Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

1 Follower

About WSmith84

  • Rank
    King of the Potato People
  • Birthday 05/17/1992

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location

Recent Profile Visitors

3,165 profile views
  1. What an interesting hypothesis! The idea of Mirri using her own lifeforce to heal Drogo, thus sparing her the pain of a Dothraki death... really interesting. Strangely, the idea that Mirri's magic somehow manipulated events to cause so much death and bring Dany back into the tent reminds me of the idea that Melisandre burning the leeches somehow caused the three kings to die. While not exact parallels (as in there might be no actual magic in the burning of the leeches) it suggests a magic that is incredibly powerful and yet subtle - it manipulates the minds of many, leading to the desired outcome, with none of them seemingly aware of what's been done. I've never really believed that Mirri intended to kill Rhaego either. Her instructions and behaviour afterwards just don't tally if that's the case. If the magic would have killed Rhaego whether or not Dany entered the tent, then why give the instruction to not enter? Mirri couldn't have known that Dany would be brought inside and thus the instruction offers no protection or anything. And if Mirri did know that Dany would be brought inside, why instruct Dany to not enter the tent? 'To give herself plausible deniability!' OK, but Dany does enter the tent and thus Mirri now has a perfect alibi: 'you entered the tent when I explicitly warned you not to' but Mirri doesn't attempt to defend herself at all. The defence might not have convinced Dany, or bought Mirri a kinder fate, but why set up a scenario where you give yourself a decent defence for a murder you're about to commit only then to never actually use said defence? It seems to me a contradiction - either Mirri thought Rhaego would die whether Dany entered the tent or not (in which case there's no need for the warning to stay out) or Mirri thought Dany needed to be in the tent for Rhaego to die (in which case ordering Dany to leave seems... incomprehensible).
  2. What Dolorous Gabe said. And she can always use it as a method of mutually assured destruction. And even leaving out an angry Sansa (assume she either dies or is too stupid to be angry at LF) she offers no benefit in Winterfell. Again, it's not about LF really caring about her (I have no doubt he'd cut her throat if the price was good enough) but about him not risking a piece needlessly. Maybe LF didn't anticipate a letter from Cersei, but surely he intended to tell her about the marriage regardless. Because otherwise he was relying on a Stannis victory to potentially get anything out of the Sansa-Ramsey marriage. Without telling Cersei, he doesn't have the Crown's permission to take the Vale armies North, nor does he get the reward of Warden of the North from Cersei.
  3. Why would Roose Bolton admit it? He can deny that he did it to Cersei and still retain the Northern Lords. And if Cersei asks him if he married his heir to Ramsey, he'd know who informed on him and realise LF was his enemy. Also, LF is lying to Cersei one way or the other. One is claiming Ramsey married Sansa when they didn't, the other is lying that the Boltons did it and he wasn't involved. LF conspired to murder Cersei's son; I think he's brave enough to risk lying to her. Roose was brave enough to wed his heir to Sansa even though it would make the Crown his enemy if they found out; I think he's prepared to risk lying to her. Besides, at the end of this, LF is either allied with Stannis or he's sitting on an alliance between the North and Vale (and potentially the Riverlands). I'm afraid that character X does Y so that means it's 'in-character' isn't really how it works. Evil character does evil thing is in-character. Very clever character does stupid thing is not.
  4. At no point did I say Littlefinger wouldn't do this thing because he's too honourable/nice/[insert adjective here]. What I did say is that LF would not risk a game piece, no matter the value, without good reason. LF tells Cersei that Sansa has married Ramsey. Cersei asks for no evidence (and LF has none to give). Cersei then gives him the Crown's permission to take the armies of the Vale to crush the Boltons. Now, why even bother actually wedding Sansa to Ramsey? Just tell Cersei that they married and you achieve the same result. How will she check on this? Is she going to write to Roose Bolton and ask? He'll deny it either way. Will she rely on spies in the North? Well surely those spies would also mention that it was LF who brought Sansa there. Now, in the various outcomes of Stannis vs Boltons, Sansa being in Winterfell doesn't aid LF at all. LF gets a better outcome in all possible scenarios if he simply lies to Cersei that Sansa married Ramsey. 