GOODKIND IX - Killer Queen

[Moosicus]

At some point in the next book Richard is going to come to the conclusion that not only is Jagang doing it with Kahlan, but that she is a willing participant. Despite the knowledge that Kahlan doesn't know who she is, Richard will be devastated. He'll mope around for a few chapters until Nicci and Cara gang up on him and give him a double ass-ramming with strap-on dildos. Not wanting Zedd and the rest to know what happened, he puts on a good face in public. Then he has another one of his epiphanies and realizes that is what Kahlan must have been doing. He'll return to fight the good fight, rescue Kahlan, and kill Jagang, fueled by Jagangs taunts about screwing his wife. After killing Jagang, Richard finds some stage from which to give a speech to the IO troops, buck naked (did I mention that for some reason Richard and Jagang scrap it out in the nude?), which turns them all to the side of life, liberty and the American way pursuit of happiness. Everything up until killing Jagang will take fifty pages, the fight itself will take thirty pages, and the speech will take up the rest of the book, an astonishing five thousand pages. There will then be a one page epilogue featuring Violet, half her face missing and a big barbed namble cock for a tongue, rubbing her hands together whispering "I'll get you Richard Rahl, if its the last thing I ever do." Properly setting us all up for a dozen more books.

[Jaxom 1974]

Do you think your stomach is up for getting us an exact figure? I know it was 4 times in Stone of Tears (once during the naked-whitewash attack (saved by her power), twice in her tent immediately afterwards (saved once by power, once by someone else killing the potential rapist) and again in the dungeons (saved by her power, which she magically reacquired in the nick of time) - if 4 per book is the norm, then that's, what, 40 times she's been nearly raped?

Wasn't her little "situation" with Richard's evil evil brother essentially rape, even though she seemed to go willingly?

Either way, it was still disgusting.

[Moosicus]

Wasn't her little "situation" with Richard's evil evil brother essentially rape, even though she seemed to go willingly?

Either way, it was still disgusting.

Disgusting? yes. Rape? no. She indulges herself and has a grand ol' time of it, the slut. But that reminds me, at the end of TotW she pulls another one of her "fake outs" on Drefan, almost gets her raped. So I think that brings us up to nine?

[Eurytus]

The more I learn of him the more convinced I am that Terry Goodkind is a real Renaissance Man: painter, carpenter, clinical therapist, hipnotist, formula 1 driver, writer, etc.

Of course in XV century Italy there were many types of men but surely Terry Goodkind would fit in one of these types.

When you look at the list of things he's supposedly done it makes me suspect that he's been sending off for a lot of those books you sometimes see advertised in men's magazines. The types of ones that say "I can help you beat the fruit machines", "hypnotise people, I can show you how", "drive like a Formula 1 driver today" and "make millions selling your rape/totalitarian fantasies to the gullible public".

[diabloblanco18]

“I want you to know who you are when I do this. I want you to know what I mean to you when I do this. I want you to hate this more than you have ever hated anything in your entire life. I want to be the one to do this to you both. I want to plant the memory of what it means tot you in your mind what I plant my seed in you. I want that memory to haunt you for however long you might live, to haunt him forever, every time he looks at you. I want him to learn to hate you for it, to hate what you have come to represent to him. To hate your child, the child that I will give you.

Whoa! Apparently he's been watching Richard just as intently.

[niamh]

Also, in that old interview from the last thread, it was mentioned that it took Goodkind 150 hours to draw the border for his map in the books. I assume it's in Wizard's First Rule, could anyone scan the map so we can all enjoy the border that Goodkind spent 150 hours on?

Here you go.

I wish he'd spent 150 hours on the bloody map itself instead. Honestly. What a scam

[Watcher]

He charged to the bed like an enraged bull. His black eyes were filled with wild storms of shapes.

With wild storms of shapes? I have no ideal what this metaphor means and English is my first language! I’m curious how this gets translated.

I also question the Emperor’s strategy here. He wants to give Kahlan her memory back before he rapes her. But then she’ll have her power back. He also wants to get her pregnant and flaunt it before Richard. Which implies he isn’t planning on killing Richard for at least a year or so.

He should watch this sequence over again:

Dr. Evil: All right guard, begin the unnecessarily slow-moving dipping mechanism.

[guard starts dipping mechanism]

Dr. Evil: Close the tank!

Scott Evil: Wait, aren't you even going to watch them? They could get away!

Dr. Evil: No no no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying, I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. What?

Scott Evil: I have a gun, in my room, you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll blow their brains out!

