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cantuse

A Theory: The possibly game-changing secret beneath the Winterfell Crypts

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Well, in that tomb there is.. a complete DNA test result that proves with undeniable certainty that Jon is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's son. Also, there is a collection of 2000 encyclopaedia on dvd ready to be distributed to all lords to inform them of the very theory of DNA, evolution and so on.. so they won't dispute the proof.



AFAIK there's nothing at all in the entire Planetos that can prove Jon the true son of Rhaegar. People have to believe it, people must have faith in it, and Jon must do some great deed, something only a Targaryen could achieve so easily: riding a dragon. Only if fortune will shed a light upon him from now on, then he will end up recognized as Rhaegar's son.




Aegon's return needs pretty much the same level of faith, that's why creating chaos within the country was a necessary step: people are more ready to cling on faith, hopes, great new shiny Leaders full of promises when all the rest is breaking apart around them. They aren't going to put into discussion his legitimacy too much because they will need him to be legitimate in order for the bloodshed to stop.



Jon needs something similarly strong to be fully recognized as well.


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Welcome to the board cantuse! I'm so happy to read your theory here. yolkboy mentioned the harp to me a little while ago and I must admit it caused a great deal of excitement because it meshed so well with thoughts I've had about what's in Lyanna's tomb.



As Arya kiddin' mentioned, I have posited a trio of items as in royal regalia (like this ) Crown, scepter and sword are traditional, but as someone noted a sword doesn't fit well with Rhaegar, nor does he seem to have an ancestral sword to give. The harp though, as you note, is pure Rhaegar and works very well as a substitute. As far as portability, they come in all sizes. Ned returned Lyanna's bones, not her body. Frankly I don't see an issue with the harp, and whatever else was being placed in there with her, all going into one box for the journey.



Back to the regalia-- the crown would be Torrhen Stark's crown which was surrendered to Aegon the Conqueror. I believe this theory originated with butterbumps! and I must say once I heard it I was sold. We know that Rhaegar was a "researcher" and can speculate that he spent a lot of time going through old manuscripts and troves in his youth. The theory is that he discovered the crown and returned it to Lyanna-- a symbol that he was returning sovereignty to the Starks perhaps, but most definitely an object that screams Stark, yet could only have come from a Targ.



That leaves object three and here again, I'm in agreement with those who posit a dragon's egg, especially given the evidence of cradle eggs from D&E. (I also happen to believe the egg will "green and swirly", as in the egg of... well, Egg) An egg standing in for the scepter is especially tantalizing when you consider that the scepter (or wand) was at one time associated with magic. Which particular magic are the Targs connected with? Yep, dragons. The egg, unlike the other objects which would prove love between R+L (harp) and legitimacy of intent between R+L (crown) would be specifically for Jon. If he were able to bond with an egg that would be one thing that would prove his heritage beyond a shadow of a doubt. But just having it there, imo, points to a Targ baby being involved.



Now the final piece of this that had me so jazzed. Being a fan of all things Arthurian I was most excited about the addition of the harp to my speculative group of objects because of its association with Wales and King Arthur. The dragon and crown both appear on arms generally attributed to Arthur, both dragon and harp are closely associated with Wales (and the bardic tradition) and early Britons named the constellation Lyra "Arthur's Harp" Since I see Jon as an Arthur figure (not the only one in ASoIaF mind you) these connections sealed the deal on how symbolically fantastic this particular trio would be.



Thank you again for posting this here. Well reasoned and presented theories are always a welcome addition!


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There's nothing better than people who can show you how to see your own ideas in a new light. I really like the regalia option; I have to admit it is new to me. I should disclose that I was initially a big fan of the 'bridal cloak' theories, but eventually I came to realize that even a well-made cloak from a secret wedding could easily be contested as false.