1) Stannis wins, Sansa marries Well, here LF (if he wants to ally with Stannis) has to explain why he arranged a marriage between the last Stark and Stannis' enemies. Sansa's life is at risk during the battle/siege of Winterfell. Stannis may simply kill LF for treason against him. If LF wishes to fight Stannis, Stannis could attempt to use Sansa as a hostage against either LF or the Lords of the Vale (Royce, for instance) or he could attempt to rally the remaining Northerners around Sansa by naming her Wardeness of the North. If Sansa survives, she will be very very angry with LF; so angry, in fact, that she might tell the Vale Lords about Lysa's death. 2) Stannis wins, LF lies Here, LF can present Sansa to the triumphant Stannis. Stannis is grateful, or at least, as grateful as Stannis can be. Sansa will be named Wardeness of the North and LF may be allowed to marry her (if he so wishes) securing an alliance between the Vale and North. Sansa is not at risk for any of this and she will be much better inclined towards LF, though she may reject the marriage proposal (and has Lysa's death as her trump card). If LF wishes to fight Stannis, Stannis has no hostage or Stark rallying point. 3) Boltons win, Sansa marries LF now has to lead the armies of the Vale against the weakened Bolton army. The Boltons will attempt to use Sansa as a hostage (again, against either LF or the Vale Lords). Roose might even write to KL to inform Cersei that LF was the one who arranged the marriage, in an attempt to bring down LF with himself. Sansa is at risk in the battle/siege of Winterfell and the second one with the Vale. If she survives, she will be very very angry with LF; so angry, in fact, that she might tell the Vale Lords about Lysa's death. Cersei might uphold her bargain to name LF Warden of the North. 4) Bolton wins, LF lies LF leads Vale armies against the Boltons. The Boltons have no hostage. Roose could write to KL and make something up in an attempt to bring LF down. Cersei might uphold her bargain to name LF Warden of the North. Sansa will be grateful that LF rid her home of the family that killed hers. LF might propose a marriage to her; maybe she will accept. Now, in which of these scenarios does actually marrying Sansa to Ramsey benefit Littlefinger? Answer: none. Lying is better: it costs him nothing, he doesn't have to risk a piece needlessly, Sansa is more inclined to help and trust him and much less likely to reveal the truth about Lysa. End result; Littlefinger's plan is stupid.
  5. Yes, that was my suggestion. Simply lie to Cersei that Ramsey married Sansa. Do you honestly think Cersei, whether the marriage actually takes place or not, is going to write to Roose Bolton and ask him if it's true? And if it is, surely Roose would simply deny it? He's not going to confess, and if for some reason he did, surely he would mention that it was LF who brought Sansa to him? There is actually a good question here of why Roose simply didn't wait for LF to leave and then send a raven to Cersei telling her that he had Sansa (a wanted fugitive) and that it was LF who brought her there. Also, LF doesn't require the assistance of Roose in any of the scenarios suggested. LF is just waiting for him to be beaten by Stannis or for him to beat Stannis so that LF can finish off Roose afterwards.
  6. Which Lords Paramount are you referring to here? Roose? Because I somehow doubt he's planning to confess, whether or not he has Sansa. And if Cersei has spies in the North who can confirm that Sansa is there, wouldn't they also mention the fact that Littlefinger was in Winterfell as well? I doubt that Cersei has such spies though; Littlefinger didn't have the spies necessary to inform him about Ramsey's true nature (confirmed by the writers) so I doubt a Varys-less Cersei did. So lying about Sansa being there would seem to work just fine.
  7. Oh and frankly, digs at critics' intelligence just makes you look petty and childish.
  8. Except it was pretty clear in the episode that Cersei was arrested that Lancel had confessed. Why would he do so on LF's orders? Varys called LF the most dangerous man in Westeros. LF has gone from Lord of the Fingers to Lord Paramount of the Trident and Lord Protector of the Vale. He is meant to be a very good player of the game. Surely one of the first questions that they would ask is: how did she get from the Vale to Winterfell? And the only reasonable explanation is: Littlefinger took her there. And there were a bunch of Vale knights to witness it. But of course, wasn't the argument that the Vale Lords will follow LF and we snobby book-readers have to accept it? So why does LF need Sansa in Winterfell as their motivation at all?
