it is maybe until the GRRMillion. ETA: So maybe at the end of the series people will still be debating who AAR really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I detest this Azor Azai, PTWP, chosen-one nonsense. This is being way too Harrypotterish... I believe many think this way too. Lots of asoiaf fans are captivated by its political focus with a handful of fantasy. If those chosen one prophecies turn out to be genuine, the series will become too much engrossed in the fantastical, heroic elements, and lots of fans will be disappointed I bet. Hum, I don't know. Before I read aDwD I was like "Hell, yeah, the political aspect of the series kicks ass! Just keep it comin', Martin, we don't need that fantasy shit!" And somehow Martin must have heard my thoughts because he said "Oh, is that right? You like the political aspect of the series? There you go then, a whole book dedicated to the supremely captivating inner politics of Meereen and the Wall, bwahahaha! How do you like politics now?" I know a lot of people like Dany's and Jon's arcs in aDwD, but after those I had enough politics for a while. Now I'm willing to give the fantasy side a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowisnobastard Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I detest this Azor Azai, PTWP, chosen-one nonsense. This is being way too Harrypotterish... I believe many think this way too. Lots of asoiaf fans are captivated by its political focus with a handful of fantasy. If those chosen one prophecies turn out to be genuine, the series will become too much engrossed in the fantastical, heroic elements, and lots of fans will be disappointed I bet.So let me get this straight.... You accept that there are several types of undead, possible fairy type creatures (Others), magic, dragons, warlocks, wargs, dire wolves, giants, magical blades, people capable of resurrection, long winters, sorcerers, glass candles and faceless men, but you don't believe in a savior.....I'm sorry but I don't understand your thought process regarding these novels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingslayer Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 You must have a crystal ball to know that. You're making huge assumptions about the heroic element. Trust in Grrm. Ok I should trust Grrm... But I will still be disappointed if those chosen ones are actually true. I know a lot of people like Dany's and Jon's arcs in aDwD, but after those I had enough politics for a while. Now I'm willing to give the fantasy side a chance I sort of felt the same way as you. I liked the politics in the south, the wars. Jon's politics were interesting, but I didn't find it as fascinating as them or Cersei's in AFFC (of course many others may feel vice versa though). But Dany's arc... Her blunders were disturbing, although Grrm was probably intending this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Actually, I am quite interested to find out what George does with the whole fantasy "savior" trope. I think he'll have an interesting take on it. I do think it's possible more than 1 person will meet the criteria (for example: both Jon and Dany), leaving folks to choose what savior they follow (as they choose the king they follow early in the story). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingslayer Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 So let me get this straight.... You accept that there are several types of undead, possible fairy type creatures (Others), magic, dragons, warlocks, wargs, dire wolves, giants, magical blades, people capable of resurrection, long winters, sorcerers, glass candles and faceless men, but you don't believe in a savior.....I'm sorry but I don't understand your thought process regarding these novels I don't see why I must believe in heroes or saviour just because I'm okay with magic. (Btw I hate dragons. They are ugly and stupid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I detest this Azor Azai, PTWP, chosen-one nonsense. This is being way too Harrypotterish... I believe many think this way too. Lots of asoiaf fans are captivated by its political focus with a handful of fantasy. If those chosen one prophecies turn out to be genuine, the series will become too much engrossed in the fantastical, heroic elements, and lots of fans will be disappointed I bet. It's a fantasy. At the end of the day, despite its realpolitik, it's still genre fiction and as such it's probably going to have a few typical fantasy tropes, one of which could very well be a "hero." It's how he gets there that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Yeah, I'm not really willing to just assume that Martin will just fail at telling a good story after I've enjoyed 5 out of the 7 books of the series already. We can all think of examples of series that fizzled out at the conclusion -- endings are pretty hard to write and especially a series this long it's easy to build up unrealistic expectations in our head about how amazing it will be, but I feel pretty confident that Martin will somehow crank out a reasonably good resolution to this plotline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 The problem is people are trying to fulfill these prophecies instead of just allowing them to develop on their own. If something is supposed to happen, then it will happen. They are prophecies, not instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowisnobastard Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I don't see why I must believe in heroes or saviour just because I'm okay with magic.(Btw I hate dragons. They are ugly and stupid)You're hatred for dragons has nothing to do with the fact that you accept some fantasy tropes and not others. George has a way of making all "corny" elements of fantasy believable. And he will do the same with his "savior". The saviors motivations and meanings may not be pure but if they save the realm they will go down in westeros history as a living god, i.e bran the builder etc. There will be a savior one way or another there is no doubt, who it will be is the question, hell maybe the others are the saviors, either way I doubt he would destroy his realm to dissuade against fantasy tropes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 The problem is people are trying to fulfill these prophecies instead of just allowing them to develop on their own. If something is supposed to happen, then it will happen. They are prophecies, not instructions. In Grrm's world, free will and fate seem to co-exist (as we see with Moqorro in adwd), so I think the relationship between prophesy and fulfilment is more complicated than just 'let it happen'. Prophesies are glimpses of the future, a future which includes people's (often failed) attempts to fulfill prophesies. Moqorro saw the future in the flames and made it happen. Had he not looked into the future, he would never have fulfilled that. It's like a time travel paradox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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