Heartofwinter Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 GRRM was recently in the news for comments made regarding comic book based movies and heroes/villains. Here is his quote: "I am tired of this Marvel movie trope where the bad guy has the same powers as the hero. The Hulk fought the Abomination, who is just a bad Hulk. Spider-Man fights Venom, who is just a bad Spider-Man. Iron Man fights Ironmonger, a bad Iron Man. Yawn. I want more films where the hero and the villain have wildly different powers. That makes the action much more interesting." The ice dragon concept has a dedicated group of fans but I think this comment ends forever the speculation that one does or will exist in the asoiaf universe. Whatever power the Others have (beyond simply raising wights) it isn't control of an ice dragon. Perhaps they can freeze a dragon out of the air, perhaps they have scorpion bolts tipped with the ice equivalent of dragonglass, or more likely GRRM will simply surprise us, but what we won't see is ice dragons fighting fire dragons. From GRRMs comments, I think whats safe to infer is the fact that we won't see fire dragons fighting fire dragons. Ice dragons fighting fire dragons could still be in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 This assumes that Dany's dragons will be used in the wars against the Others. :rolleyes: True. And good point. But Dany has already gone east to Mereen presumably to go west to Westeros, her next stop. The other half was to go south you must go north. So I presume that Dany will land in the North first in order to get the IT which is south in KL. In truth if Dany doesn't do anything with the Others then essentially the entire series becomes two completely different stories so I doubt that GRRM would do it that way. If the Others are defeated by the Northmen and Stannis alone then a Targaryen simply shows up to conquer Westeros with three dragons again. That's not the bittersweet ending that GRRM has promised. That's just stupid and maddening for having to read 1500 pages of Dany plot that could be replaced by a single epilogue chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 This assumes that Dany's dragons will be used in the wars against the Others. :rolleyes: Oh the irony if they weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 True. And good point. But Dany has already gone east to Mereen presumably to go west to Westeros, her next stop. The other half was to go south you must go north. So I presume that Dany will land in the North first in order to get the IT which is south in KL. In truth if Dany doesn't do anything with the Others then essentially the entire series becomes two completely different stories so I doubt that GRRM would do it that way. If the Others are defeated by the Northmen and Stannis alone then a Targaryen simply shows up to conquer Westeros with three dragons again. That's not the bittersweet ending that GRRM has promised. That's just stupid and maddening for having to read 1500 pages of Dany plot that could be replaced by a single epilogue chapter. The entire series is actually three diferent stories. Wot5K, Dany's invasion and the War for Dawn. Dany is the superstar of the second story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 GRRM was recently in the news for comments made regarding comic book based movies and heroes/villains. Here is his quote: "I am tired of this Marvel movie trope where the bad guy has the same powers as the hero. The Hulk fought the Abomination, who is just a bad Hulk. Spider-Man fights Venom, who is just a bad Spider-Man. Iron Man fights Ironmonger, a bad Iron Man. Yawn. I want more films where the hero and the villain have wildly different powers. That makes the action much more interesting." The ice dragon concept has a dedicated group of fans but I think this comment ends forever the speculation that one does or will exist in the asoiaf universe. Whatever power the Others have (beyond simply raising wights) it isn't control of an ice dragon. Perhaps they can freeze a dragon out of the air, perhaps they have scorpion bolts tipped with the ice equivalent of dragonglass, or more likely GRRM will simply surprise us, but what we won't see is ice dragons fighting fire dragons. I don't think there will be Ice Dragons, but this has nothing to do with it. GRRM has obviously created two different powers which have different advantages on eachother: 1. Dragonfire/Dragonglass/Valyrian steel(fire magic/maybe more?) which, unlike anything else can kill others. (no confirmation on dragonfire btw, but I guess it makes sense) 2. Ice weapons which shatter normal steel, the option to have a army of the undead, making new others from baby's, super(un)human strength (and more ?) He does have two different powers; ice vs fire. Instead of 'good spider with spider powers vs evil spider with spider powers.' This however, doesn't include, nor exclude the possibility of an Ice dragon. I think everyone will be a little sad if we never get the giant ice spiders. I don't think we will. I feel that D&D would've used them if GRRM would've confirmed that they exist. True. And good point. But Dany has already gone east to Mereen presumably to go west to Westeros, her next stop. The other half was to go south you must go north. So I presume that Dany will land in the North first in order to get the IT which is south in KL. In truth if Dany doesn't do anything with the Others then essentially the entire series becomes two completely different stories so I doubt that GRRM would do it that way. If the Others are defeated by the Northmen and Stannis alone then a Targaryen simply shows up to conquer Westeros with three dragons again. That's not the bittersweet ending that GRRM has promised. That's just stupid and maddening for having to read 1500 pages of Dany plot that could be replaced by a single epilogue chapter. I would love to see GRRM taking dany esst and 'go around the globe.' The only way that anyone ever went from westeros to essos through the sunset sea. Dany doing this would be awesome (and also go south to end up north in the lands of always winter). Probably