Jô Maltese Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 ETA: I should have started with saying that it was Mithras who definitely convinced me a long time ago: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/102076-danys-dragonriders/ Viserion's birth sounds like a description of aGoT Tyrion: (...) bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world (...) Viserion is named after Dany's brother, somewhat described like Tyrion: The cream-and-gold I call Viserion. Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not." Viserion is Daenarys' wise dragon, just like Tyrion is set to become her main councillor: "Wise?" Dany sat crosslegged on a cushion, and Viserion spread his white-and-gold wings and flapped to her side. "We shall see how wise they are," she said as she scratched the dragon's scaly head behind the horns. Viserion plays with BBP, jus as Tyrion will: But as Brown Ben was leaving, Viserion spread his pale white wings and flapped lazily at his head. One of the wings buffeted the sellsword in his face. The white dragon landed awkwardly with one foot on the man's head and one on his shoulder, shrieked, and flew off again. "He likes you, Ben," said Dany. Viserion is lustful, lazy and clumsy, not a classic warrior-dragon, and gold is his colour, like Tyrion: Viserion sensed her disquiet. The white dragon lay coiled around a pear tree, his head resting on his tail. When Dany passed his eyes came open, two pools of molten gold. His horns were gold as well, and the scales that ran down his back from head to tail. "You're lazy," she told him, scratching under his jaw. (...) "You should be hunting with your brothers. (...) His wings unfolded, and he half flew, half hopped onto the parapet. In addition, Viserion is associated to a crossbow: The dragon moved awkwardly on the ground, like a man scrabbling on his knees and elbows, but quicker than the Dornish prince would have believed. When the Windblown were too late to get out of his way, Viserion let loose with another roar. Quentyn heard the rattle of chains, the deep thrum of a crossbow."No," he screamed, "no, don't, don't," but it was too late. The fool was all that he had time to think as the quarrel caromed off Viserion's neck to vanish in the gloom. A line of fire gleamed in its wake—dragon's blood, glowing gold and red. Cyvasse and Tyrion's dragon skill Tyrion almost grabbed his dragon but thought better of it. Last game he had brought her out too soon and lost her to a trebuchet. (...) "The day you defeat me at cyvasse will be the day turtles crawl out my arse." The Halfmaester moved his spears. "You have your wager, little man." Tyrion stretched a hand out for his dragon. (...) "He's taken to his bed, in some discomfort. There are turtles crawling out his arse." (...) " Smiling, he seized his dragon, flew it across the board. "I hope Your Grace will pardon me. Your king is trapped. Death in four." Tyrion tapped his dragon. "I was lucky. Perhaps you should give my head a good rub before our next game Dragon dreams: "No," Tyrion admitted, "not me. I seldom even dream of dragons anymore. If I drink enough fire wine, he told himself, perhaps I'll dream of dragons.When he was still a lonely child in the depths of Casterly Rock, he oft rode dragons through the nights, pretending he was some lost Targaryen princeling, or a Valyrian dragonlord soaring high o'er fields and mountains. Once, when his uncles asked him what gift he wanted for his nameday, he begged them for a dragon. "It wouldn't need to be a big one. It could be little, like I am." His uncle Gerion thought that was the funniest thing he had ever heard, but his uncle Tygett said, "The last dragon died a century ago, lad." That had seemed so monstrously unfair that the boy had cried himself to sleep that night. That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother, Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realize that his second head was weeping. Other associations Tyrion/dragons: The next day he awoke with dragons fighting in his skull. When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king. "So power is a mummer's trick?""A shadow on the wall," Varys murmured, "yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow." "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all." And this: https://fbcdn-sphoto...417803312_o.jpg Last, but not least, in Winds :when Brown Ben decides to turn his cloak yet again and Jorah cuts down a Yunkish soldier, scattering cyvasse pieces, the white dragon lands at Tyrion's feet. Tyrion picks it up and wipes the red blood from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Possibly. Or he at least helps Brown Ben ride it, which wouldn't rule out Tyrion riding it later if Ben dies. I know you firmly believe AJT, but do you believe that must be true for Tyrion to ride Viserion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Possibly. Or he at least helps Brown Ben ride it, which wouldn't rule out Tyrion riding it later if Ben dies. I know you firmly believe AJT, but do you believe that must be true for Tyrion to ride Viserion? I do not believe firmly in AJT, I believe firmly in Tyrion/Future dragon rider/Viserion (I could/should have mentioned his specific saddle or his general dragon-lore as well). And therefore I believe Tyrion has some Targ blood ("two drops at least"), and Aerys seems to be the most likely provider (but I do not rule Rhaegar out). I also think his true father may never be revealed, not unlike Nettles in tPatQ, because at the end of the day talent is more important than birthright. In any case, his riding a dragon will give him the legitimacy and recognition he is after, be it through the general belief that he is a Targ Bastard (not the same thing as a simple bastard) or that he is a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahai Ahoy Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Tyrion or Jon riding a dragon would be cheese. Gods be good, let this not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cadwan Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The fact that Tyrion is meant to be snarling in the midst of the dragons always seemed to me like he was not riding a dragon himself but was rather carving out his own path and so I do not believe Tyrion will ever be a dragon rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I do not believe firmly in AJT, I believe firmly in Tyrion/Future dragon rider/Viserion (I could/should have mentioned his specific saddle or his general dragon-lore as well). And therefore I believe Tyrion has some Targ blood ("two drops at least"), and Aerys seems to be the most likely provider (but I do not rule Rhaegar out). I also think his true father may never be revealed, not unlike Nettles in tPatQ, because at the end of the day talent is more important than birthright. In any case, his riding a dragon will give him the legitimacy and recognition he is after, be it through the general belief that he is a Targ Bastard (not the same thing as a simple bastard) or that he is a genius.Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Regarding the OP's spoiler tag:The white dragon with blood in its creases is reminiscent of weirwood trees and Ghost. I would not be surprised in the least if a Jon or Melisandre chapter immediately proceeds this Tyrion chapter in WoW when it's publshed. Even if Jon doesn't end up being a dragonrider, I believe that Tyrion "snarling in the midst of it all" foreshadows that he will bring the "three heads" of the dragon together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Tyrion or Jon riding a dragon would be cheese. Gods be good, let this not happen. This. I detest the "trope killer" thing constantly applied to GRRM, but if he goes this route for either Jon or Tyrion, it wouldn't be trope, but cheese. Our three heroes, on their noble, appropriately-colored dragons, go to war against the bad guys. brrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 This. I detest the "trope killer" thing constantly applied to GRRM, but if he goes this route for either Jon or Tyrion, it wouldn't be trope, but cheese. Our three heroes, on their noble, appropriately-colored dragons, go to war against the bad guys. brrr.Don't worry. Jon will ride a dragon, but only after Daenerys dies. Black always was his color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Don't worry. Jon will ride a dragon, but only after Daenerys dies. Black always was his color. I kinda hope he doesn't, and that she lives, rides her dragons with two of her khalasar favorites. Jon already has a pet. Tyrion is a lion, a behind-the-scenes guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Don't worry. Jon will ride a dragon, but only after Daenerys dies. Black always was his color. I don't particularly see this happening... but Jon fan's need to be careful what they wish for. No single event could delight and anger fans at the same time as this one would. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annarkie Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I really do foresee Tyrion riding a dragon, though I don't buy the theories that he is a secret Targ.Which is fine because GRRM has said that one does not have to be a Targ to ride a dragon. Ooh, and what if Bran wargs the dragon to help Tyrion ride it? After all, Tyrion helped Bran ride a horse after he was crippled. I actually don't see Jon riding one. Though it very well could happen, there isn't nearly as much foreshadowing for it. Besides, if Jon gets a dragon, what happens to Ghost? And for the nay-sayers I think the people-constantly-coming-back-to-life/ not being dead thing is far cheesier than main characters riding dragons. However, I still respect your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't particularly see this happening... but Jon fan's need to be careful what they wish for. No single event could delight and anger fans at the same time as this one would. :P I dislike Dany, and I'm indifferent to Jon. I love Tyrion's relationship with his dad (Tywin). I don't want to see that compromised in the name of an extremely cheesy scenario where all three of our heroes get on dragons and save the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 I really do foresee Tyrion riding a dragon, though I don't buy the theories that he is a secret Targ. Which is fine because GRRM has said that one does not have to be a Targ to ride a dragon. Ooh, and what if Bran wargs the dragon to help Tyrion ride it? After all, Tyrion helped Bran ride a horse after he was crippled. I actually don't see Jon riding one. Though it very well could happen, there isn't nearly as much foreshadowing for it. Besides, if Jon gets a dragon, what happens to Ghost? And for the nay-sayers I think the people-constantly-coming-back-to-life/ not being dead thing is far cheesier than main characters riding dragons. However, I still respect your opinions. WELL SAID! As for the absence of dragon foreshadowing in Jon's arc, well, I have to say it has always made me wonder... Sure, there are those huge shadows of him on the wall (a clear wink to dragon ID in GRRM's code IMHO) but otherwise... Nada. Therefore I am not sure he is ever going to be a rider. He is The Dragon after all, the PtwP and AA (my belief) so he does not need a dragon but he needs Lightbringer (Dawn? Longclaw? Dany?). Also consider this: 1. Say, Jon is a Dragon but will not become a dragon rider: how do we (the readers) know? The answer is R+L=T v144... 2. Say, Tyrion is a dragon and will become a dragon rider: We will know he is a Dragon(seed) when he rides Viserion, so we do not need as many hints at AJT, but we do need a few for T+V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't particularly see this happening... but Jon fan's need to be careful what they wish for. No single event could delight and anger fans at the same time as this one would. :PI'm not a Jon fan. I liked Eddard... then Robb... then Beric... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsf45ds Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Nice catch! Who do you think is it for Rhaegal then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 It's Tyrion or Aegon for Viserion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't particularly see this happening... but Jon fan's need to be careful what they wish for. No single event could delight and anger fans at the same time as this one would. :P :agree: But he'll loose Ghost (his Stark identity) and gain a dragon. It will suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Nice catch! Who do you think is it for Rhaegal then?Aegon at some point. The dragons will dance and all things come round again, so we should see Drogon vs Rhaegal, the blacks and the greens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoman32 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 There are 2 things that could happen that would make me put the book in a shredder. 1. Bran wargs a Dragon2. Tyrion rides a Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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