Fenice Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 That is a fair point. But by them omitting him, I do not think it lessens any theories or his importance, which is what MLRS was saying. Unless I am mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 That is a fair point. But by them omitting him, I do not think it lessens any theories or his importance, which is what MLRS was saying. Unless I am mistaken. Exactly,,,, HBO omitting CH does not lessen CH's importance or impact theories on him. Because the mystery of CH cant be translated to TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Cooterian Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Good point. As I speculated above, maybe it's simply a case then that Coldhands wanted to conceal his identity :dunno: The whole scarf thing covering ones identify so people do not recognize has always baffled me. Take the Lone Ranger or even the Green Lantern...I mean really, does anyone think those eye patches are going to concel yout identify? I do think that the scarf might be concealing something, but not CH's identity. Just read an interesting post on Shireen and Patchface with the theory coming that he was some sort of carrier for the Grey Scale.....an unwanted consequence of making out with mermaids. With that in mind, perhaps CH has greyscale and he is trying to conceal the disease. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't having greyscale pass as someone already bening dead? Isn't that what Val says about Shireen in ADWD? As for my opinion on who CH might be.....don't have a clue and wouldn't want to waste anyone's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The whole scarf thing covering ones identify so people do not recognize has always baffled me. Take the Lone Ranger or even the Green Lantern...I mean really, does anyone think those eye patches are going to concel yout identify? I do think that the scarf might be concealing something, but not CH's identity. Just read an interesting post on Shireen and Patchface with the theory coming that he was some sort of carrier for the Grey Scale.....an unwanted consequence of making out with mermaids. With that in mind, perhaps CH has greyscale and he is trying to conceal the disease. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't having greyscale pass as someone already bening dead? Isn't that what Val says about Shireen in ADWD? As for my opinion on who CH might be.....don't have a clue and wouldn't want to waste anyone's time. Yeah, I don't know. I think Coldhands goes hooded as well and he presumably has a much paler complexion, etc. So it's all just speculation but I wouldn't have any problem if Martin does have Coldhands being Benjen Stark and the scarf being able to conceal his identity from Bran :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Cooterian Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Yeah, I don't know. I think Coldhands goes hooded as well and he presumably has a much paler complexion, etc. So it's all just speculation but I wouldn't have any problem if Martin does have Coldhands being Benjen Stark and the scarf being able to conceal his identity from Bran :dunno: But don't you think Bran could tell from the bridge of the nose up if it were Benjen Stark? So to contradict myself (which I often like to do) is the fact that CH was removed from the HBO series. Now this IMO would be a nod to CH=Benjen. Let's face it, how would the producers have CH show up, or in other words Joseph Mawie (Benjen from Season 1) wrapped up in a scarf and pass him off as not being Benjen? Again, I don't have a dog in this hunt....but CH's omission is almost a nod to Benjen=CH. Edited to correct....sloppy grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 But don't you think Bran could tell from the bridge of the nose up if it were Benjen Stark? So to contradict myself (which I often like to do) is the fact that CH was removed from the HBO series. Now this IMO would be a nod to CH=Benjen. Let's face it, how would the producers have CH show up, or in other words Joseph Mawie (Benjen from Season 1) wrapped up in a scarf and pass him off as not being Benjen? Again, I don't have a dog in this hunt....but CH's omission is almost a nod to Benjen=CH. Edited to correct....sloppy grammar. No, I see exactly where you're coming from and I even agree to a certain extent. It's just that, as I said, I won't bat an eye if Martin does have Coldhands be Benjen (I believe he is) and that the scarf kept Bran from recognizing him. I guess I'm saying I'd be willing to suspend that particular bit of disbelief ;) Also, I love your avatar because Boorman's Excalibur will always be one of my all-time favorite films :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Cooterian Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 No, I see exactly where you're coming from and I even agree to a certain extent. It's just that, as I said, I won't bat an eye if Martin does have Coldhands be Benjen (I believe he is) and that the scarf kept Bran from recognizing him. I guess I'm saying I'd be willing to suspend that particular bit of disbelief ;) Also, I love your avatar because Boorman's Excalibur will always be one of my all-time favorite films :thumbsup: :cheers: ...that is something that we can both drink to!!! BTW....if you are looking for a different twist on Arthur and one with a slightly more historic overtone, try Bernard Cornwell's Arthur trilogy (in paperback). It does a very good job of looking at England (and the advancing Saxons) in those dark ages and throws in some actual battles that occurred (Mynydd Baddon) plus of course, are beloved Druids!!! Book 1: The Winter King Book 2: Enemy of God Book 3: Excalibur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 :cheers: ...that is something that we can both drink to!!! BTW....if you are looking for a different twist on Arthur and one with a slightly more historic overtone, try Bernard Cornwell's Arthur trilogy (in paperback). It does a very good job of looking at England (and the advancing Saxons) in those dark ages and throws in some actual battles that occurred (Mynydd Baddon) plus of course, are beloved Druids!!! Book 1: The Winter King Book 2: Enemy of God Book 3: Excalibur Cheers! :cheers: Thanks for the recommendation and it's funny you should mention that. I'm reading The Winter King right now. Wish I would have discovered them earlier but better late than never :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Cooterian Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Cheers! :cheers: Thanks for the recommendation and it's funny you should mention that. I'm reading The Winter King right now. Wish I would have discovered them earlier but better late than never :) Great minds think a like. Drop me a line after Book 1 and let me know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 No, I see exactly where you're coming from and I even agree to a certain extent. It's just that, as I said, I won't bat an eye if Martin does have Coldhands be Benjen (I believe he is) and that the scarf kept Bran from recognizing him. I guess I'm saying I'd be willing to suspend that particular bit of disbelief ;) Also, I love your avatar because Boorman's Excalibur will always be one of my all-time favorite films :thumbsup: Bran had not seen Benjen since before Bran's fall, That is a couple of years.