SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 "Gods be good, why would any man want to be king?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Because he is attempting to usurp Joffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Fanfiction. Renly never claims he'd kill the "Baratheon", and considering his obsession with good PR, he'd most likely keep them around under a close watch to show the Realm how merciful he can be. Fanfiction? He tells Catelyn that he would bring her Cersei's head. That is right from the books. Your second line is fanfiction. He tells Catelyn that his Baratheon brother may have a better claim, but only while he is alive, implying that he would sooner see that changed. Killing Joffrey is realy not unthinkable with Renly, and is more in line with his character than keeping beside him claimants to the realm. He can't understand why the two Targ kids are even alive and why the Small Council did not send killers after them years ago. Keeping the "PR" is purely fanfiction. Lord Renly shrugged. “The matter seems simple enough to me. We ought to have had Viserys and his sister killed years ago, but His Grace my brother made the mistake of listening to Jon Arryn.” “She must be killed,” Lord Renly declared. “When I take King’s Landing, I’ll send you Cersei’s head.” “You have a cheerful way of grieving,” said Catelyn, whose distress was not feigned. “Do I?” Renly shrugged. “So be it. Stannis was never the most cherished of brothers, I confess. Do you suppose this tale of his is true? If Joffrey is the Kingslayer’s get—” “—your brother is the lawful heir.” “While he lives,” Renly admitted. “My lord,” she announced. “If you are set on battle, my purpose here is done. I ask your leave to return to Riverrun.” “You do not have it.” Renly seated himself on a camp chair. She stiffened. “I had hoped to help you make a peace, my lord. I will not help you make a war.” Renly gave a shrug. “I daresay we’ll prevail without your five-and-twenty, my lady. I do not mean for you to take part in the battle, only to watch it.” “I was at the Whispering Wood, my lord. I have seen enough butchery. I came here an envoy—” “And an envoy you shall leave,” Renly said, “but wiser than you came. You shall see what befalls rebels with your own eyes, so your son can hear it from your own lips. We’ll keep you safe, never fear.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Fanfiction? He tells Catelyn that he would bring her Cersei's head. That is right from the books. Your second line is fanfiction. He tells Catelyn that his Baratheon brother may have a better claim, but only while he is alive, implying that he would sooner see that changed. Killing Joffrey is realy not unthinkable with Renly, and is more in line with his character than keeping beside him claimants to the realm. He can't understand why the two Targ kids are even alive and why the Small Council did not send killers after them years ago. Keeping the "PR" is purely fanfiction.Cersei isn't a Baratheon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Fanfiction. Renly never claims he'd kill the "Baratheon", and considering his obsession with good PR, he'd most likely keep them around under a close watch to show the Realm how merciful he can be. He promised Cat Joff's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Bugger "rightful king" bollocks, conquering shit is how its done in Westeros - what Legal right did Robert have that put him above his cousins and nephews, what legal right did Aegon have to conquer the 7k? And to those saying all he had was his charisma and popularity? So what? Its popular kings who have peaceful reigns, look at King John of England, nobody gives a shit about your legal right to rule if you're unpopular. Kings like Stannis would alienate his lords and his embracing of the Red God would turn the people against him, especially given that they're devout enough to get the High Sparrow in charge and forming the Faith Militant You can win the kingdoms by right of conquest, if Renly had won, and sat on the IT, than he would be the rightful king, but he didn't so he's a rebel and a traitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Because he has exactly no evidence that the children aren't Robert's, as it stands to most of Westeros he's just a usurper who's come up with a convenient excuse that just so happens to remove everyone ahead of him from the line of succession. Like Blackfyre saying Daeron was the son of Aemon or in RL Warwick claiming Edward IV was the bastard son of an Archer He has no evidence but it's true, so in the eyes of the people he may be a usurper but in reality he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 He promised Cat Joff's head. I thought he promised her Cersei's head? And still, I wouldn't blame him for Joffrey. Saying he'd kill Tommen and Myrcella is delusional though. Fanfiction? He tells Catelyn that he would bring her Cersei's head. That is right from the books. Your second line is fanfiction. He tells Catelyn that his Baratheon brother may have a better claim, but only while he is alive, implying that he would sooner see that changed. Killing Joffrey is realy not unthinkable with Renly, and is more in line with his character than keeping beside him claimants to the realm. He can't understand why the two Targ kids are even alive and why the Small Council did not send killers after them years ago. Keeping the "PR" is purely fanfiction. Cersei isn't a Baratheon. Killing Joffrey is reasonable. If was perfectly willing to accept Stannis joining him, despite him having a "Better claim". The Targaryen kids were out of reach and free to rebel and be a detriment to the realm, the same wouldn't be true of captive Tommen and Myrcella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 No one cared when Egg jumped a head of his elder brothers' children after his father died because of their fathers' nature.Nor did Robert, Jon, Ned, or Hoster care about skipping Viserys and Dany because their father was mad.So why cannot Renly skip Joffrey and his heirs because Joff and his mother are insane?What children did his elder brothers have? Daeron's feeble witted daughter? Or the children Aerion may or may not have had while he was in EXILE to Lys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I thought he promised her Cersei's head? And still, I wouldn't blame him for Joffrey. Saying he'd kill Tommen and Myrcella is delusional though. I am confused, ill-read and beerless. Pay me no attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 "Gods be good, why would any man want to be king?" Because Its good to be the King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 What children did his elder brothers have? Daeron's feeble witted daughter? Or the children Aerion may or may not have had while he was in EXILE to Lys? Yes, those two children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBlood Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Renly knew that he had an older brother. Regardless of when who declared. Renly and Stannis both knew of the incest/illegitimacy of Joff & Tommen, so Stannis is/was king. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Because he is attempting to usurp Joffrey Joffrey is not the rightful king, thus Stannis is not a usurper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Renly knew that he had an older brother. Regardless of when who declared. Renly and Stannis both knew of the incest/illegitimacy of Joff & Tommen, so Stannis is/was king. Period. No, Renly didn't "know" of the incest, neither did Stannis really. Stannis only told Renly way after he had crowned himself, and as far as everyone knows, it was just a self-serving lie. The only people that could be really sure of the incest were Jaime, Cersei, and Eddard (because Cersei confessed to him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Joffrey is not the rightful king, thus Stannis is not a usurper. Until proven otherwise, Joffrey is the rightful King. Stannis is legally an usurper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes, those two children Well, Aerion was in exile and it is unknown if he had any children, so that part is irrelevant, and Daeron's daughter was feeble witted, and passed over for the throne by a Great Council. Was Renly named heir by a Great Council? Didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredOrderOfGreenMen Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Look, Renly didn't know about the incest so he should not have rebelled against someone who he thought was his brothers heir, no matter what, and if you insist on giving him a free pass for rebelling against Joffrey, fair enough, but that doesn't explain why he didn't declare for Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Well, Aerion was in exile and it is unknown if he had any children, so that part is irrelevant, and Daeron's daughter was feeble witted, and passed over for the throne by a Great Council. Was Renly named heir by a Great Council? Didn't think so. If all it takes for illegitimacy is the word of a Great Council, pretty sure Stannis could be easily brushed over considering he's a heretic and that the right to rule is highly implied to be of divine nature. (As we can see with Aegon only recognizing himself King when he receives the High Septon's blessing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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