My section on the Winterfell tombs has always been a theory of mine, that something was in Lyanna's tomb; but if not a bridal cloak what? As I said it was something of a random leap that caused me to think of the harp, but once I started looking into it the harp became increasingly prominent as a likely possibility. Too many subtle mentions throughout the books, too much of a narrative 'fit', too much text spent to specifically mention its silver strings to be easily dismissed. Simply take your e-reader and scan for every mention of Rhaegar's harp and you will find a mention of it's silver strings. I can hardly believe that Martin made a seemingly non-essential object unseen for fifteen years so furtively prominent in the memory of readers everywhere that it would not be of relevance in the books at a later time. It seemed to me to be a very obvious Chekov's Gun once I thought about it.



The regalia really advances (and seems to agree) with the argument that if there is evidence anywhere of Jon's parents, it would need to be something of such undisputed magnitude as to dispel the notion of contention. I must admit I have not had the chance to read the Dunk & Egg tales or that could/would have informed this theory as well. The problem was, once I thought of this 'harp theory' it was figuratively burning a hole in my head because I couldn't stand how 'right' it felt despite my lack of a complete mastery of the ASOIAF texts. I couldn't fathom trying to keep it to myself until I finished my current reread and read D&E. Hence I wrote and blurted it out on Reddit so I didn't have it eating away at my thoughts anymore.



Going back to my first sentence about being happy to see it when people bring new perspectives to one's own idea, I really like your ability to connect the harp symbolically to Arthurian and Welsh symbology. That's a really exciting connection!


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Awesome theory... I can almost see the chain of events already:


  • Jon dreams of the crypts whilst 'dead', with the dream going further than before, leading Jon to Lyanna's crypt (which he finds strange as he doesn't have any personal connection to her, or so he believes).
  • He wakes or is revived, and events take him to Winterfell (possibly influenced by the dream, possibly just in response to the pink letter as was the plan).
  • He arrives at Winterfell to a whole host of possibilities depending on the extent of the GNC and the state of the Boltons, but my prediction is that the Boltons will be defeated/fled and the northen lords will be waiting for Jon, including Howland Reed who may or may not be the Hooded Man.
  • Howland reveals all, and when Jon is initially sceptical he is taken by Howland to Lyanna's crypt, as Howland knows what lies inside (including possibly the harp, dragons egg, crown etc). Jon is immediately reminded of his dream and has a strong feeling that whatever is inside will be significant, and so it will prove as he realises Rheagar and Lyanna were in love and comes to believe that he is their son.
  • Where we go from there, only GRRM knows...

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I've never given any thought to the harp before. I must agree, the theory has a leg to stand on. I especially like the quote from LF, but does that mean he knows it's missing? Or could prove legitimacy? How would he have access to that info? He was not on the council at the time of Rhaegar's death....

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The quote from Littlefinger is in relation to how he endeared himself to the Tyrells when he travelled south (he says this to Sansa on their voyage to the Eyrie). It's a seeming throwaway line, but I can't help but find it surprisingly appropriate for the theory.



Consider the quote less about something real and tangible within the ASOIAF world and more of a literary tip-of-the-hat from Martin. At least that's how I see it.


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@Dorian -I'm flattered thank you.

@Archmaester I have a theory on reddit that the author of the Pink Letter was Howland Reed. First and foremost I just admit the theory doesn't nearly have as much textual and inferential support as the theory that Asha wrote it, but there is a number of oddities that suggest Howland as a possibility. And Howlands motive was to summon Jon and as many witnesses to Winterfell as possible. I suppose I could migrate this and other theories to Westeros.org when I have the time.

I should reiterate to anyone following or lurking on this thread that ideas such as the above are more speculative and generally separate from the core 'harp theory', please don't mistake these posts as ideas that are incorporated into the basic premise of the original post.

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It's an interesting idea, but I wonder if we might not be more likely to find something like a signet if there is something in the tomb. That would be about the right size, the right material, and something that would be uniquely Rhaegar's.