  9. Wait, Lancel was the 'handsome young man' that he offered Olenna? Seriously? What leverage does he have over Lancel? Ah, and it's the snobby book readers who are vitriolic... *Sigh* Whether or not LF cares about Sansa is irrelevant. It's the fact that he's risking a game piece needlessly. No good player risks a piece, not even a pawn, if they don't have to.
  10. In the scenarios I proposed where Sansa stays in the Vale, LF simply tells Cersei that Sansa has married Ramsey. She asks for no evidence and he has none to offer anyway, except his word. So why even bother with the marriage? Cersei gives him the full go-ahead without a shred of proof, so just tell Cersei that Sansa married Ramsey but leave her in the Vale. Cersei is stupid enough to name a man who is already Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and Lord Protector of the Vale the Warden of the North.
  11. LF offers Cersei no evidence of his assertion. She just accepts it when he tells her. So why the need to actually put Sansa there?
  12. First of all, I disagree that Sansa has only one value. She is half-Stark, half-Tully and, as far as many are concerned, the only surviving Stark. And I also think that LF wants Sansa. But let's leave those things aside. Stannis wins, Sansa marries Ramsey OK, so in this scenario, presumably some of the first things Stannis will want to know are: why did Sansa marry Ramsey, who got her out of KL and who arranged this marriage. If LF chooses to attempt to ally with Stannis, Stannis will want to know why LF arranged the marriage, essentially working against Stannis. If LF chooses to fight Stannis, it risks getting Sansa killed. If he wins, LF will be named Warden of the North. Perhaps he could marry Sansa, though that would make him an enemy of the Crown and I have no idea why she would agree to it. Stannis wins, Sansa remains in Vale Here, LF can present Sansa to Stannis (if he wishes to ally with him) and claim (truthfully) that he got Sansa out of KL. Stannis will presumably name her Wardeness of the North and LF could offer to marry her to secure an alliance between the Vale and the North. If LF wants to fight Stannis, Sansa is not at risk. Stannis loses, Sansa marries Ramsey Assuming that Sansa survives the battle/siege, the Boltons now have a hostage to use against the Vale when they arrive. If she survives this battle/siege against the Vale, I suppose LF could marry her to secure his Warden of the North title, although in this case she has plenty of reason to say no, and of course he'll be making himself an enemy of the Crown. Stannis loses, Sansa stays in the Vale Assuming LF wins, he is now Warden of the North. He could marry Sansa (and in this scenario she might be more inclined to say yes) or not. In all scenarios possible, Sansa being in Winterfell doesn't help at all. It either hinders LF's goals, or does nothing. So putting her there is a completely pointless risk that has no positive outcome.
  13. Littlefinger could just tell Cersei that Sansa married Ramsey without actually doing it. She doesn't ask for any evidence and he has none to give anyway. Putting Sansa there just risks a valuable piece in the battle or siege for Winterfell. And Sansa could have said at Moat Cailin 'er, no I don't want to marry Ramsey. And if you try to make me, I'm sure all of these Vale knights would be interested in how Lysa died.' She had plenty of choice. Littlefinger's plan is so stupid it's actually moronic.
  14. Alfie Allen should have been front and centre this season. He's a great actor and probably would have done brilliantly with Dance's material. Some confessions, prayers and pleading to the Heart Tree would have helped externalise his inner thoughts. And his line about being with Robb when he died would have been such a beautiful moment.
  15. Well, I guess I care that supposedly intelligent characters do some thing monumentally stupid just to service the plot. And again, Roose makes the Boltons the enemy of the Crown, their only allies, in exchange for some legitimacy. Ridiculous. They removed most of Theon's stuff, the tension with the Northern Lords, the mysterious killer in Winterfell, Frey Pies and Manderly in exchange for Sansa being raped and Ramsey having a girlfriend. Each to their own I guess. I'd rather have Sansa's small steps to becoming a political player than have her have no character development (actually character regression) in a plot that requires me to shut down my mental faculties. It did have some good acting from Alfie Allen. Just a shame he was so wasted.
  • Create New...