R+L=D and B+A=J 2nd round

[Game Of Thrones]

Bran is actually the Old God. Bloodraven tells us that he has specifically been waiting for Bran. That must be because he is actually Bran. And so was the person in the cave before BR was there that was waiting for him and so on. So 1 Bran can't die until another Bran is born. Jojen was supposed to be a Bran but got messed up and only got green dreams instead of the full greenseer. Boom, new theory.

It all depends on what a "god" is, I guess.

[sj4iy]

Bran is actually the Old God. Bloodraven tells us that he has specifically been waiting for Bran. That must be because he is actually Bran. And so was the person in the cave before BR was there that was waiting for him and so on. So 1 Bran can't die until another Bran is born. Jojen was supposed to be a Bran but got messed up and only got green dreams instead of the full greenseer. Boom, new theory.

Can someone make this a video for me?

...but there's nothing about Ashara Dayne or Howland Reed.

FAIL!

[PirateVergo]

Are you implying that Dany isn't a god?

Dany is a mary-sue I can't even call her cliche because not a lot of writers have the balls to make a such boring and uninteresting character.

[WSmith84]

AGoT, Eddard VIII

Thanks, but I actually meant why wouldn't Ned tell Jon/Cat if Jon was Brandon's son. What's the point?

[nastydream]

Dany is a mary-sue I can't even call her cliche because not a lot of writers have the balls to make a such boring and uninteresting character.

Without any deb8 gr8 b8 m8.I'll r8 it an 8.Time to celebr8 i anticip8 more b8 to r8

[WSmith84]

It would wrap up a bunch of mysteries:

Why is the promise correlated with Dany?

Why is Ashara Dayne important?

Why does Quaithe say that Dany should remember who she is?

Why is Brandon equally important as Lyanna in the crypts?

B+A=J/R+L=D answers these.

If Jon is Brandon's son, what does that add to the story? I could maybe see some purpose with Dany being related to the Starks, but why would Ned conceal Jon's parentage for so long?

[J. Stargaryen]

It would wrap up a bunch of mysteries:

Why is the promise correlated with Dany?

Why is Ashara Dayne important?

Why does Quaithe say that Dany should remember who she is?

Why is Brandon equally important as Lyanna in the crypts?

B+A=J/R+L=D answers these.

It's not really. But Ned is distressed that Robert still has a blood lust for Targaryens. You know, like Jon Snow. Robert's desire to kill Daenerys is a mirror for his likely reaction to R+L=J.

She might have been part of the cover up regarding Jon's true identity.

She's Aegon the Conqueror with teats -- Fire and Blood -- not the Queen of Meereen, breaker of chains, etc.

Because it might raise questions if Ned only built a statue for Lyanna; i.e., what made Lyanna special enough to get a statue but not Brandon?

Thanks, but I actually meant why wouldn't Ned tell Jon/Cat if Jon was Brandon's son. What's the point?

Right. There would be no point.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

If Jon is Brandon's son, what does that add to the story? I could maybe see some purpose with Dany being related to the Starks, but why would Ned conceal Jon's parentage for so long?

Inheritance headaches in both Winterfell and Starfall. Although we the readers often think inheritance is clear, the characters and GRRM believe it is messy. Cat specifically says she fears Jon's children's claim over Winterfell. And that's when Jon is both a bastard and younger than Robb.

Now imagine he is the son of Brandon and unsure of his bastardness.

Headache.

[WSmith84]

Inheritance headaches in both Winterfell and Starfall. Although we the readers often think inheritance is clear, the characters and GRRM believe it is messy. Cat specifically says she fears Jon's children's claim over Winterfell. And that's when Jon is both a bastard and younger than Robb.

Now imagine he is the son of Brandon and unsure of his bastardness.

Headache.

Really? Because I thought Catelyn's worries about inheritance were when Robb was planning on legitimising him, as she brings up the Blackfyres, legitimised bastards. Can you quote me where she expresses this? I don't have GoT or CoK with me at the moment, so I can't go quote hunting there.

[sj4iy]

Inheritance headaches in both Winterfell and Starfall. Although we the readers often think inheritance is clear, the characters and GRRM believe it is messy. Cat specifically says she fears Jon's children's claim over Winterfell. And that's when Jon is both a bastard and younger than Robb.

Now imagine he is the son of Brandon and unsure of his bastardness.

Headache.

...and completely out of Ned's character. He would never hide his nephew's identity out of fear that Jon might press a claim to Winterfell against his own children one day.

[J. Stargaryen]

Inheritance headaches in both Winterfell and Starfall. Although we the readers often think inheritance is clear, the characters and GRRM believe it is messy. Cat specifically says she fears Jon's children's claim over Winterfell. And that's when Jon is both a bastard and younger than Robb.

Now imagine he is the son of Brandon and unsure of his bastardness.

Headache.

How would Jon, as the son B+A, be unsure of his bastardy?

---

ETA: I think there is a stronger case to be made that Ashara Dayne's secret lover was Prince Lewyn Martell of the KG.

[sj4iy]

Hope this helps:

“Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.”

She had not forgotten; she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. “A Snow is not a Stark.”

“Jon’s more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell.”

“If Jon is a brother of the Night’s Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those who take the black serve for life.”

“So do the knights of the Kingsguard. That did not stop the Lannisters from stripping the white cloaks from Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Boros Blount when they had no more use for them. If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon’s place, I’ll wager they find some way to release him from his vows.”

He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. “A bastard cannot inherit.”

“Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.”