Even that harp is pretty large to cart back from Dorne, and there is still the problem that the wood would likely rot away with the passage of nearly 20 years. Crypts of this type are not kind to organic material.

I don't buy the harp theory, but bardic harps were usually smallish things, like many early music and Celtic players use today. The strings were of silver--maybe the rest was of something other than wood. Or it was very well sealed. Anyway, it's certainly possible.

Incidentally, one key reason I doubt Lyanna asked Ned to promise this is that, as someone told me in a recent thread, she was dying and probably didn't have time to go into details. So I think she would prioritise. Ned, 1) Keep the baby safe. 2) Raise him as your own son. 3) Never breathe a word about this to anyone. 4) Tell Jon when he comes of age. She might have told him Rhaegar's prophecy, because it could be important for him to know. If she got around to it, she might have asked to be buried in the crypts. Maybe include some object.

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My theory's contention is that Ned would have no problem with the first three, in fact he would probably do them without even being asked. Lyanna, knowing her brother probably wouldn't waste her last breaths on things that Ned would already do, but on something he wouldn't want to do.

And since there is never a moment where Ned's internal thoughts reveal any intention of telling Jon (other than the cathartic, reflective time in the Black Cells) it implies he never promised to tell Jon. There is never any mention of possible or eventual relief from his guilt.

Your only remaining choices are that Ned promised to never tell anyone or that he promised to bury her in the crypts. The notion that he promised to never tell anyone runs counter to his general anti-lying principles and the fact that he suddenly felt like telling Jon while in prison. I am on a bus or I would link my argument that Ned didn't even lie at his public confession to support this allegation.

It's also more consistent with Ned's thoughts that he bears the sole responsibility of deciding when and if to tell Jon; his regrets never mention any notion of a shared vow or promise that might absolve or reassure him that he is doing the right thing. It's especially notable that he feels shame when he thinks of Jon while in the black cells, as if he suddenly realizes he's made a morally wrong choice; if it had been for a promise to Lyanna he would likely find some solace in the fact that it was a promise to a dying sister that kept him quiet and not his own choices. Notice at that moment he surprisingly does NOT think about Lyanna's promise (because the decision to reveal his ancestry wasn't part of her promise).

Thus it seems likely that the promise was about her burial.

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Very nicely laid out analysis OP...but it begs a small question;



Knowing Ned's attitude to NW deserter's and oathbreakers as explicitly shown in Chapter 1, and hearing first hand from the deserter that the White Walkers are back...also hearing from Benjen how dangerous it's getting north of the wall and knowing Benjen would be out ranging...and IF he knows that Jon is R+Ls son and TPTWP (and therefore somewhat important), then why would Ned allow him to take the black? And send him north with a Lannister no less??



Knowing that in order to fulfill whatever destiny Jon may have, he would have to not only renege on his NW oaths, but survive against white walkers, a wildling army on the move, and winter in an under-manned, under-fed group of convicted murderers, rapists and other criminals sounds very un-Neddish to me.



Edit: forgot the fact that he was also sending Jon to a guy whose son he condemned to death!


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Why would it even occur to Jon to go down into the tombs and desecrate graves? Would he just wake up one morning and decide, gee, I know what I want to do today.... journey all the way down to Winterfell and dig up some graves for no particular reason whatsoever.


On the other hand, Mance has already shown interest in these tombs. I can picture him desecrating graves, looking for something, just like he was looking for that horn for so long. But it he found something that Jon should see, do you think he'd tell him/show him?


PS: Still looking forward to finding out why the wolf was scared to go into the tombs. Seems to me if it was just a harp, cloak, crown, whatever down there.... why would the wolf be scared of it?


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I personally don't think Ned ever wanted to tell Jon, and related to that he did not strike me as a strong believer of magic and prophecy. Since AA and TPTWP seem largely rooted in older Targaryen texts and the religion of the red priests, it's unlikely Ned thought much of that stuff other than to suggest the belief in that hokum pretty much caused Roberts Rebellion.

