Thoughts on House Blackfyre Family Tree

[Night's King Reborn]

Reading TWOIAF made the Blacfyres much more interesting to me, especially because we finally got more information about each specific pretender and rebellion. It appears to me that our current knowledge of the Blackfyre family tree is as follows:

Daemon I Blackfyre (170 AC-196 AC) m. Rohanne of Tyrosh (? AC-? AC)

Aegon Blackfyre (184 AC-196 AC)

Aemon Blackfyre (184 AC-196 AC)

Calla Blackfyre (? AC-? AC) m. Aegor Rivers (172 AC-241 AC)

Daemon II Blackfyre (189 AC-before 219 AC)

Haegon I Blackfyre (? AC-219 AC) m. ?

Daemon III Blackfyre (? AC-236 AC)

? son

Aenys Blackfyre (? AC-233 AC)

? son

? son

? daughter

Unknown positions:

-Daemon Blackfyre (cousin of Maelys)

-Maelys I Blackfyre

Some questions:

-Did the two unnamed youngest sons of Daemon I die in the Third Rebellion or the Fourth Rebellion, considering that the Second Rebellion was limited to Daemon II and the Fifth Rebellion had Maelys I as the only living male Blackfyre? Or did they simply live out their lives and die naturally sometime before the Fifth Rebellion?

-Does 'cousin' mean 'first cousin' re. Daemon and Maelys? One way to fit them into the tree is have them each be a son of the two unnamed sons of Daemon I. The issue here, which might not be an issue at all, is that there would be two 'Daemons' in the same generation, which given the dynastic signficance of the name and conventions of naming seems unlikely. One solution is to have Daemon (IV) be the son of Daemon III's unnamed brother (Haegon is mentioned to have had 'sons'). Maelys could be a son or grandson of one of Daemon I's unnamed sons, which would make their relationship either first cousins once removed or second cousins. It's hard to imagine a family tree at this point with Maelys and Daemon as first cousins per the reasons mentioned above.

-More of a theoretical question, but should Aemon Blackfyre technically be called Aemon I, considering that he was predeceased by both his elder brother and father? Of course, his 'reign' would have lasted for probably less than a minute, but such technicalities have precedents in European history (especially French history after the Napoleonic Wars, with all of the abdications and different lines creating 'rulers' who practically speaking were not rulers). A similar question could be asked for 'Aegon VI' during the Sack of King's Landing, depending on the specific timing of the death of Aerys II and Aegon's own death (if like me you believe the real Prince Aegon did indeed die during the Sack).

I hope that more information about the specifics of this family tree is revealed either in future Dunk & Egg novellas or from somewhere else (particularly if one subscribes to the fAegon-Blackfyre theory, meaning that knowledge of his true paternity/maternity might become important to the narrative; in which case, descent from Calla and Aegor would be interesting).

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

With regards to Aemon Blackfyre, I do not think the title Aemon I is applicable as he was not crowned.

[Lord Varys]

You summarized most of it pretty well.

It is not stated but heavily likely that Calla was married to Bittersteel - TWoIaF only mentions a betrothal. I expect that Illyrio will turn out to be a a descendant of one of Calla's daughters by Bittersteel, making him a descendant of both Daemon I and Bittersteel. That would explain how and why he holds sway over the Golden Company - especially if he is the last known living descendant of Bittersteel.

The five year age difference between the twins and Daemon makes it very likely that Calla was Rohanne's third child, and possibly even a second daughter before Daemon II was conceived.

I expect that Haegon was married to a sister (not Calla), and Daemon III eventually marrying the eldest daughter of Bittersteel and Calla (not necessarily the one from who I think Illyrio is descended). Rohanne was still alive during TMK. I expect that her death will eventually lead to the Blackfyres being thrown out of Tyrosh - or at least the Blackfyre grandchildren as Aenys still resides in Tyrosh in 233 AC.

I'm also with you with the assumption that Daemon's sixth or seventh son may have died either during the Third or Fourth Rebellion, or during some other Golden Company campaigns or of natural causes (sickness, accidents, etc.). A subtle clue in that direction is given during the Fourth Rebellion during which apparently the Blackfyres suffered a defeat, suggesting that not only Daemon III died there.

