409 replies to this topic

[AverageGuy]

I don't think Meluan is Kvothe's aunt, though the thought did cross my mind when he first mentioned the Lackless sister who ran off with the Ruh.  I also have a vague recollection of Kvothe seeing his mother's family.  I think the lost Lackless might be Denna.  I remember the theory that Denna might be one of the Amyr floating around after NotW came out, but at this point, I'm pretty sure she's not.  Meluan's got similar coloring, and I can't think of who else she might be related to that Kvothe would notice the resemblance.  On the other hand, the Three Crossings relatives reference is vague enough and Kvothe is young enough that being his aunt is possible.

Angeleyes, on 03 March 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

The issue as far as I can tell is that all of this learning is concentrated at one university, where a lot of the students do not seem to be focused on invention.  That is to say, there seems to be very little general knowledge of university style academia outside of the university.

Pretty much my thought.  There are a couple other problems, too.  One is that it's a place of continuing education, and in Rothfuss's world that seems to mean that it's mostly wealthy merchants' and nobles' sons who can have that initial education.  But once they get there, the children of privilege also tend to either be the lazy types or seem to focus more on the Rhetoric and Languages side-- which we can get from the mention of Simmon's parents wanting him to study to be a diplomat, how the size of the University's compares to the relatively small size of Kvothe's sympathy classes, the way many in the Fishery often seem to mention the money from their work even if they aren't meant to be as poor as Kvothe.  Added to that, given the hesitation of Wil, Simmon, and Kvothe to talk about their education to Denna, those focused on the Arcanum side -- the ones with more practical, advanced knowledge -- do seem to have a prohibition drilled into them against sharing knowledge.

grinachu, on 03 March 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

If anybody else knows how many books there will be altogether, I would appreciate knowing.

I'm pretty sure Rothfuss has said six.  There will be two trilogies.  The first will get up to Kvothe in the inn.  The second will deal with his life after he leaves the inn.  But I read that years ago, so who knows.

Edited by AverageGuy, 03 March 2011 - 03:14 PM.

[Gaston de Foix]

kuenjato, on 03 March 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:

PR has stated in interviews that there will be at least two trilogies: the first covers Kvothe's backstory, the second the present-day conflict. I believe this information was from one of the very first interviews he did, probably Pat's Hotlist.

I find it interesting that despite the author's fear of spoilers (hence the low volume of ARCs), I've yet to see anything in this thread that is really all that spoilery, other than the theories as to Kvothe's parentage, which I don't care about in any case. All of the principle events of WMF are alluded to near the end of TNotW.

Thanks for that info, Kuenjato. I tried finding the interview, but as long as he's said it for sure, I don't care much about the provenance. Since you know this much, I also read somewhere that the eventual King killed by Kvothe was Ambrose Jakis. Is that true. Rothfuss does make a point of highlighting how close Ambrose is to the throne of the Kingdom of Vint, but it still somewhat beggars the imagination that the King Kvothe ends up killing will be his university enemy.

Word- Kvothe's mother was from Three Crossings in the Name of the Wind, not from the Lackless estate. I have no idea where Three Crossings is, but rather than being one of the most important noblewomen in Vint, I suspect his mother was minor nobility. You are right that there is no explanation for the familiarity that Kvothe feels on seeing her.

[Poobah]

grinachu, on 03 March 2011 - 03:21 PM, said:

I also read somewhere that the eventual King killed by Kvothe was Ambrose Jakis.

I'm pretty sure this is just a theory. But I think that this is kinda... really really obvious. And so probably a red herring. I wonder if Kvothe ends up making Ambrose king, personally.

Is there anything mentioned at all to suggest which kingdom Kvothe's inn is in?

Another random thought I had. Kvothe's (alar? - will or whatever) is always said to be as strong as some specific type of steel beginning with an R, I noticed that it was pointed out when he barters with that tinker that that steel is also brittle.

