Chancho Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 if Robb survives and go North as he wanted, how that would fare with the riverlanders? Wasn't Robb supose to be the king of the trident too? A Lannister/Tyrell host ready to reduce Riverlands to even more bones and ashes and he takes the armies North... Isn't that a big fuck off? How Would Mallisters, Tullys and Freys and the others take that? Tywin wouldn't go North at all, specially with the Iroborn already doing the fighting... What is the outcome in this scenario? (If the Freys stick with Robb)... I can't see anything positive for Robb's cause if he truly go North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Care2Play Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The only chance for Rob to stabilize the North, is if he lasts till everything spirals out of control in Kings Landing.- It's essentially a fight agianst the clock.- I don't think the Ironborn would be much of a problem for Rob (assuming Rob doesnot get betrayed by his own men, cause even with the Red Wedding, a betrayal was inevitable) Anyone else fing it incredibly ironic that both Rob and Jon were betrayed by their "own" men? - Are the other Stark brothers ( Bran and Rickon) going to encounter a similar scenario? How would Arya respond to being betrayed by House of Black & White- I think Littlefinger betraying Sansa is inevitable at this point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The only chance for Rob to stabilize the North, is if he lasts till everything spirals out of control in Kings Landing.- It's essentially a fight agianst the clock.- I don't think the Ironborn would be much of a problem for Rob (assuming Rob doesnot get betrayed by his own men, cause even with the Red Wedding, a betrayal was inevitable) Why was a betrayal inevitable? It is interesting tho Robb was too by the book and followed his honor leads to betrayal Jon starts to change and break away from honor by going against some of his vows and is betrayed as well.. well its the reason the betrayers will use to justify it... but I think Jon is really doing whatever it takes to satsify what he sees is the main oath to protect the realms of men... and now Im rambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winter-ish Stuff Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Well the only good thing about the Riverlands, is their castles. Riverrun is strategically located and very difficult to seize. The Crossing is difficult to take as well. If we take the Fantasy Flight Games interpretation of Seagard to be canon (which would be badass if it is), Seagard is built with only one avenue of approach. I'd say that the River Lords would rather hole up in their castles and wait for Robb to clear out the North. If Robb took 18k troops south, and the North's troop potential is about 45-50k, then that means there is another 27-32k available to assist in clearing out the North. Ergo, Robb wouldn't need any of the River Lords to assist in clearing the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I will agree its a race against the clock until either Robb is dead or if he's incrediably lucky, the chaos in KL starts. But then again the chaos in KL might not come since if we change on thing, it will affect everything else differently as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The Riverlands would have had to retreat to their castles and do their best to hold out until Winter arrived.Castles are pretty much designed for this exact purpose, and although various raiders had despoiled the fields, the Riverlanders holdfasts were largely untouched and given that everybody puts crops by for Winter anyway I'd assume that all the decent sized castles would have enough food laid by to withstand at least a year of siege. In ADWD Jaime got Edmure to surrender by threatening to waste his reluctant hostage-bound Riverland forces in storming the castle, which was holding out in name of a dead cause.If the Red Wedding hadn't happened the Lannisters would not have been so keen to lose their own depleted forces storming castles - maybe they would use their greater force to take a few minor castles but they wouldn't really be gaining much if they didn't destroy some of the Riverlands major fortresses help by important lords. And it would have been worth it for the Riverlords to hold out, as they would have had genuine hope of relief, first from Winter would cause the Westermen to lift their seiges and go home for shelter, then presumably by King Robb, having had Autumn and Winter to sort his own lands, riding back south in Spring to aid his liegemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Well the only good thing about the Riverlands, is their castles. Riverrun is strategically located and very difficult to seize. The Crossing is difficult to take as well. If we take the Fantasy Flight Games interpretation of Seagard to be canon (which would be badass if it is), Seagard is built with only one avenue of approach. I'd say that the River Lords would rather hole up in their castles and wait for Robb to clear out the North. If Robb took 18k troops south, and the North's troop potential is about 45-50k, then that means there is another 27-32k available to assist in clearing out the North. Ergo, Robb wouldn't need any of the River Lords to assist in clearing the North. These numbers are not that high at this point at all.. and what about the towns and villages and such of riverlands... Saltpans got destroyed by some few man... A major Lannister Host would crush most Riverlands at no time.. Stonehedge didn't last 10 seconds agaisn't some Lannisters.. so is safe to assume that most of the other castles wouldn't last at all.. Except one or two.. but again Tywin doesn't need to hurry on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Would the Riverlanders getting grasped by Tywin gold hand switch sides? Who wants his seat to be torched and the people tha live there and in the surroudings to carved to death, the beating would be hard everywhere bellow the Twins and Seagard.. I mean Robb would leave them to their own luck... I would switch sides right away. Stonehedge and Darry are good examples of what would happen, but in a big scale and Tywin could choose the pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Would the Riverlanders getting grasped by Tywin gold hand switch sides? Who wants his seat to be torched and the people tha live there and in the surroudings to carved to death, the beating would be hard everywhere bellow the Twins and Seagard.. I mean Robb would leave them to their own luck... I would switch sides right away. Stonehedge and Darry are good examples of what would happen, but in a big scale and Tywin could choose the pace. Wasn't that the plan? Robb to win the North back and riverlands to hold out and wait for his return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The Lannisters and Tyrells first needed to deal with SE and DragonStone before they could mount a true invasion of the Riverlands. And we have already seen the BF's tactics in holding Riverrun. Had Robb not died he would have applied the same tactic to the entire riverlands. Imagine if the entire countryside is picked clean and the Riverlords sit inside strong castles like Riverrun, Harrenhall, Twins and Seagard. How long can the Lannisters maintain