In the OP and in several of my comments I lay out why Ned would never want to tell Jon his ancestry. Jon going to the Wall is a handy way for Jon to remain under the tutelage of his uncle, find a family that might welcome him more openly that Catelyn did, shed his insecurity related to his uncertain self-worth and remove Jon as a potential threat to the realm. Besides, Jon wanted to go There are just too many 'wins' for Ned and the secrecy of Jon's heritage by letting Jon take the black.

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@Brienne for Queen,

This is covered in the theory, look under the section on 'tomb selection'. Mance is a viable option as well, but with the 3EC's knack for showing up at near-death experiences (Bran, Jojen), Bloodraven seems a likely possibility. Plus there is the notion that Jon is forced to complete his dream (see the OP section I mentioned).

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Note: This was originally a post I made to the asoiaf subreddit, located here http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1py3ee/spoilers_all_i_know_the_gamechanging_secret_in/. I received a good deal of positive feedback including a few private messages suggesting I post it here. Hence I'm following their advise and posting the theory here.

Note: I've had a few people mildy upset after reading this on Reddit, because they felt it was so sure it was more of a future spoiler than a theory. You've been warned.

--- original post ---

Last Revised Nov 9th, 2013

NOTE: This revision incorporates numerous clarifications based on comment feedback. The exact original text of this post can be found at http://goo.gl/JI4ovL

The Theory

Rhaegar's unique silver-stringed harp is in Lyanna's tomb.

"Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked.

"He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire."

— ACOK, Daenerys IV

The quote is about Aegon and it's between Elia and Rhaegar. Recall what Marwyn says, "Prophecy is like a treacherous woman". Rhaegar may have been wrong about Aegon; or more likely he believes that one, all or any of the three 'heads of the dragon' are/is the prince that was promised.

Thematically it's more sensible if Jon Snow is the prince that was promised and especially when you consider his parentage. Simply combine the Stark and Targaryen words. This isn't exactly a novel concept, many ASOIAF fans have thought the same.

The Importance of Legitimacy

I was deeply conflicted when I first read ADWD. I've been a longtime believer in the R+L=J theory, so I have a personal bias. I struggled with this bias over Aegon/Young Griff, but intellectually I knew I couldn't answer the question of who is actually legitimate.

It then occurred to me that the more practical question is how to prove said legitimacy. This poses a challenge to both Aegon and Jon. Looking at them closely:

Aegon

It's not enough to just show up looking like a Targaryen or declaring yourself one; you need legitimacy, you need proof. The lords of Westeros already doubt his legitimacy so he must prove it or subjugate them all. At some point winning bannermen via a legitimate claim will be more valuable than conflict. It doesn't help that he's backed by the Golden Company either. It is telling that he and his advisors all know this, which is why he is initially bent on securing Daenerys's hand in marriage; so he has her blood and her dragons to establish him.


Jon

He's supposedly dead. Keep in mind, if the notion of establishing some connection between Jon and Rhaegar is important to the story irrespective of his living status, then this theory is still useful. No one aside from Howland Reed has knowledge of Jon's heritage, so he has no self-driven need to find something like this harp. But for those of us who would like to see him revealed as a bastard- or trueborn Targaryen, Azor Ahai or the prince that was promised, he must also prove it to himself and/or others.

So obviously we then ask "What would significantly bolster a claim of Targaryen ancestry?" My thoughts immediately ran to the Valyrian swords Dark Sister and Blackfyre. Unfortunately both are associated with bastard lines of Targaryens, each attainted with histories that would actually detract from a pretenders' legitimacy, even if I think Bloodraven is a badass. Both have also gone unseen for a number of years and there could be serious logistical questions regarding whether they've stayed in families of true or bastard Targaryen blood.