Also increasingly wondering how he manages to get expelled, since things increasingly seem to be going well for him. Perhaps the word gets out about what he did at the bandit camp? It was definitely maleficence.

Edited by Poobah, 03 March 2011 - 03:34 PM.

[bcwoods]

I think Meluan is either Kvothe's aunt or the lady that saved him in Tarbean during that weird Encanis festival thing. Possibly both. Remember when a man and a woman appeared and gave him money when he was freezing to death? Didn't he catch the Lady's face for just half a second?

Also, does anyone else think that the blacksmith's apprentice is going to go turn in Kvothe? There's a lot of set up about how the blacksmith's apprentice is smarter than he seems, and there's also a passage that says he will be gone signing up for the King's Army for exactly the length of time it takes for Kvothe to finish his story. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes and turns in Kvothe for the reward money, prompting Kvothe to make a speedy getaway.

[kuenjato]

Poobah, on 03 March 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure this is just a theory. But I think that this is kinda... really really obvious. And so probably a red herring. I wonder if Kvothe ends up making Ambrose king, personally.

Is there anything mentioned at all to suggest which kingdom Kvothe's inn is in?

Another random thought I had. Kvothe's (alar? - will or whatever) is always said to be as strong as some specific type of steel beginning with an R, I noticed that it was pointed out when he barters with that tinker that that steel is also brittle.

Also increasingly wondering how he manages to get expelled, since things increasingly seem to be going well for him. Perhaps the word gets out about what he did at the bandit camp? It was definitely maleficence.

I agree, Ambrose is too obvious, but making Ambrose king is just the sort of Wedonesque "twist" I can see PR doing.

From my re-read, I realized that Kvothe's inn is in the extreme east on the map, near the Stormwal Mountains. The scrael "coming over the mountains" are mentioned as an extraordinary event (thus, will Kvothe actually wander past the Four Corners in book three?) and the nearness of the 'free city of Tenue' is mentioned (I believe that's what it is called, I've already returned the book to the library).

One of my issues is how absolutely unhelpful the map is in terms of locations, especially given how 'elaborate' the artistic rendition is.

[TeaSpoon]

I don't think the moon's name is locked in the Lockless box.

If you remember Falurian's story, Iax was the one who drew the moon into the fearie realm. I assume whatever holds the moon is somewhere there. You'll remember the name Iax from Skarpi's story. He was one of four great namers during the creation war. Selitos, Aleph, Iax, and Lyra. Selitos became the first Amyr; Aleph transformed Tehlu and his people into the angels; and Lyra brought Lanre back to life and later died, making him lose all hope.

So, the creation war was fought between the namers and the shapers. The namers learn names and the shapers change names. The shapers won, I think. And then they left for the fearie realms. In the mortal world, the namers went through a dark age where they lost all their knowledge and power.

I think Lanre changed his name. Selitos said he was different when he met him before the fall of Myr Tariniel. Changing one's name is a bad thing, if Elodin's reaction at the end of Wise Man's Fear is anything to go by.

Anyway, back to the Lockless box. I think it holds one of the spider creatures. Remember how adamant Bast was that none of them be left alive? Even a single one can spell doom. I think they're left-over weapons from the creation war and that they can reproduce asexually, like mushrooms. I think Kvote will eventually open it and doom entire countries.

Another thing, I'm with the people who think Meluan is Kvote's aunt. The passage in question: "She told me my father had lured her away from “a miserable dreary hell” with sweet music and sweeter words. I could only assume she meant Three Crossings, where we went to visit relatives when I was very young. Once."

First of all, Kvote only assumes Three Crossings was Laurian's home. Second, the relatives in question does not necessarily refer to close family. Remember that the Lackless family is only a small fragment of the original Lockless family. There are still branches of the family all over the world. The Lack-keys in Atur, the Laclith in the South, the Kaepcaen in Modeg.

Edited by TeaSpoon, 03 March 2011 - 06:04 PM.

[Slyfinger]

Got it. Booze and chasing tailrejections from women will prevent me from deliviring my full review until Monday.