“Precedent,” she said bitterly. “Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on his deathbed. And how much pain, grief, war, and murder grew from that? I know you trust Jon. But can you trust his sons? Or their sons? The Blackfyre pretenders troubled the Targaryens for five generations, until Barristan the Bold slew the last of them on the Stepstones. If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again. Should he wed and breed, any sons you may have by Jeyne will never be safe.”

“Jon would never harm a son of mine.”
“No more than Theon Greyjoy would harm Bran or Rickon?”
Grey Wind leapt up atop King Tristifer’s crypt, his teeth bared. Robb’s own face was cold.

“That is as cruel as it is unfair. Jon is no Theon."

[WSmith84]

Hope this helps:

“Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.”

She had not forgotten; she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. “A Snow is not a Stark.”

“Jon’s more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell.”

“If Jon is a brother of the Night’s Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those who take the black serve for life.”

“So do the knights of the Kingsguard. That did not stop the Lannisters from stripping the white cloaks from Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Boros Blount when they had no more use for them. If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon’s place, I’ll wager they find some way to release him from his vows.”

He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. “A bastard cannot inherit.”

“Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.”

“Precedent,” she said bitterly. “Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on his deathbed. And how much pain, grief, war, and murder grew from that? I know you trust Jon. But can you trust his sons? Or their sons? The Blackfyre pretenders troubled the Targaryens for five generations, until Barristan the Bold slew the last of them on the Stepstones. If you make Jon legitimate, there is no way to turn him bastard again. Should he wed and breed, any sons you may have by Jeyne will never be safe.”

“Jon would never harm a son of mine.”

“No more than Theon Greyjoy would harm Bran or Rickon?”

Grey Wind leapt up atop King Tristifer’s crypt, his teeth bared. Robb’s own face was cold.

“That is as cruel as it is unfair. Jon is no Theon."

Thanks. So Cat only has inheritance worries after Robb announces his plan to legitimise Jon (which is a legitimate concern, even if the pros clearly outweigh the cons). If Cat showed no concern about inheritance before this, why would she be concerned if Jon was Brandon's bastard? OK, Brandon was the firstborn, so his children should inherit before Ned's, but Jon is a bastard. And Cat has three sons of her own.

Why would Ned not just tell Jon about Brandon being his father at some point, after seeing how close he and Robb were? Even if he didn't tell Cat, there wasn't any reason not to tell Jon eventually, especially before he went to the Night's Watch.

sj4iy, I agree with you about Ned as well, it's just not in his character.

[A Bastard Snow]

Thanks. So Cat only has inheritance worries after Robb announces his plan to legitimise Jon (which is a legitimate concern, even if the pros clearly outweigh the cons). If Cat showed no concern about inheritance before this, why would she be concerned if Jon was Brandon's bastard? OK, Brandon was the firstborn, so his children should inherit before Ned's, but Jon is a bastard. And Cat has three sons of her own.

Why would Ned not just tell Jon about Brandon being his father at some point, after seeing how close he and Robb were? Even if he didn't tell Cat, there wasn't any reason not to tell Jon eventually, especially before he went to the Night's Watch.

sj4iy, I agree with you about Ned as well, it's just not in his character.

Ned is not the type of person to steal a throne.He could have been King of Westeros if he cared about thrones.

[Aeron_Damphair]

How has this theory merited two full threads? I can't believe any serious reader would believe it. It isn't even worth getting into the weakness of the theory as presented. First one would have to tear down R+L=J and every attempt I have seen to do so is feeble.

[greggs92]

I've watched the vids, read the whole thread, even posted a few comments. Im not trying to brag or anything but im relatively smart I went to a good college got good grades, read the books a few times and read these forums daily but I just xant understand how this is possible, why martin left clues in the earlier novels, why he said he wouldn't change just because people figured out a theory just to throw a curveball. I have a few questions,

1 what does brandon having a child do to the story? Imo he was the spark that ignited the rebellion.

2 why would the ned lie about being jons dad? It pisses off his wife and because she thinks jon is neds bastard she treats him like shit. Dont buy the inheritance because jon is still a bastard, and don't tell me ned lied to save cats feelings because of how she feels of brandon

3 please tell me how brandon needs to be more important and play a bigger role in thw story?

[Aeron_Damphair]

I've watched the vids, read the whole thread, even posted a few comments. Im not trying to brag or anything but im relatively smart I went to a good college got good grades, read the books a few times and read these forums daily but I just xant understand how this is possible, why martin left clues in the earlier novels, why he said he wouldn't change just because people figured out a theory just to throw a curveball. I have a few questions,

1 what does brandon having a child do to the story? Imo he was the spark that ignited the rebellion.

2 why would the ned lie about being jons dad? It pisses off his wife and because she thinks jon is neds bastard she treats him like shit. Dont buy the inheritance because jon is still a bastard, and don't tell me ned lied to save cats feelings because of how she feels of brandon

3 please tell me how brandon needs to be more important and play a bigger role in thw story?

1. Nothing

2. He wouldn't

3. He doesn't

And that's why this theory misses the mark by a walltofell.

[greggs92]

^^thats,what I thought thanks for helping me out

[DavosSeaworthy]

Zero evidence to support this, give it up already.

[RoamingRonin]

...and completely out of Ned's character. He would never hide his nephew's identity out of fear that Jon might press a claim to Winterfell against his own children one day.

Ned doesn't even think bastards are a threat to trueborn children:

Eddard, AGOT

Cersei could not have been pleased by her lord husband's by-blows, yet in the end it mattered little whether the king had one bastard or a hundred. Law and custom gave the baseborn few rights. Gendry, the girl in the Vale, the boy at Storm's End, none of them could threaten Robert's trueborn children...