But this thought process is revealing; we readers inherently know that if any kind of proof exists; it will be something both

1. Well-known to the high lords and ladies of the realm

2. Universally recognized as a symbol of the true Targaryen lineage

We can also exploit some knowledge of factors that exist outside of the books themselves. In the fifth book of a seven book series, it would be sophomoric to introduce a new piece of evidence to the story merely for the sake of answering the riddle of legitimacy. It would be seen by readers as a cop-out. GRRM has already stated that he wants to avoid writing such an ending to the series because he was unhappy with the ending of Lost. Additionally, knowing GRRM, the evidence is likely something lurking beneath our very noses. The kind of thing we'll kick ourselves over when you look back.

So while I was brainstorming every possible Targaryen artifact, tome and treasure I had a sudden tangential thought, Rhaegar never wanted to be a fighter, he only did it to meet Lyanna. He would have much rather continued playing his harp. That idea may not be true and it's not important to this theory; only the fact that the harp jumped into my mind. That's when the epiphany hit me like an anvil. It's that damn harp.

A Reluctant Agreement to a Tricky Promise

I can't deductively prove that harp is in Lyanna's tomb. What I did was speculate the circumstances that led to it's being there with a high degree of confidence. I then considered this theory against alternatives using the notions of 'least complicated' and 'most relevant to the narrative' to arrive at the conclusion that this is more likely that any alternatives. It is a puzzle piece that solves more of the puzzle than any other possibility.

The circumstances regarding how the harp ends up in Lyanna's tomb:

  • Rhaegar left it at the Tower of Joy

    Rhaegar loved to play his harp. It's something everyone familiar with him says. He elopes with Lyanna for almost a year before returning to King's Landing and then to his doom at the Trident. It's unlikely that Rhaegar would leave his harp behind while 'retreating' to the Tower of Joy.

    After the outbreak of Robert's Rebellion, it appears he waited until it was clear that Lyanna was with child. Assuming he planned on returning, it is likely he would not carry things to war that he didn't plan on using or would be coming back to. Taking it to war or to King's Landing also puts it at risk of being destroyed should he lose. He also may have left it as a symbol for Lyanna of his affection and promise to return.

    At the very least, there has been no mention of it at any time during or after Robert's Rebellion, implying it vanished somewhere.

    Rhaegar may have calculated the odds of his own demise. Leaving the harp also may have been a deliberate attempt to leave a trace of his lineage; P* This would be based on the fact that his harp is so unique, it's presence in the wrong place would suggest a relationship with Rhaegar.

    Now we all know what happened after that. The Battle of the Trident, the fight at the Tower of Joy. Promise Me, Ned; and a bed of blood. Or do we?


  • "Promise me, Ned" and Eddard's reluctance.

    Imagine someone saying to you "Promise me ,<yourname>". Imagine it being said multiple times. If you're like me, the most immediate thing that comes to mind is someone asking you to vow to do something you'd be otherwise reluctant to do or something they might not otherwise trust that you'll do; i.e., "Promise me you'll clean this mess up", means "I know you don't want to do it, but please do it."

    As existing theories point out, asking to be buried in the Winterfell crypts seems mundane for a dying wish (ironic after you read this theory). The real reason is shown below, but first we need context.

    Ned loves his family and as shown at his death is willing to lie when necessary to protect his kin. I have no doubt that even if Lyanna hadn't asked him, he would have taken Jon in. As many challenges as he would incur from adopting Jon, he would do it. But going back to what I said about the nature of asking promises of others, Lyanna most likely asked him to do something he was apprehensive about. What seems likely is that she is asking him to preserve Jon's heritage, which is something Ned would never want to do. Remember that Ned has endured the loss of his father, his brother, Jon's half-brother and half-sister and is witnessing the death of his sister. Any sane man would be understandably traumatized. He's seen too much death and war. With the apparent end of the Targaryen dynasty at hand, there seems to be no practical reason to ever telling Jon his ancestry. Such would only re-open wounds just starting to heal (at that time), tarnish Lyanna's image to the kingdom, and likely result in Jon's death both as a Targaryen and as a bastard pretender (consider that the nature of his parentage recalls the bastards of the Blackfyre Rebellion).