So... any of you ladies single?

[Gaston de Foix]

bcwoods, on 03 March 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

I think Meluan is either Kvothe's aunt or the lady that saved him in Tarbean during that weird Encanis festival thing. Possibly both. Remember when a man and a woman appeared and gave him money when he was freezing to death? Didn't he catch the Lady's face for just half a second?

Also, does anyone else think that the blacksmith's apprentice is going to go turn in Kvothe? There's a lot of set up about how the blacksmith's apprentice is smarter than he seems, and there's also a passage that says he will be gone signing up for the King's Army for exactly the length of time it takes for Kvothe to finish his story. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes and turns in Kvothe for the reward money, prompting Kvothe to make a speedy getaway.

the woman who saved him in Tarbean was named Holly (the other man, was Gerrek).

I think the point of the blacksmith was that Kvothe had become a legend in his own time, so much so that he would couldn't match those expectations.

[TeaSpoon]

Also, funny thing I noticed. The Mear's name is Rand Alveron. Rand al'Veron

[AverageGuy]

grinachu, on 03 March 2011 - 03:21 PM, said:

I also read somewhere that the eventual King killed by Kvothe was Ambrose Jakis

I think it's his father.  Or if his father's dead, whoever the previous king was.  Ambrose inherits.  Besides that he keeps getting closer to the throne, there's a mention of how the new king knows some magic.

bcwoods, on 03 March 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

Also, does anyone else think that the blacksmith's apprentice is going to go turn in Kvothe?

It's not unlikely that someone's going to come for Kvothe by the end of the third book.  Whether that's because the blacksmith says something (whether intentionally or unintentionally, making a joke about what Kote said that someone overhears) or because of one of Bast's rumors, or because of something we don't know about related to the scrael and the Dancers, who knows.

TeaSpoon, on 03 March 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:

Anyway, back to the Lockless box. I think it holds one of the spider creatures. Remember how adamant Bast was that none of them be left alive?

The spiders are the scrael.  Pretty sure that Bast said that there were none of the Dancers left alive.  The Dancers are the ones who possess people but can't get past holly.

[fionwe1987]

Meluan is almost certainly the aunt. The reference from book 1 is this:

Save perhaps that my mother was a noble before she was a trouper. She told me my father had lured her away from “a miserable dreary hell” with sweet music and sweeter words. I could only assume she meant Three Crossings, where we went to visit relatives when I was very young. Once.

Three Crossings may be somewhere in the Lackless lands. Or it may be relatives totally unconnected to his mother. Or it could be distant relatives of hers who were more welcoming. It may even be one of the offshoots of the Lockless clan in other parts of the world who were poorer now. Kvothe is just assuming here that this place was her home before she ran away.

The reason I'm convinced Kvothe is Meluan's relative is that the Cthae (sp?) tells him he'll find his answers by sticking to the Maer. That is unlikely unless there's a thawing with Meluan. And what better reason for that than to be a nephew. And I think Meluan might help with the Chandrian research once she finds out they murdered her sister. If "stealing" her can cause her to be enraged against the Ruh, what will murder drive her to?

And the Lady Lackless song wasn't just about the sexual innuendo. There are two very key statements in that scene:

“Also, Lady Perial is just a character. Lady Lackless is a real person, with feelings that can be hurt.” She looked up at me.

She ran her hand over my head and smiled like the sun. “I imagine you could make it up to both Lady Lackless and myself if you found some sweet nettle for the pot tonight.”

I think that last statement is particularly telling. How is the gossiping about Lady Lackless made up for by a troupers wife being given some ingredient for her soup? Unless she also happened to be the Lady Lackless of song.

There's also this:

Ben poured from a clay jug into a leather mug and handed it to my mother. His breath fogged as he spoke. “How do they feel about demons off in Atur?” he asked.
“Scared.” My father tapped his temple. “All that religion makes their brains soft.”
“How about off in Vintas?” Ben asked. “Fair number of them are Tehlins. Do they feel the same way?”
My mother shook her head. “They think it’s a little silly. They like their demons metaphorical.”
“What are they afraid of at night in Vintas then?”
“The Fae,” my mother said.