I imagine Daemon III and his brother(s) - we don't know how many children (male or female) Haegon had - were too young to fight in the Third Rebellion but son 6 and son 7 might have. Aenys seems to have stayed out of it as his letter seems to suggests that he took no part in any prior Blackfyre rebellion. Considering that Aenys is still in Tyrosh in 233 AC I suspect that he married into a Tyroshi noble house, possibly some maternal cousin (Rohanne's kin). This marriage could have been arranged to strengthen the ties between the Blackfyres and Tyrosh about the same time as Haegon's takes his wife.

If Bitersteel and Calla had any sons I'd also suspect that they died during the Third Rebellion. We have speculated that Calla and Bittersteel would have married in the early 200s or so, which means he might have at least one son of fighting age in 219 AC who could die then without legitimate issue. Calla's relative youth in in 196 AC is also the reason why I assume that Haegon married one of his own sisters rather than a daughter of Bittersteel's. And to keep up the whole 'the Blackfyres are the true Targaryens' thing they should continue practice incest especially since Daemon I did not marry a sister.

The later generations are (most likely deliberately) trickier. The portrait of Maelys suggests that he was in his forties or so during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. This should put him most likely into the generation of Daemon's grandchildren. Of his cousin, Daemon (IV) - we usually designate him this way, as he was apparently not an official pretender - we can only be reasonably sure that he was not a younger brother of Daemon III and thus also no son of Haegon as Haegon would most likely not have named two sons 'Daemon'.

It is also unlikely that Maelys is the third Daemon's brother or son as he then would most likely have been captain-general of the Golden Company following Bittersteel's death rather than his cousin Daemon (IV). Some people have suggested that Daemon (IV) may have been the son of Daemon III - and thus a great-grandson of Daemon I - and while this would be possible depending on when Daemon III was born and when exactly Maelys usurped command of the Golden Company I'm more inclined to believe that both Maelys and Daemon (IV) are grandsons of Daemon I and first cousins through either Aenys or son 6/7.

My gut feeling says that Maelys is a son of Daemon's seventh son, and Daemon (IV) a son of the sixth son. Aenys' sons may all have fought and fallen at the side of Daemon III in an attempt to avenge their father during the Fourth Rebellion. The description of the Battle and the Wendwater Bridge strongly suggests that Egg chose the perfect sight for the battle and may have been able to slay quite a lot of Blackfyres in fighting in the vanguard/center of the army - Bittersteel would only have slipped away this time because he was not in the thick of the fighting, most likely due to his advanced age.

It would be fitting if by the time of the War of the Ninepenny Kings all the elder male branches of House Blackfyre were indeed all extinct but for Maelys himself.

If Varys is also a descendant of House Blackfyre I'd assume that he is descended from a daughter of the younger sons, possibly Aenys or the sixth son (his mother being the fourth Daemon's sister).

[Night's King Reborn]

I think the nomenclature of the Blackfyres is interesting as well. For instance, Daemon I naming his firstborn son Aegon is a direct appeal to Targaryen legitimacy through the characteristic dynastic name. Naming the second son Aemon was probably because it complements Aegon well. Naming the third son Daemon makes sense as well, as being the first 'free' slot for reinforcing 'Daemon' as the Blackfyre equivalent to the Targaryen 'Aegon'.

Following 'Daemon' as a sign of seniority within the dynasty (first for a thirdborn non-twin son, then the firstborn son of Haegon), I like to think that Daemon (IV) was a nephew of Daemon III through one of his younger brothers, or possibly even Daemon III's son.

Not sure how canon it is, but the portrait of Maelys in TWOIAF makes him look old, possibly at least 50 pushing 60. Having him as a grandson of Daemon I through one of the two unnamed sons would fit in this case.

At this point, until we get more information about the Blackfyres (either through D&E or the Illyrio-Varys-fAegon conspiracy) we simply don't have a lot of information to substantively fill in the gaps.

[Lord Varys]

I think the question whether Daemon (IV) can be a son or nephew of Daemon III strongly hinges on the question when exactly Daemon III was born. My impression is that he was still rather young in 219 AC when his father died - say, 5-10 years old so. Unfortunately we don't know whether Haegon was already married during TMK but I'd actually not be surprised if he only married later as Daemon II apparently wasn't married, too. Yeah, he was not actually interested in stuff like that but for dynastic purposes people would have asked him.

