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WSmith84

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About WSmith84

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    King of the Potato People
  • Birthday 05/17/1992

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    Brasil

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  1. WSmith84

    sansa, arya, and dany

    I think there will be some tension between the four of them. Sansa and Arya will likely think that one of the reasons Jon bent the knee is that he was thinking with his penis heart. And, honestly, who's to say they would be entirely wrong? If Jon bending the knee leads to problems, I could see there being some genuine fallout. There might also some tension once it is revealed that Jon is the rightful heir, particularly if Dany mentions that several times during her stay at Winterfell. Of course, there's going to be a lot more fallout between Jon and Sam when Sam finds out his best friend is shagging the woman who killed his brother and father by dragonfire.
  2. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    I woudn't have minded Rhaegar having a mistress if 1) it wasn't done in such a public and humiliating fashion for Elia and 2) it wasn't Lyanna Stark. Come on man, Rhaegar is to be future King. He needs to have better sense than that. Pick some tavern wench, or girl from minor nobility. Not someone whose children will potentially threaten your wife's and not someone who's about to marry one of your LPs.
  3. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    Well, one is an oaf who probably won't remain faithful, whilst the other is an elegant prince who is being unfaithful to his wife.
  4. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    I've said this before, but I think it's an important point when criticising the rebels: how much would most lords not in King's Landing even know about Aerys' behaviour? Ned didn't know that Robert, his king and best friend, had turned out the way he did or that the country was financially ruined. So why would Rickard or Jon or Hoster know anything about Aerys' mental state until Harrenhal? I doubt Aerys or the lickspittles surrounding him were telling people 'hey, Aerys is nuts'.
  5. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    Rhaegar might have been a better king than Robert (not a very high bar really) but he'd have a lot harder situation to deal with post-Trident. He has to pacify the North, Riverlands, Stormlands and Vale and then prevent his father from doing something else insane. There would be a lot of ill-feeling during his reign and I don't know if Rhaegar would have been up to the task.
  6. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    I do agree with you JCRB about JonCon. Plenty of Stormlords stayed loyal to Aerys, hell even Stannis had a hard time choosing. So it's very unfair to reduce his decision down to just love. We know JonCon didn't like serving Robert anyway because of his drinking and whoring. JonCon probably had many reasons to choose his king over Robert, with his feelings for Rhaegar just being one of them. I disagree on the insult though. Brandon Stark was clearly enraged by his crowing of Lyanna, and Robert was apparently not pleased. Now, maybe that doesn't mean anything, but one day Rhaegar is going to need those men. They are the LPs of their respective regions; insulting them without good reason is a poor move. Can you really say that Elia wasn't the least bit offended by it either? And just because nobody rebelled over Lyanna, doesn't make Rhaegar's act any less poor. What if he decides to call on the LPs to remove Aerys one day? Are the Starks and Baratheons more or less likely to help him after he ruins their marriage alliance?
  7. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    But how much would any lord not in King's Landing know about Aerys' behaviour? Ned was Warden of the North and best friend of the King, and he had next to no clue about the general state of the country or Robert's behaviour. So I don't know why we should expect Jon Arryn, Rickard Stark, Mace Tyrell etc. to know about Aerys' crazier behaviour. Most lords were shocked by Aerys' behaviour at Harrenhal, so clearly they didn't know much about his mental state. But let's say Rickard Stark decided that Aerys was insane and had to go. Who would ally with him? Would Jon Arryn go against his King for no reason? Would Robert Baratheon go along with it? Would Rickard's children side with him? And let's say Rickard emerged victorious and deposed Aerys; what guarantee does he have that Rhaegar wouldn't lop off his head for treason, or hand power back to his father? The lords needed Rhaegar, and Rhaegar needed the lords. Without Rhegar, or another royal claimant, a lord can only remove Aerys by rebelling and hoping that his successor agrees with his decision. But Rhaegar could remove Aerys in a relatively bloodless manner, perhaps even totally bloodless. If anything, Aerys going to Harrenhal should have helped Rhaegar; Aerys was displaying his unstable behaviour, for all the greatest lords to see.
  8. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    What exactly would you have had them do? Rebel?
  9. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    But they only removed Aerys by rebelling and replacing the Targaryen dynasty. And if you were a lord trying to convince others that Aerys needed removing, wouldn't their response likely be either 'traitor' or 'we need to get Prince Rhaegar onside'. Asking a lord to rebel against his king, with no guarantee that Rhaegar won't attempt to stop him or execute him afterwards, is an enormous thing. And what if Rhaegar simply hands the reins back to his father, assuming his father was still alive? Unless a lord is prepared to full-on rebel, they need Rhaegar. Ned and Bob didn't have much choice; it was fight or die. Arryn could have killed them, refuse and wait to be punished, or rebel.
  10. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    To be fair, unless the other lords spent much time in the capital, they probably wouldn't know too much about Aerys' madness, at least until Harrenhal. And none of those Lords have the authority or unifying potential that the Crown Prince has. Rhaegar could unify the great lords around him, using his authority as future king to do so. A lord would have to act on behalf of a claimant to the throne, which is far riskier and far less likely to garner support. What if, say, Lord Stark declares to the great lords that he intends to remove Aerys and install Rhaegar as king? That's clear treason, and if he did that before Rhaegar came to the conclusion that Aerys had to go, Rickard would find himself declared a traitor and executed. The lords needed Rhaegar; they needed a claimant to rally around. So it's not quite true to say that the other lords were fine with Aerys' behaviour.
  11. WSmith84

    Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

    The same kind of people who pushed for Daemon Blackfyre? Jon himself? The ruling Stark Lord? Maybe Dorne strikes the first blow out of fear? People who want to use Jon to further their own interests? Too many to name. I think we'd just be reading about a different war. Rhaegar's only known political actions (Harrenhal, Lyanna Stark) don't depict a good political mind.
  12. WSmith84

    [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    What Dolorous Gabe said. And she can always use it as a method of mutually assured destruction. And even leaving out an angry Sansa (assume she either dies or is too stupid to be angry at LF) she offers no benefit in Winterfell. Again, it's not about LF really caring about her (I have no doubt he'd cut her throat if the price was good enough) but about him not risking a piece needlessly. Maybe LF didn't anticipate a letter from Cersei, but surely he intended to tell her about the marriage regardless. Because otherwise he was relying on a Stannis victory to potentially get anything out of the Sansa-Ramsey marriage. Without telling Cersei, he doesn't have the Crown's permission to take the Vale armies North, nor does he get the reward of Warden of the North from Cersei.
  13. WSmith84

    [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    Why would Roose Bolton admit it? He can deny that he did it to Cersei and still retain the Northern Lords. And if Cersei asks him if he married his heir to Ramsey, he'd know who informed on him and realise LF was his enemy. Also, LF is lying to Cersei one way or the other. One is claiming Ramsey married Sansa when they didn't, the other is lying that the Boltons did it and he wasn't involved. LF conspired to murder Cersei's son; I think he's brave enough to risk lying to her. Roose was brave enough to wed his heir to Sansa even though it would make the Crown his enemy if they found out; I think he's prepared to risk lying to her. Besides, at the end of this, LF is either allied with Stannis or he's sitting on an alliance between the North and Vale (and potentially the Riverlands). I'm afraid that character X does Y so that means it's 'in-character' isn't really how it works. Evil character does evil thing is in-character. Very clever character does stupid thing is not.
  14. WSmith84

    [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    At no point did I say Littlefinger wouldn't do this thing because he's too honourable/nice/[insert adjective here]. What I did say is that LF would not risk a game piece, no matter the value, without good reason. LF tells Cersei that Sansa has married Ramsey. Cersei asks for no evidence (and LF has none to give). Cersei then gives him the Crown's permission to take the armies of the Vale to crush the Boltons. Now, why even bother actually wedding Sansa to Ramsey? Just tell Cersei that they married and you achieve the same result. How will she check on this? Is she going to write to Roose Bolton and ask? He'll deny it either way. Will she rely on spies in the North? Well surely those spies would also mention that it was LF who brought Sansa there. Now, in the various outcomes of Stannis vs Boltons, Sansa being in Winterfell doesn't aid LF at all. LF gets a better outcome in all possible scenarios if he simply lies to Cersei that Sansa married Ramsey. 1) Stannis wins, Sansa marries Well, here LF (if he wants to ally with Stannis) has to explain why he arranged a marriage between the last Stark and Stannis' enemies. Sansa's life is at risk during the battle/siege of Winterfell. Stannis may simply kill LF for treason against him. If LF wishes to fight Stannis, Stannis could attempt to use Sansa as a hostage against either LF or the Lords of the Vale (Royce, for instance) or he could attempt to rally the remaining Northerners around Sansa by naming her Wardeness of the North. If Sansa survives, she will be very very angry with LF; so angry, in fact, that she might tell the Vale Lords about Lysa's death. 2) Stannis wins, LF lies Here, LF can present Sansa to the triumphant Stannis. Stannis is grateful, or at least, as grateful as Stannis can be. Sansa will be named Wardeness of the North and LF may be allowed to marry her (if he so wishes) securing an alliance between the Vale and North. Sansa is not at risk for any of this and she will be much better inclined towards LF, though she may reject the marriage proposal (and has Lysa's death as her trump card). If LF wishes to fight Stannis, Stannis has no hostage or Stark rallying point. 3) Boltons win, Sansa marries LF now has to lead the armies of the Vale against the weakened Bolton army. The Boltons will attempt to use Sansa as a hostage (again, against either LF or the Vale Lords). Roose might even write to KL to inform Cersei that LF was the one who arranged the marriage, in an attempt to bring down LF with himself. Sansa is at risk in the battle/siege of Winterfell and the second one with the Vale. If she survives, she will be very very angry with LF; so angry, in fact, that she might tell the Vale Lords about Lysa's death. Cersei might uphold her bargain to name LF Warden of the North. 4) Bolton wins, LF lies LF leads Vale armies against the Boltons. The Boltons have no hostage. Roose could write to KL and make something up in an attempt to bring LF down. Cersei might uphold her bargain to name LF Warden of the North. Sansa will be grateful that LF rid her home of the family that killed hers. LF might propose a marriage to her; maybe she will accept. Now, in which of these scenarios does actually marrying Sansa to Ramsey benefit Littlefinger? Answer: none. Lying is better: it costs him nothing, he doesn't have to risk a piece needlessly, Sansa is more inclined to help and trust him and much less likely to reveal the truth about Lysa. End result; Littlefinger's plan is stupid.
  15. WSmith84

    [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    Yes, that was my suggestion. Simply lie to Cersei that Ramsey married Sansa. Do you honestly think Cersei, whether the marriage actually takes place or not, is going to write to Roose Bolton and ask him if it's true? And if it is, surely Roose would simply deny it? He's not going to confess, and if for some reason he did, surely he would mention that it was LF who brought Sansa to him? There is actually a good question here of why Roose simply didn't wait for LF to leave and then send a raven to Cersei telling her that he had Sansa (a wanted fugitive) and that it was LF who brought her there. Also, LF doesn't require the assistance of Roose in any of the scenarios suggested. LF is just waiting for him to be beaten by Stannis or for him to beat Stannis so that LF can finish off Roose afterwards.
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