Kvothe's mother seems to be pretty good with Vintish superstition. That on its own means nothing, but added to the rest, it certainly seems to point to her being Vintish.

[TeaSpoon]

AverageGuy, on 03 March 2011 - 05:58 PM, said:

The spiders are the scrael.  Pretty sure that Bast said that there were none of the Dancers left alive.  The Dancers are the ones who possess people but can't get past holly.

"None be left alive" as in "all should be killed." Bast was terrified that there was a single scrael running around, certain that it would lead to more. Asexual reproduction could explain that fear.

[fionwe1987]

TeaSpoon, on 03 March 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

Also, funny thing I noticed. The Mear's name is Rand Alveron. Rand al'Veron

There was also a Tam, and the Adem were a little too Aiel-ish. Does anyone know if PR has read WoT?

[Gaston de Foix]

fionwe1987, on 03 March 2011 - 05:59 PM, said:

Meluan is almost certainly the aunt. The reference from book 1 is this:

Save perhaps that my mother was a noble before she was a trouper. She told me my father had lured her away from “a miserable dreary hell” with sweet music and sweeter words. I could only assume she meant Three Crossings, where we went to visit relatives when I was very young. Once.

Three Crossings may be somewhere in the Lackless lands. Or it may be relatives totally unconnected to his mother. Or it could be distant relatives of hers who were more welcoming. It may even be one of the offshoots of the Lockless clan in other parts of the world who were poorer now. Kvothe is just assuming here that this place was her home before she ran away.

The reason I'm convinced Kvothe is Meluan's relative is that the Cthae (sp?) tells him he'll find his answers by sticking to the Maer. That is unlikely unless there's a thawing with Meluan. And what better reason for that than to be a nephew. And I think Meluan might help with the Chandrian research once she finds out they murdered her sister. If "stealing" her can cause her to be enraged against the Ruh, what will murder drive her to?

And the Lady Lackless song wasn't just about the sexual innuendo. There are two very key statements in that scene:

“Also, Lady Perial is just a character. Lady Lackless is a real person, with feelings that can be hurt.” She looked up at me.

She ran her hand over my head and smiled like the sun. “I imagine you could make it up to both Lady Lackless and myself if you found some sweet nettle for the pot tonight.”

I think that last statement is particularly telling. How is the gossiping about Lady Lackless made up for by a troupers wife being given some ingredient for her soup? Unless she also happened to be the Lady Lackless of song.

There's also this:

Ben poured from a clay jug into a leather mug and handed it to my mother. His breath fogged as he spoke. “How do they feel about demons off in Atur?” he asked.
“Scared.” My father tapped his temple. “All that religion makes their brains soft.”
“How about off in Vintas?” Ben asked. “Fair number of them are Tehlins. Do they feel the same way?”
My mother shook her head. “They think it’s a little silly. They like their demons metaphorical.”
“What are they afraid of at night in Vintas then?”
“The Fae,” my mother said.

Kvothe's mother seems to be pretty good with Vintish superstition. That on its own means nothing, but added to the rest, it certainly seems to point to her being Vintish.

I was looking for physical descriptions of Kvothe's mother. She had dark hair. Lady Meluan has chestnut hair. Another point in favour of this theory of blood relation between the two. Having thought about it again, I buy it. Kvothe is her nephew. Two many things line up in favour of this theory.

[Slick Mongoose]

TeaSpoon, on 03 March 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

"None be left alive" as in "all should be killed." Bast was terrified that there was a single scrael running around, certain that it would lead to more. Asexual reproduction could explain that fear.

There's no need for asexual reproduction to explain that fear, they're drawn to each other.

[AverageGuy]

TeaSpoon, on 03 March 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

"None be left alive" as in "all should be killed." Bast was terrified that there was a single scrael running around, certain that it would lead to more.