    There are several possible reasons why Lyanna could want Jon to know his bloodline:

    She also believes in the prophecy of the prince that was promised.

    She doesn't want him to live never knowing who his mother and father are.

    'It all can't have been for nothing'. She does this for the personal reasons of wanting to feel like her and Rhaegar's deaths weren't just for a vain cause.

    I surmise that either Ned would vocally argue that he would never tell Jon or that Lyanna just implicitly knows he doesn't want to.


  • Lyanna demands that Ned promise to bury her in Winterfell. With some personal effects (harp included).

    It stands to reason that if Lyanna really felt that there must be some final way for Jon to find out, or that some evidence (even dubious) her liaison with Rhaegar was mutual should be preserved, Lyanna would have to demand a promise from Ned. A promise that he could keep, that didn't seem to put too many people at risk. While asking to be buried in the crypts in Winterfell is unusual because no women are buried there, it's a far cry less hazardous than telling Jon who his parents are. It's further plausible that if there was any evidence of their relationship, she could have easily convinced him that hiding it in her tomb would be the best way to conceal it.

    This creates a beautiful synergy between the original, straight-forward interpretations of 'Promise me, Ned' readers first have, and the more intuitive interpretations put forth by the R+L=J theorists.

The Importance of Tomb Selection

Setting aside speculations about the promise Lyanna asked of Ned, there are several intriguing factors surrounding the crypts in the context of her burial there and the possible contents within her tomb. She may have known that these factors might eventually attract attention to her tomb.

  • There are no other female tombs.

    The sole exception in a population set as large as 'all the lords of Winterfell back to the time of Bran the Builder', being the only female tomb is an extreme outlier. It draws attention to itself on that basis alone.


  • Only the male tombs have swords across their laps, intended to conceal their spirits within.

    The importance of this is entirely speculative; but it could be implied that the absence of the sword for Lyanna implies that her tomb does not contain her spirit and is possibly less ominous, opening it if necessary is less abominable as opening others.


  • What better place to hide secret Targaryen relics than in a tomb you know Robert will never defile?

    Talk about hiding in plain sight. If there were any Targaryen relics of importance at the Tower of Joy that should be hidden in order to clear Lyanna of any 'wrong-doing' in her dalliance with Rhaegar, hiding them in a place where Robert would never think or dare to look is brilliant.


The big question that remains is "How does Jon or anyone know to look in the tomb?"

Jon Snow has had frequent ominous dreams of a mysterious destiny that awaits him in the crypts. Bran and Rickon dreamed of Eddard trying to talk to them about Jon in the crypts, and Eddard regretted things he never told to Jon while in the black cells. As for how Jon might learn, consider the possibility that Jon may have a Bran-like dream or vision while he is dead/warged. If you remember that dream of his in the Winterfell crypts —the one he can never finish because he always wakes up? Well, in this dead/warged state he can't wake up and is forced to finish the dream. This dream gives him the knowledge he needs.

The Relevance of the Harp

What is the significance of the harp? Is it just a random object thrown in the story and being mistakenly attributed too much importance in this post? What would other people in Westeros think of it? Does it tie into an character development, larger plots or even into the larger themes of the series?

  • The harp has been mentioned in four of the five books currently in print.

    Almost every time the subject of Rhaegar is discussed at any length the harp is mentioned. Particularly when characters are reflecting on their experiences with him. The only exception I can think of is Jaime's remembered talk with him before Rhaegar departed for the Trident.


  • It's unique silver strings are mentioned every time.

    And I do mean every time.


  • It seems to have a unique sound.

    When people recall his playing, they often recall that his songs or the instrument itself create a melancholy tune.


  • His harp would have been widely known.