If Daemon III was only in his late twenties or so when he died in 236 AC I don't think his sons or nephews by a younger brother would be old enough to take over the Golden Company upon Bittersteel's death shortly thereafter. It is one thing to be 'the rightful king' or head of House Blackfyre and another to command a company of sellsword. Whoever followed Bittersteel must have been an seasoned warrior and I doubt that the third Daemon's sons or nephews - if he had any - fit those criteria at this point.

And it seems that Daemon (IV) was Bittersteel's immediate successor eventually followed by Maelys and then by non-Blackfyre captain-generals (although not necessarily without Blackfyre blood through the female line).

Unfortunately we don't know when Maelys killed his cousin but I'd not be surprised if this occurred around 250 or so not necessarily shortly before Summerhall, as nothing suggests that the Golden Company was a real threat that time until the Band of Nine founded itself.

[Night's King Reborn]

That's a good point about the Golden Company being led by a seasoned warrior. I suppose my thinking on this subject is built around the fact that Daemon I himself was a father at age 14; I'd imagine that the dynastic emphasis on rapid reproduction would accelerate in exile.

Using the Wiki's timeline calculations Daemon III definitely had to have been born in exile; Haegon was simply too young to have fathered children when the Blackfyres were still in Westeros. So I guess my dates for my reasoning are as follows:

Haegon I: c.190 AC-219 AC

Daemon III: c. 206/207/208 AC-236 AC

Daemon (IV): c.221/222 AC-c.250/251 AC

This would give us a Daemon (IV) who dies around age 30.

Keeping in mind that Aegon and Aemon were squires for their father Daemon I in pitched combat when they were only 12 years old, I think it's perfectly plausible that Daemon (IV) squired for his father at Wendwater Bridge in 236 AC and managed to escape with Bittersteel. Bittersteel dies in 241 AC and passes on command of the company to his protege Daemon (IV), a young man with great promise. Then cousin Maelys decides to fight it out several years later, and the rest is history.

Of course, most of this is simply speculation, and I agree that there are many plausible arrangements for the Blackfyre family tree at this point.

[Lord Varys]

I imagine Bittersteel groomed/chose a successor for the Golden Company among his Blackfyre kin after the Fourth Rebellion failed. But if we think about it we don't really know that his successor actually was Daemon (IV). It could have been a different guy who eventually died during the 240s or 250s and then Daemon (IV) and Maelys actually fought for the succession of the Golden Company.

TWoIaF leaves it ambiguous whether Daemon (IV) already was captain-general and challenged by Maelys in that position or whether he and Maelys simply were two captains claiming supreme command following the death of the previous leader. That could even have happened directly after Bittersteel's death - Daemon being the chosen successor, but Maelys successfully challenging and killing him.

But this would mean that Maelys was nearly two decades leading the Golden Company and essentially doing nothing. I don't expect such a caution from a brute like Maelys. George essentially has described Maelys as the Targaryen version of Gregor Clegane. I'm rather inclined to believe that one of the old guard - perhaps the sixth or seventh son - took over after Bittersteel. He may have made his own plans for another invasion only to die before they came to fruition. His son and heir would then have been Daemon (IV) who either never became captain-general or served only a short time and then Maelys took over.

Your time line could work but if Daemon III was already in his early teens we should assume that he accompanied his father, Bittersteel, and the others to Westeros in 219 as squire. Of course, that's not a given, but if he did that he should have been caught/killed like Haegon and Bittersteel.

[Night's King Reborn]

That's a good point about Daemon III being old enough to squire in 219 AC and getting captured if he went...I really wish we had a firm age for Maelys, that could help pinpoint dates like when he fought Daemon (IV) for the Golden Company and also whether he was a grandson or great-grandson of Daemon I.

In the broader context one thing I hope to eventually have addressed, maybe through Illyrio or Varys, is how the female-line Blackfyre descendants stayed so under the radar for decades. I agree that many of them probably married into the leadership of the Golden Comapny.