not going to happen, but I would've loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khal Who Rode West Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 These are opposites... not the same. All the characters he listed are people with the same powers. Ice dragons breath cold, not fire like Valyrian dragons do. This quote actually supports that there will be ice dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khal Who Rode West Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Oh the irony if they weren't. IIRC GRRM has said that he didn't even want dragons in his story, his editor made him put them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuteman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 These are opposites... not the same. All the characters he listed are people with the same powers. Ice dragons breath cold, not fire like Valyrian dragons do. This quote actually supports that there will be ice dragons. GRRMs quote was "wildly different powers". The opposite is not wildly different. Ice spiders vs. fire dragons would be wildly different. Two large flying beasts with dangerous breath, one hot and the other cold, is not even a little bit wildly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I don't think we will. I feel that D&D would've used them if GRRM would've confirmed that they exist. They need to save something for the big final battle. IIRC GRRM has said that he didn't even want dragons in his story, his editor made him put them in. True the Valyrians were going to use great fire spewing machines of war or something. Dragons are better in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Watcher_On_The_Walls Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 We don't even know who the bad guys are yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 We don't even know who the bad guys are yet I'm not sure I understand why that's relivent to the conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 IIRC GRRM has said that he didn't even want dragons in his story, his editor made him put them in. Give me a quote? :) They need to save something for the big final battle. I hope for something better than ice spiders in the final battle. We don't even know who the bad guys are yet We do, it isn't guys but a guy; GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Give me a quote? :) I hope for something better than ice spiders in the final battle. We do, it isn't guys but a guy; GRRM. Sorry, don't have a quote but if I recall correctly it was a friend, not his editor that wanted the dragons. Not sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Watcher_On_The_Walls Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'm not sure I understand why that's relivent to the conversation? GRRM wants good guys and bad guys to have different, not identical powers. I pointed out that in this narrative we don't know who the bad guys are. Maybe Fire & Ice are on the same team in the end fighting patchface and his army of lobsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Watcher_On_The_Walls Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 We do, it isn't guys but a guy; GRRM. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 GRRM wants good guys and bad guys to have different, not identical powers. I pointed out that in this narrative we don't know who the bad guys are. Maybe Fire & Ice are on the same team in the end fighting patchface and his army of lobsters. I see, makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 patchface and his army of lobsters. Ha ha, Would love to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khal Who Rode West Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Give me a quote? :)It was his friend not his editor With the exception of the fantasy elements, Game of Thrones might well have been a reimagination of the Wars of the Roses. I did consider at a very early stage going all the way back to 1991 whether to include overt fantasy elements, and at one point thought of writing a Wars of the Roses novel. But the problem with straight historical fiction is you know what's going to happen. If you know anything about the Wars of the Roses, you know that the princes in the tower aren't going to escape. I wanted to make it more unexpected, bring in some more twists and turns. The main question was the dragons: Do I include dragons? I knew I wanted to have the Targaryens have their symbol be the dragons; the Lannisters have the lions, the Starks have the wolves. Should these things be literal here? Should the Targaryens actually have dragons? I was discussing this with a friend, writer Phyllis Eisenstein - I dedicated the third book to her - and she said, "George, it's a fantasy you've got to put in the dragons." She convinced me, and it was the right decision. Now that I'm deep into it, I can't imagine the book without the dragons.http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423?page=2 But yeah, George wasn't going to have dragons in ASOIAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It was his friend not his editorhttp://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423?page=2 But yeah, George wasn't going to have dragons in ASOIAF I think GRRM should talk more with Phyllis, because when I read this quote I read: I couldn't make up my mind on whether I should or shouldn't involve dragons in the story. Phyllis helped me to make a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Watcher_On_The_Walls Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I see, makes sense. More to the flavor of the thread then; you mentioned DoD2 earlier and I agree with you that it's conceivable, especially if Aegon somehow scores a dragon. Having three Targs doesn't guarantee any alliance between the so called "three heads of the Dragon". We could easily get a targ vs blackfyre civil war of sorts. GRRM might have shot that down as the final battle royal of sorts but if even Victarion or whoever gets a dragon it would serve for a fun side story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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