    Not only are there many times where Rhaegar is explicitly remembered to have played his harp, it is implied that Rhaegar played at many tournaments and other gatherings in general and that he played it a lot on his sojourns to Summerhall. This suggests that it has been exposed to a wide variety of people.


  • Major players already introduced have prominent knowledge of the harp.

    Cersei, Jorah Mormont, Daenerys, Ser Barristan and most importantly Jon Connington are all characters who recall seeing the harp. With Connington's looming death anything that suggests there may be another of Rhaegar's line might sow the seeds of doubt in him.


  • The emergence of the harp may help establish legitimacy for Jon if that becomes important.

    The harp alone can't prove anything. I do think it's more useful than a bridal cloak or a document alone, since it has the distinction of being something a lot of people saw during Rhaegar's life; other items can be disputed. The harp in combination with other objects however, and especially if the opening of the tomb is witnesses by people of note, could substantiate his bloodline and perhaps his inheritance. Coupled with Jon Snow's eventually legitimization as a Stark ( :D) this will give him the entire North.


  • 'Waking a dragon from stone'

    If Jon or someone retrieves this evidence from the tomb, it seems likely that it may amount to the completion of the prophecy regarding waking dragons out of stone. This could imply that Jon is Azor Ahai, or instead the person who retrieves the harp.

A Parting Thought...

Finally, out of all the passages in the books related to harps, only one is in the abstract, and is *rather* eye-catching in light of this theory:

"A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - Littlefinger

Every word drips, pregnant with meaning; true to GRRM's style.

| Mic drop

---end original post---

Addendum: Relevant Passages and a Favorite Comment

Here are two passages from the books about Jon's dreams that I think help highlight the narrative appropriateness of this theory:

"The castle is always empty." He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. "Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream." He stopped, frowning, embarrassed. "That's when I always wake."

Also:

Last night he had dreamt the Winterfell dream again. He was wandering the empty castle, searching for his father, descending into the crypts. Only this time the dream had gone further than before. In the dark he’d heard the scrape of stone on stone. When he turned he saw that the vaults were opening, one after the other. As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves, Jon had woken in pitchdark, his heart hammering.

Finally, If you *really* want to hammer your brain, consider this comment from a redditor (my personal favorite from the original reddit post):

You know what else this post made me see? Jon is literally promised. "Promise me, Ned." If she's talking about Jon, and he's truly rhaegars son, he is literally a prince promised.

Jon is Aegon, and that explains everything.

Buried with Lyanna? Bones and a dragon egg.

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Jon is Aegon, and that explains everything.

Buried with Lyanna? Bones and a dragon egg.

Jon is Aegon? And that explains everything?

Please do a thread on this WeaselPie. Gather all the evidence.

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Jon is Aegon, and that explains everything.

Buried with Lyanna? Bones and a dragon egg.

Still with this? Echoing yolkboy-- how about a Jon is Aegon thread? Present some evidence for peer review to see if you can make your case. That's how theories are generally best presented, rather than derailing other threads.

PS: if your Aegon thread title does not include the letters R L and J maybe it won't get locked?

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"Promise me, Ned... bury my bones in Winterfell with Rhaegar's harp!" Really?



I do like the OP's mention that the "promise me" wasn't a simple "bury me in Winterfell" or "raise my son as your bastard" so I will acknowledge that.



For those of you waiting for my Jon is Aegon thread, I have it drafted but... why should I expect a balanced discussion? I never had one before when I brought it up.



And I did not derail the thread. I responded to the OP.

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"Promise me, Ned... bury my bones in Winterfell with Rhaegar's harp!" Really?

I do like the OP's mention that the "promise me" wasn't a simple "bury me in Winterfell" or "raise my son as your bastard" so I will acknowledge that.

For those of you waiting for my Jon is Aegon thread, I have it drafted but... why should I expect a balanced discussion? I never had one before when I brought it up.

And I did not derail the thread. I responded to the OP.

Yet.

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