The fAegon conspiracy could have either Serra or Illyrio as the Blackfyre descendant (maybe Illyrio provided the bloodline and Serra provided the Valyrian features?); either way, neither Connington or Tyrion seems to suspect a direct Illyrio-Blackfyre connection (at least in internal monologue), which suggests to me that it's something like this:

Calla and Aegor have a daughter, who marries ? and gives birth to a daughter, who marries ? and gives birth to a daughter, who marries ? Mopatis, who is the father of Illyrio Mopatis, who marries Serra to become the father of 'Aegon'...basically as far removed from the main line as possible to achieve maximum anonymity, to the point where Illyrio is a dirt poor bravo in Pentos and an apparent nobody in his youth.

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, exactly, my take on Illyrio is that he descended through a bunch of women from Calla and Bittersteel. No direct intermarriage with the male branch of House Blackfyre at all. Which is actually the only way how this Mopatis could stay below the radar of both the Targaryens and the Baratheons after them. Aerys II knew about the connections between Varys and Illyrio.

In fact, it may be possible that Varys and Illyrio's partnership began when Varys found out who Illyrio was and told him about - essentially giving him back his identity. Illyrio gives us this strange story about him not knowing why Varys chose him as his partner - but that must be a lie. He has to know that, and this truth should make up the core of their pact.

Illyrio could easily be some distant Blackfyre descendant who is thrown out of his family's house in Pentos by his step-kin following the death of his mother/father, not even knowing who he is.

I'm not sure that Serra has to have any Targaryen blood. She could easily only provide the looks for the child rather than the blood. Varys should have Targaryen blood, though, as there has to be some reason why he is interested in Westeros at all. He could either be off a cadet branch of House Blackfyre, and thus Illyrio's distant cousin - say, Aenys' son through a daughter, or the fourth Daemon's nephew through a daughter. Daemon's kin would have not exactly prospered after Maelys killed him I imagine. And with Egg having enough troubles of his own nobody might have kept tabs on Daemon's sister after Daemon's death.

Another option people bring forth is him simply being Prince Maegor's (illegitimate) son. But this would mean that Maegor went to Essos/Lys eventually and met a pitiful end there. Else the Iron Throne should know about his son's existence. At least if he is not a bastard.

I'd also suspect that Myles Toyne was not Maelys' immediate successor as captain-general of the Golden Company. He was in charge during/after Robert's Rebellion and not visibly connected to the Blackfyre old guard, or else it is difficult to imagine how Connington could have bought all this Aegon stuff - if we assume Aegon is fake.

[Hardstone]

How many skulls of former Captain Generals were on display outside the tent in The Lost Lord?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

How many skulls of former Captain Generals were on display outside the tent in The Lost Lord?

No number is given

[The hairy bear]

While we don't have the number, we know that it must be relatively high:

The captain-general’s tent was (...) surrounded by a ring of pikes topped with gilded skulls. One skull was larger than the rest, grotesquely malformed. Below it was a second, no larger than a child’s fist. Maelys the Monstrous and his nameless brother. The other skulls had a sameness to them, though several had been cracked and splintered by the blows that had slain them, and one had filed, pointed teeth.

Bittersteel commanded the Company from 196 and 240, and by 260 Maelys had already stablished the alliance with the Band of Nine, and conquered the disputed lands, Tyrosh and the Stepstones. All this makes very unlikely that Blackheart followed Maelys. I expect that the Company had at least 3 or 4 commanders in between. You can't make a "ring" with four pikes.

[Lord Varys]

There could have been an acting captain-general while Bittersteel was in captivity in 219 AC, but I'm not sure if his head was also gilded as this would have been Bittersteel's idea much later.

The best guess would be Bittersteel, then Bittersteel's immediate successor - possibly the fourth Daemon's father, also being Daemon's sixth son -, Daemon (IV) Blackfyre, Maelys Blackfyre (in my opinion the son of the seventh son), Maelys' immediate successor, and then Myles Toyne.

That would be six skulls. Considering that there were over twenty years between Robert's Rebellion and the War of the Ninepenny Kings we could also go with two captain-generals between Maelys and Myles Toyne, making it seven skulls.

Seven has a nice ring to it.