Ah, sorry, I automatically conjugated it.  In my defense, the subjunctive always confuses things

Quote

Asexual reproduction could explain that fear.

So could travel in clutters, but I see your point.  It would be one reason Kvothe might feel responsible.

Edited by AverageGuy, 03 March 2011 - 06:40 PM.

[Slick Mongoose]

TeaSpoon, on 03 March 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:

I think Lanre changed his name. Selitos said he was different when he met him before the fall of Myr Tariniel. Changing one's name is a bad thing, if Elodin's reaction at the end of Wise Man's Fear is anything to go by.

So has Kvothe done the same?

[Gaston de Foix]

One more detail in relation to Kvothe's mother being Netalia Lackless. Meluan Lackless has dark brown eyes, Kvothe's mother had green eyes. She is also described as dark, which might refer to either complexion or hair colour, but either way Meluan Lackless has different eye colour from Netalia.

[Lord of Starfall]

Quote

Quote

TeaSpoon, on 03 March 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:
I think Lanre changed his name. Selitos said he was different when he met him before the fall of Myr Tariniel. Changing one's name is a bad thing, if Elodin's reaction at the end of Wise Man's Fear is anything to go by.

So has Kvothe done the same?

I wouldn't think that Kvothe to Kote would count, but it might explain why his magic doesn't work anymore. He does seem determined not to be the same person he used to be.

A somewhat wild theory I had was that Denna's patron might be Haliax or an agent of his. He certainly does seem to be trying to establish Lanre as a hero, and he had her show up in Trebon just in time for the Chandrian strike.

Quote

Is there anything mentioned at all to suggest which kingdom Kvothe's inn is in?

I'm fairly certain it's in Vint. If nothing else, the coinage works out. They use royals in Vint, and that's what recruits get for enlisting in the army. I'm pretty sure there was some better evidence than this, but I don't remember what it was.

Also Ambrose is Vintish, and whether or not he's the king who Kvothe kills, I'm sure he's involved.

Edited by Lord of Starfall, 03 March 2011 - 10:15 PM.

[TeaSpoon]

Lord of Starfall, on 03 March 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

I wouldn't think that Kvothe to Kote would count, but it might explain why his magic doesn't work anymore. He does seem determined not to be the same person he used to be.

That's a good theory. I have another.

"I swear I won’t attempt to uncover your patron," I said bitterly. "I swear it on my name and my power. I swear it by my good left hand. I swear it by the ever-moving moon." - chapter seventy-three, Blood and Ink

No left hand means that he cannot play his lute. He wouldn't want to be around music if he wasn't able to join in, explaining why there's no music in the inn. It might explain the third silence too. After all, Kvote defines himself by his music. As for his name and his power... He lost the ability to do sympathy and probably naming. And I suspect that his name is locked inside the thrice locked box, outside his reach.

Now I'm not saying that the moon struck him down the moment he tried to uncover Denna's patron, but the search might have led him down a road to eventually led to disaster. The question is why he would do such a thing. It could be as simple as worry for Denna safety and well-being. Maybe it was jealousy. Or maybe he suspected the patron of being a chandrian.

[EDIT]

Kote nodded and gave an irritated sigh. "Yes. The news is already out, so it can't be helped. We'll have to deal with them as they come. Luckily, everyone with two good hands will be busy in the fields until midday, so we won't have to worry about it until—"

The innkeeper's fingers fumbled clumsily, snapping the holly branch and jabbing a thorn deep into the fleshy part of his thumb. The red-haired man didn't flinch or curse, just scowled angrily down at his hand as a bead of blood welled up, bright as a berry.

Frowning, the innkeeper brought his thumb to his mouth. All the laughter faded from his expression, and his eyes were hard and dark. He tossed the half-finished holly cord aside in a gesture so pointedly casual it was almost frightening.

Evidence?

Edited by TeaSpoon, 04 March 2011 - 01:09 AM.