Jack Vance

[thiazyl]

There was a Jack Vance thread in the old forum so I thought that I would start a new one. I read the first novel in the Dying Earth chronicles a while back and didn't really enjoy it that much. I think part of it was that I had no idea what to expect. Also, at the time, I was having a hard time reading anything other than Martin. Flash foward a few years and I was still reading about how good Vance was and how some of his series (notably The Dying Earth , Lyonesse, and the Demon Princes series) were must reads. I finally decided to tackle Vance again a read the entire Dying Earth series. I'm happy to say that I really enjoyed the first novel the second time through. Part of it was knowing what to expect and this time I paid special attention to Vance's unique style. Also, I broke out my dictionary this time. Sheesh, were did this guy develop his vocabulary? Is it just me but as I'm almost done Eyes of the Overworld I'm starting to really dislike Cugel. This guy is a royal bastard. He has no qualms about stabbing someone in the back and always seems to get away with it. I'm kind of hoping that he gets it at the end...or better yet, that he runs into 'Chun the Unavoidable'.

Question, do we ever get to see some of the old characters again, like Turgan, T'sais, or Lith?

I really enjoy Vance's unique style and am looking forward to reading the Lyonesse and the Demon Princes series. Aside from these, are there other Vance novels that you would recommend? How is Ports of Call and Lurulu(sp)? Part of the problem is finding his books. Many of them seem to be out of print.

That's all for now

[Brys]

I had similar thoughts after the first novel of the Dying Earth - there were nice moments and some excellent writing, but I didn't think it was that great consistently - it had a Clark Ashton Smith feel to it, but with only some of the skill.

Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga were some of the best, most humorous and most entertaining fantasy I've ever read - and Cugel is a very interesting character. Rhialto the Marvellous I found wasn't quite as good - Rhialto just wasn't as interesting a character.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

Cugel's Saga is perhaps the funniest novel I've ever read, and it is also one of only two novels that I would describe as absolutely pitch perfect.

[Werthead]

Lyonesse is genius as well. It has a great ongoing story arc, which is the main thing Dying Earth lacks. Vance's language is absolutely genius and his dialogue never less than sparkling. He's not a bloodthirsty author, most big battles are rather sketchily described, and his characters tend to be similar to one another (i.e. everyone, from a pauper peasent to the greatest wizard in the world, is a witty humorist with a gift for repartee), but there's very few other problems I would have with his writing.

I need to track down Demon Princes. A few other critics, including Martin I think, rate it as his best series.

[Ran]

Planet of Adventure and Alastor would be two further series that I'd recommend. As for a stand-alone, the short and extremely good Dragon Masters is great.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Ditto here with the struggling. But oh gods, his style is amazing. The structure, the words -- it thrills me in the same way that Roger Zelazny's work does. I pull the books out every now and again, just to enjoy the words.

[thiazyl]

O.K. So I've finished Tales of the Dying Earth. So what can I say. Like I said before, I found it a little hard to get into at first(not to mention slow going looking up every 20th word!) but two thirds of the way through Eyes Of the Overworld I was really, enjoying the book(s). The first book I found a little disjointed, however, a good introduction to his style. My favorite stories were Marizian the Magician and Lianne the Wayfarer. As for Eyes of the Overworld, I had a hard time liking Cugel at first but by the end of Eyes I started warming up to him. Cugel's Saga was...well...great. What else can I say. I did find a difference in the writing form Eyes to Cugel's Saga, not in terms of better or worse, just different. I also really enjoyed Rhialto the Marvelous. I thought Fader's Waft was the best of the three stories. Anyway, I'm so happy I gave Vance a reread and persevered through to the end. I have since picked up the Lyonesse and Demon Princes series. I look forward to reading these in the near future (if I can make a dent in my To Read list). A quick question:

SPOILER: Cugel's Saga

At the beginning of Cugel's Saga, the story claims that, for the second time, Cugel had been part of a cruel joke by Iocounu and sent off to the shores of a far away land (can't remember the name). However, I thought that Cugel was sent to the shores of a far away land because he screwed up a spell by mixing up some syllables or something like that. Am I missing something? I know Iocounu sent him the first time but the second time was Cugel's fault, no?

I'll chime in again after reading some more Vance

thiazyl

[Brys]

It's just Cugel arrogantly trying to reconcile himself to his incompetence. As I'm sure you know by now, Cugel isn't the luckiest of people, and part of the reason for his situation in Cugel's Saga is due to Iuconou, but not as directly as in the book before.

[Werthead]

Cugel's character is remarkably similar to the type of chracter one of the players in my D&D games always plays. A total SOB who goes to ridiculous lengths to get the upper hand in the pettiest of circumstances (locking the innkeeper in the outhouse so he can sleep in his room, for example). The bit where Cugel tries to flashily impress some yokels by levitating the wheel from their bust cart, rather than just wheeling it to one side, and then a perigrane steals the wheel and flies off with it, nearly made me hurl with laughter.

I always wondered why Vance never sued Gygax about all the elements 'borrowed' from Dying Earth in the creation of D&D. The magic system is identical and the 'IOUN stones' are a dead giveaway, as well as some of the individual magical spells. Guess Vance couldn't be bothered.

Btw, my friend's step-brother has a stake in Perigrane Press, which publishes The Dying Earth RPG, and even met the man himself a couple of years back. An interesting guy by all accounts.

[Arvernian]

I just finished my first read of the four Dying Earth books and I have to say I enjoyed the two Cugel novels if nothing else. Vance seems like a good writer, but for me I think he is hit or miss. Cugel was a great character but Rhialto, Turjan et al seemed somewhat less interesting.