Dr. Evil: Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't.

[Eurytus]

That has to be the most simplistic map I have ever seen. 3 rivers running north to south. 3 mountain ranges running north to south. Also why on earth would a country surrounding by other countries without natural barriers to them call itself the "old world"? Older than what?

[Zadok]

Here you go.

I wish he'd spent 150 hours on the bloody map itself instead. Honestly. What a scam

Thanks for that. It's strange that Goodkind would spend 150 hours making a border for his map, which he doesn't care about and only included in the book because his fantasy publisher insisted. Normally I barely glance at maps but this one looks ridiculous even to me. Half of the mountain ranges are simply labeled "The Boundary"

"Westland" "The Midlands" "Old World" and the "People's Palace" in D'Hara, nice touch. I assume Richard had that monument to collectivism destroyed when he took over.

Is the little Mud People dot the home of the chicken that is not a chicken?

[Agulla]

Older in spirit, surely.

The more to the West you are the greater your vitality and moral clarity. Now we know what Rumsfeld was reading when he said those things about "Old Europe".

By the way, is there a Kings' Port inland?

[Moosicus]

--Watcher

With wild storms of shapes? I have no ideal what this metaphor means and English is my first language! I’m curious how this gets translated.

Jagang has freaky dreamwalker eyes. They just look like dark grey clouds or something, moving and shifting around, no pupils or irises.

--Zadok

Half of the mountain ranges are simply labeled "The Boundary"

"Westland" "The Midlands" "Old World" and the "People's Palace" in D'Hara, nice touch. I assume Richard had that monument to collectivism destroyed when he took over.

Is the little Mud People dot the home of the chicken that is not a chicken?

The mountain ranges aren't really the boundary, they just happen to be where the magical bounderies are/were.

The People's Palace is still there, it kicks ass and Richard owns it now. Apparently its architecture is drawn as one big spell that gives Lord Rahl a magical boost, and weakens anyone elses magic.

Yes, the Mud People dot is home to the evil chicken.

--Eurytus

Older than what?

Older than the New World. Duh.

--Agulla

The more to the West you are the greater your vitality and moral clarity. By the way, is there a Kings' Port inland?.

Westland is world reknowned for its vast fields of moral celery. I think if you go far enough west you hit the ocean, though the map doesn't really show it. Just looks like the edge of the world.

[niamh]

With wild storms of shapes? I have no ideal what this metaphor means and English is my first language! I’m curious how this gets translated.

Well the "shapes" look like clouds. I presume he forgot to warn the new reader

I assume Richard had that monument to collectivism destroyed when he took over.

No, the people's palace is a giant practical spell to enhance the power of any Lord Rahl by the power of 10 billion. You guess why it's still standing

Is the little Mud People dot the home of the chicken that is not a chicken?

Yes. The mud people, being possibly the only people in that book that have any shred of interest to me, have had real hard luck since meeting Richard. A few guys complained, but got righteously killed for their whining. The rest was pretty obedient after that. But then they got the plague and bloody chickens, and mad neighbours and you name it. Poor sods.

[Moosicus]

The mud people, being possibly the only people in that book that have any shred of interest to me, have had real hard luck since meeting Richard. A few guys complained, but got righteously killed for their whining. The rest was pretty obedient after that. But then they got the plague and bloody chickens, and mad neighbours and you name it. Poor sods.

This is true, the more trouble Richard and Kahlan bring their way the more the Mud people love them. And they were pretty calm about Richard killing one of their elders.

[niamh]

What would really piss me off is the fact Richard and Kahlan feel entitled to use the Spirit house day in day out for sex purposes.

Imagine a christian community lending their church (and not having use of it) for that purpose. Yeah, right.

[Moosicus]

What would really piss me off is the fact Richard and Kahlan feel entitled to use the Spirit house day in day out for sex purposes.

Imagine a christian community lending their church (and not having use of it) for that purpose. Yeah, right.

In all fairness, I think the spirit house is intended to be used by newlyweds for that purpose. As well as summoning the dead. "Welcome to the villiage of the Mud People, all the sex and seances you want, all in the comfort of our spirit house. Please enjoy our women."

[niamh]

Don't they have homes to go to?

I don't actually remember that bit. But they did use it before too, like in the near-but-not-quite-porn chapter. Well, it doesn't leak, so there is that

[Bazzlebane]

What would really piss me off is the fact Richard and Kahlan feel entitled to use the Spirit house day in day out for sex purposes.