armies in regions where there is no food?? How long can they possibly maintain a siege?? Their own stores have been destroyed by Robb meaning they are completely dependent on the Tyrells. The Tyrells arent moving anywhere till SE falls and SE wont fall anytime soon. And dont forget that Winter is not far off. Jaime barely gets in time into Riverrun before Winter arrives. So the Riverlands dont have to hold for very long either. And Robb really doesnt have a lot to do in the North. Once MC falls only Torrhen's square and Deepwood Motte are in IronBorn hands and those too barely have any defenders. Robb will gather men on the march and quickly rout the IB. He should be free to go back to the South in less than half a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In A Coat of Gold Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Robb's cause was lost on the Blackwater. The Riverlands with Mace Tyrell leading the campaing would have scorched their way through the entire region. Not even a fresh Vale Army and a rejuvenated North could save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In A Coat of Gold Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The Lannisters and Tyrells first needed to deal with SE and DragonStone before they could mount a true invasion of the Riverlands. And we have already seen the BF's tactics in holding Riverrun. Had Robb not died he would have applied the same tactic to the entire riverlands. Imagine if the entire countryside is picked clean and the Riverlords sit inside strong castles like Riverrun, Harrenhall, Twins and Seagard. How long can the Lannisters maintain armies in regions where there is no food?? How long can they possibly maintain a siege?? Their own stores have been destroyed by Robb meaning they are completely dependent on the Tyrells. The Tyrells arent moving anywhere till SE falls and SE wont fall anytime soon. And dont forget that Winter is not far off. Jaime barely gets in time into Riverrun before Winter arrives. So the Riverlands dont have to hold for very long either. And Robb really doesnt have a lot to do in the North. Once MC falls only Torrhen's square and Deepwood Motte are in IronBorn hands and those too barely have any defenders. Robb will gather men on the march and quickly rout the IB. He should be free to go back to the South in less than half a year. Most of the Stormlands had bent the knee in addition to many of the lords of the narrow sea. Stannis' cause was lost in the South and he knew it. It would only take token forces to starve out either castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Most of the Stormlands had bent the knee in addition to many of the lords of the narrow sea. Stannis' cause was lost in the South and he knew it. It would only take token forces to starve out either castle. Bent knees dont mean much. These same lords had also bent the knee to Stannis. Tywin wont leave only token forces behind and take most of his strength North when lords of such uncertain loyalty still lie close to home with Stannis still alive. once Stannis is dead then their loyalty is certain but until that moment they can turn at any moment and Tywin knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Care2Play Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Why was a betrayal inevitable? It is interesting tho Robb was too by the book and followed his honor leads to betrayal Jon starts to change and break away from honor by going against some of his vows and is betrayed as well.. well its the reason the betrayers will use to justify it... but I think Jon is really doing whatever it takes to satsify what he sees is the main oath to protect the realms of men... and now Im rambling I think it was inevitable because of the Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In A Coat of Gold Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Bent knees dont mean much. These same lords had also bent the knee to Stannis. Tywin wont leave only token forces behind and take most of his strength North when lords of such uncertain loyalty still lie close to home with Stannis still alive. once Stannis is dead then their loyalty is certain but until that moment they can turn at any moment and Tywin knows that. He doesn't need most of his strength. The Riverlands and Robb are spent. Robb has like 7k men going North with him. The Riverlands couldn't have much more, and they are spread around at their castles. Mace Tyrell would just march against each lord. The North/Riverlands has no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The only chance Robb had at that point was to secure the North and let the Riverlands handle themselves. The Riverlords were not defenseless. Robb had helped them all retake their castles and with the Blackfish in charge and the Riverland troops being battle-hardened Tywin would have known that attacking the Riverlands would not be an easy proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Wasn't that the plan? Robb to win the North back and riverlands to hold out and wait for his return? Fighting the Iroborns when they got better placement.. would be so hard... so it would take a really long time i think, not all castles are Riverun, there are only about 3 or 4 strong castles there... Tywin didn't need to go for the strong ones, he could just prey the weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 He doesn't need most of his strength. The Riverlands and Robb are spent. Robb has like 7k men going North with him. The Riverlands couldn't have much more, and they are spread around at their castles. Mace Tyrell would just march against each lord. The North/Riverlands has no chance. The Riverlands had up to 20,000 troops battling Tywin at the Fords so they are far from spent. Robb had 7K going North but once he secures the North he would be able to bring much more then 7K back South with him. Why would Mace Tyrell waste his soldiers battling the Riverlords ? he would feel that the Riverlands was Tywin's problem not his so he would only give token support and Tywin's resources took a big beating in the Riverlands so he would not be in a hurry to go back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Fighting the Iroborns when they got better placement.. would be so hard... so it would take a really long time i think, not all castles are Riverun, there are only about 3 or 4 strong castles there... Tywin didn't need to go for the strong ones, he could just prey the weak. Once Robb took Moat Calin he would have an easy time driving the Iron Born out of the North . The Iron Born are raiders , holding castles against a siege is not their thing, they would have no chance against the whole North . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Think what Randyll Tarly could do to every village, town or small castle that still wants to honor Robb's cause. No need to go for Riverun... Seagard or The Twins... the only reason Jaime goes to Riverun first is because pretty much everyone else in the way already switched sides. Jonos Bracken didn't switch side because he is bad.. he switched side because Stonehedge was transformed in a pile of dust and a lot of his people butchered, he couldn't keep fighting or he would be Lord of flies and corpses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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