-- CH has black dead hands--kind of an attention grabber CH's eyes are now black-- Eye color change is part of becoming a wight CH's voice rattles-- altered by his death CH has been dead for at least a couple of years-- some change in his looks could be expected Long absence obvious sign he is dead different eyes different voice covered face That actually sounds like it would not be easy to recognize for a 10 year old,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Bran had not seen Benjen since before Bran's fall, That is a couple of years.-- CH has black dead hands--kind of an attention grabber CH's eyes are now black-- Eye color change is part of becoming a wight CH's voice rattles-- altered by his death CH has been dead for at least a couple of years-- some change in his looks could be expected Long absence obvious sign he is dead different eyes different voice covered face That actually sounds like it would not be easy to recognize for a 10 year old,,, Agreed on everything except the eyes thing. I'm not sure that wasn't simply a description of his eyes being shadowed, etc. Anyway, I have always believed Benjen Stark is Coldhands and I know Leaf's "long ago" is certainly not "proof" that he can't be. As I've said, however Martin chooses to do it is fine with me but I do believe Coldhands is Benjen until Martin tells me differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Agreed on everything except the eyes thing. I'm not sure that wasn't simply a description of his eyes being shadowed, etc. Anyway, I have always believed Benjen Stark is Coldhands and I know Leaf's "long ago" is certainly not "proof" that he can't be. As I've said, however Martin chooses to do it is fine with me but I do believe Coldhands is Benjen until Martin tells me differently. "four black eyes looked back at him"--CH and a raven looking at Bran Sam simply describes CH's eyes as not blue like a wight's eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 "four black eyes looked back at him"--CH and a raven looking at Bran Sam simply describes CH's eyes as not blue like a wight's eyes Yes, I know. I agree that Coldhands is not a wight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azor Azai Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Coldhands is Rheagar. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Rayne Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Some dead man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Some dead man. Exactly so, which is why on the basis of what we do know I'm inclined to view him simply as Charon. Ever since the masked man showed up there has been speculation as to whether he is/was Benjen, to no result. Its a bit like the R+L=J business, what really matters is not whether it is true, but what does it means in terms of the story if it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Exactly so, which is why on the basis of what we do know I'm inclined to view him simply as Charon. Ever since the masked man showed up there has been speculation as to whether he is/was Benjen, to no result. Its a bit like the R+L=J business, what really matters is not whether it is true, but what does it means in terms of the story if it is. True, but it's still fun to speculate about mysteries...or to speculate about whether or not there even is a mystery. That's why we're all here. I believe Coldhands is Benjen and I believe he was resurrected via sorcery in much the same way as Beric Donderrion, Lady Stoneheart, etc. But I also would not be surprised at all if Coldhands has no larger role to play in the series than what he has already done - namely, assuring that Bran got to the cave and Bloodraven. Although, I think that will prove to have been a very pivotal role. Now, as far as R+L=J goes, I believe it's true and I speculate that Martin will subvert this "hidden prince" trope in at least one very important way. I think, even though Jon is the Targaryen heir to the Iron Throne, it will make no difference because he will never be king. However, Jon being Rhaegar and Lyanna's son will make some difference in the role he will play in the upcoming Battle for the Dawn (i.e. he will play some important role in terms of the prophecy, etc.) Of course, I could easily be wrong but that's what I think for now. One thing's certain - no matter how Martin chooses to do things I'll be very happy and excited to read about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 All things are possible, and the Targaryen connection may turn out to be significant in some way, but on the whole I'm inclined to see it as a red herring. Because its possible to work out who Jon's mother was and according to GRRM there were enough clues to do that in AGoT, a lot of people have worked out that R+L=J and then gotten excited about him being the lost heir to the Iron Throne etc etc when instead what is important is his mother and his being, as Maester Aemon declared him; a son of Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I agree. I do think who Jon is (including his family heritage) will turn out to be quite important. It's just that I think those who believe Jon will ever sit the Iron Throne will be disappointed. That's not how I think he'll be important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdt Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Someone with Cold Hands who must go to warm them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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