Imagine a christian community lending their church (and not having use of it) for that purpose. Yeah, right.

Well, there was Jaime and Cersei in the Sept...

[Moosicus]

Don't they have homes to go to?

I don't actually remember that bit. But they did use it before too, like in the near-but-not-quite-porn chapter. Well, it doesn't leak, so there is that

Yeah, Richard and Kahlan almost did it in the first book, probably in the spirit house. But ol' Dick wouldn't be fooled by her trampy ways and shot her down. Sorta. He could have been destroyed. Kahlan carries one of the worst STD's imaginable. If you fuck her, and you aren't 100% madly in love with her, beyond a doubt no room for error, your mind is destroyed and you become a puppet. But what if you're wearing a condom? Does the Confessoritis STD work through latex? Or could Kahlan do it with somebody who wasn't good enough in bed to give her an orgasm? No orgasm, no loss of control, no Confessoritis being suddenly released.

[niamh]

Sssh, Man, women always have orgasms in TG's world. First time out and all.

Ser Viktor, I doubt the septon gave his blessing (not that I care personally, but it's always the good savages having to make the sacrifices somehow. Or maybe the author entertains the notion of having unbridled sex in a confessional with a leather bound redhead, who knows)

[Baeraad]

~shrugs~ I see a great deal of “bad faith†and “uncivil†behavior on Wikipedia. This is why it has such a horrendous reputation for editing wars and quarreling admins.

Ah, poor mystar. Wherever he goes, he seems to encounter nothing but rude and inconsiderate people.

I lately decided, for the greater amusement of all, that I was going to try to argue the merit of Goodkind's writing here. I'm proud of my skills as a devil's advocate; I can usually find arguments to sustain any position.

So, when the quote of the day turned up (it was the one with Six declaring herself Queen), I sat down to write a post.

And came up with nothing.

It's just so bad. It's horrible. It's awful. It cannot be excused. They should pass a law forbidding Goodkind from doing these things to the innocent English language. In fact, if I believed in such things, I'd say that his dyslexia was a kind Mother Nature's way of preventing him from doing so, and only his pigheaded refusal to give up thwarted this wise plan.

Devil's advocate, sure - but the devil is nowhere near as stupid and evil as Goodkind!

Having that said, well, uhm... clearly Goodkind doesn't want to trivialise the issue of rape by rushing past it. The common theme in his books is always the horror of being completely helpless before someone else's whims - to become, in essence, an object that is there for someone else's convenience. He's trying here to create a true sense of violation and helplessness.

I will further point out that while Jagang has done evil stuff before, this is the first time he's had one of the heroes (not the same, in this case, as one of the protagonists) at his mercy. This is the great end game of the story arch, and all bets are off. The time when the heroes could fight Jagang from the distance, losing friends and allies in the struggle but always escaping personally unharmed, is over. If Jagang wins, absolutely everyone will be his slave.

As for Kahlan escaping at the last moment (hrm, again)... well, the thing is this. Goodkind really isn't writing fantasy in the same way as GRRM is.

No, no, hear me out!

GRRM, and most other fantasy writers, create an imaginary world and then write stories in it, treating it as if it was a real place. Goodkind's world is made to serve a difference purpose; it's a backdrop for choices and feelings, not an actual physical reality (or even treated as such). His characters are not characters are such, but rather archetypes and symbols; in the same way, his world is not a world, but rather a sort of dream, a representation of the human soul.

This is the basis for all complaints about Goodkind's characters being one-dimensional. They are one-dimensional, but only in the same way as the characters in a fable - none of them are actually people, but rather incarnations of specific traits in people. Compare Stephen Donaldson's The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, and you'll see what I mean.

What I'm getting to is that Kahlan and Richard constitute a very specific archetype; they're the Heroes. As such, the embody the finest aspects of what it is to be human. They are the human spirit, incarnate. Symbolically, Kahlan getting raped would be the violation of Integrity itself. This is not an impossibility in itself - in fact, integrity is constantly in danger of violation, as symbolised by Kahlan's constant run-ins with horny and unscrupolous men. But Goodkind has, so far, shied back from this the very worst of possibilities.

He might let Kahlan get raped before the end (as Kahlan herself notes in this passage, integrity can't really be violated by coercion, only by its own surrender), but he might also choose not to end on such a dark note; seeing how much destruction has already happened, he might prefer to keep the core of his world unspoiled.

Now, if you excuse me, I'm going to go and take a shower. A long one. I just made excuses for Goodkind; I will never feel clean again.