[Fiddler's Green]

I have yet to track down Dying Earth, but I can attest for the brilliance, imo, of Demon Princes. Each story is different and wonderful to read and the world he created is fascinating to me. I epecially liked The Killing Machine and The Palace of Love. I recommend anyone at least check out the first volume from the library to see if they like it.

[Arvernian]

I have yet to track down Dying Earth, but I can attest for the brilliance, imo, of Demon Princes. Each story is different and wonderful to read and the world he created is fascinating to me. I epecially liked The Killing Machine and The Palace of Love. I recommend anyone at least check out the first volume from the library to see if they like it.

Is Demon Princes Sci-fi, or fantasy? What about Lyonesse?

[Fiddler's Green]

Is Demon Princes Sci-fi, or fantasy? What about Lyonesse?

Demon Princes is pretty much sci-fi, but Vance tells the stories sort of as mysteries, making for an interesting tale.

[Werthead]

Lyonesse is epic fantasy of the traditional kind (although Vance isn't keen on massive battles). It is set in a fictious group of islands in the Bay of Biscay in the years before King Arthur and has several plot threads in tandem, including the machinations of King Casimir of Lyonesse to conquer the other islands, the threat of the invading Ska and various complicated birth-issues revolving around Princess Madouc. It's very well-written and pretty funny in places, with Vance's trademark great dialogue. Well worth a read.

[thiazyl]

For those of you who have read some Jack Vance probably know that his work is not always easy to find. Even his more recent books (Ports of Call and Lurulu) are not readily available at amazon. Recently I stumbled on ‘The Vance Integral Edition’. The VIE is a group of Vance fanatics who have decided to release definitive editions of all of Jack Vance’s books and stories. These are not reprints of previously published books. With the aid of Jack Vance and his family, the VIE have gone back to original manuscripts and fixed any editorial ‘changes’. The VIE is therefore the books as they were intended. For those who don’t know, many (all?) of Vance’s work has had unwanted editorial changes before publishing. This includes book titles as well as text. Anyway, the VIE was offering these definitive editions only as a complete set so it was expensive. But…as of today, these books are no longer available for order. So even if you wanted to you couldn’t order them. So, what’s my point? I’m getting there. Through another publisher, the VIE has made available their errata sheets to publish Vance on a ‘print on demand’ basis. This is called the Andreas Irle Edition. Not only will this put Jack Vance in print again but it also allows new fans to pick up only the books they want (like me). The first book(s) to be available through this ‘print on demand’ is the Lyonesse Trilogy. To print a run, they need a least 20 orders (I’ve already put my order for the Lyonesse Trilogy). I just wanted to give any Vance fans the heads-up. Keep in mind that these ‘print on demand’ books will be paperback (like trade paperbacks and not mass market paperbacks). More information can be found at:

vanceintegral.com and editionandreasirle.com.

thiazyl

[Ran]

I'm watching this quite closely. Unfortunately, the prices are rather steep, but it's to be understood given the nature of POD. It's a great way of getting incredibly-hard-to-find Vance books. For my part, I've sent an e-mail expressing interest in a reprint of the Durdane books. It'd be a nice birthday present to myself in a few months time.

[thiazyl]

Ran,

I'm not familiar with the Durdane books. Are they Sci-Fi? Fantasy? Neither? Are these early Vance works or later books? Can you give me a quick summary? Thanks

thiazyl

[Ran]

I've never read them myself, which is why I'm interested. From Wikipedia, however, one learns this:

The Durdane series are a trilogy of science fiction books written by Jack Vance between 1971 and 1973, and detail the political and social adventures of Gastel Etzwane on the world Durdane. The trilogy, as a whole, portrays the rise of Gastel Etzwane from common boy, to the autocrat The Anome, and finally, as a saviour of his world against the alien Asutra of the third book.

The land of Shant on the planet Durdane is ruled by a dictator called "The Faceless Man", or "The Anome". He is called this because his identity is literally unknown. He maintains control by virtue of the "torc", a ring of explosive clamped around the neck of every adult man or woman of Shant. Since no one knows who the Anome is, or who his agents are, fear of discovery induces most people to remain law-abiding, since the penalty for crime is detonation of the torc by remote control - without warning or trial. The deterrent effect of this method of government is unimpaired by doubt as to the actual guilt of the dead offender. An exploded head, innocent or guilty, is a vivid object lesson of the penalty for crime...

The trilogy is set in the same broad Gaean Reach milieu that many of Vance's books are, and like most of his work, full of colour, culture and heroic adventure. There are wind-propelled cable-car like vehicles and explosive collars around the necks of the populace and a host of other creations that make Vance the distinctive author he is.

Gaean Reach stories are always fun.

[Hereward]

That's a good, though very spoilerish, synopsis of one of my very favourite Vance series. Highly recommended.

[SonOfJaqen]

Thanks to Ran and others, I've been reading a lot of Vance.

My favorites so far are: The Demon Princes, Alastor, and now Durdane.

I'm on the last Durdane book now, but I really liked Books 1 & 2.

I order my Vance used (for cheap) on ebay, half.com, and others - so while I was waiting for Brave Free Men (Durdane #2) I read Dragon Masters. It was ok. I like Vance when he is funny, so Dragon Masters - it wasn't as humorous as Alastor, Demon Princes, and The Cugel Books. Tales of the Dying Earth is ok, but I would just skip over book #1. I didn't like that much at all. It picks up once Cugel comes along.

So far, I just love Alastor Book#1 - hussade is where it is at.

-SoJ