The Wise Man's Fear IV (SPOILERS)

[Thaykora]

Off-topic question @ Grinachu (or anyone that knows):

Several threads back I asked a question about the parts of Atur and Vintas that were way off in the lands of other countries (on the map) and whether they might be colonies. Do you remember where in the books you saw the bit about Atur/Vint having navys that lead to colonization, or that these places had valuable minerals? I have a really random idea and the book reference would be awesome.

The Aturan Empire and Vint have navies that have allowed them to colonise these parts which have valuable raw materials.

[Slick Mongoose]

Maybe I can get him to name them on Thursday.

If you're meeting Pat (or anyone else is), the one big question I think most people want answered is whether or not there will be a 2nd trilogy following on from the first. :)

Thanks.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

SM,

No, I just don't understand why you think that Skarpi calling Kvothe Kvothe is an error. Because it really doesn't look like one to me.

I agree. As I pointed out two threads ago I think that was quite deliberate by Rothfuss. Names and Naming are very important in this series. It's possible Skarpi knowing Kvothe's name is an oversight by Rothfuss just not likely.

[Gaston de Foix]

Off-topic question @ Grinachu (or anyone that knows):

Several threads back I asked a question about the parts of Atur and Vintas that were way off in the lands of other countries (on the map) and whether they might be colonies. Do you remember where in the books you saw the bit about Atur/Vint having navys that lead to colonization, or that these places had valuable minerals? I have a really random idea and the book reference would be awesome.

erm, I know the Vints have a navy because Ambrose's father is called the King of the pirate isles. It stands to reason they have a navy.

I don't think there's any reference to an Aturan navy. It was speculation on my part, I think.

[Gaston de Foix]

If you're meeting Pat (or anyone else is), the one big question I think most people want answered is whether or not there will be a 2nd trilogy following on from the first. :)

Thanks.

the big questions I want to know is what bad thing happened on Shep's farm? What are the special properties of copper and amber? (I know you will ask this anyway Thistle), whether Teccam founded the university, why Auri only comes on nights with a moon, whether Master Kilvin will ever discover an ever burning lamp, what happened to Elodin to lose his wits, how does he react to readers disliking Denna* (this might be a question he actually answers), whether it's depressing to write a story with such tragic undertones (and overtones), what he thinks of the HBO production of a Game of Thrones, if he could absorb the powers of any one author, which author's powers he would like to absorb, whether he would like to see a television or film adaption of the novels...pauses for breath, oh yeah and also run by him all the theories we have discussed on his forum, Teaspoon's brilliant insights, your own discoveries (the Lockless box being made out the wood of the Rhinna tree etc etc)? Whether we have seen any Amyr in the novels?

Can you please ask all of that, Thistle ;)

failing that, just ask SM's sensible question...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Grin,

Auri is out on nights with the moon in the sky.

[Gaston de Foix]

Grin,

Auri is out on nights with the moon in the sky.

oh yeah, my bad.

[Slick Mongoose]

I wouldn't want him to answer most of those. And similarly, I hope that Pat resists the temptation to spell everything out explicitly in the next book.

Ambiguity is more fun.

[thistlepong]

Thaykora: Atur had a navy in order to conquer Yll.

Zottel: "Wait, Sim's father is a duke?" (just to clarifuy what he's surprised by)\

Dune: I like the idea that S, K, and C are at least associated with the temporal Amyr. One of the oddities in their interaction comes early. Kvothe insists Chronicler tell him, "How's the road to Tinue?" Chronicler balks, hesitates, and then answers. I know it's a colloquialism, but after a few hundred years the whole world would be saying it and maybe there is a code answer. I'm not saying I believe it, or that this is proof, but I like it.

Questions: I'll write 'em all down at least. After listening to several interviews and reading what's available I doubt anything potentially revealing will get an answer. It seems like he considers a definitive answer to, "Will there be another trilogy?" a spoiler. Whomever squeezed out six magics is a hero. I knind of wanna know why the German appendix lists the days with inaccurate names in the wrong order.

Grin: These aren't answers, really...

The amber ring that controlls demons is one of the things Will wishes for. Anyone catch that?

Teccam seems to be the opposite of Nalto. Everyone seems to attribute all wisdom to him while Kvothe often provides the actual source of pithy wisdom.

Information on everburning lamps can be found in a book titled The Secret Teachings of All Ages. Many of kilvin's solutions appear in it. It was kind of a happy accident finding that.

[Gaston de Foix]

[thistlepong]

Sim does wish for a red ring to control demons.

The rhyme has Kvothe wearing an amber ring on his left hand.

Felurian suggests she might have gifted Kvothe with amber in between offering him a crown that would make people love him or a shield that would keep him safe from harm.

At page 960, Kvothe again hears a rumour that he a has ring of amber that allows him to command demons.

(snip)

It's not clear if apparently all civilised people believe there is no such thing as amber how it can command demons. Maybe it forces the Fae to obey you?

Relevant lines:

On his first hand he wore rings of stone,

Iron, amber, wood, and bone.

Kindle L543

"I want a magical horse that fits in my pocket," Wil said. "And a ring of red amber that gives me power over demons. And an endless supply of cake."

Kindle L5708

"another i would gift with amber, bind a scabard tight with glamour, or craft a crown so men might look on you with love."

Kindle L13164

Apparently I owned a ring of amber which could force demons to obey me.

Kindle L19194

It is clear that amber is widely apprehended. He uses "trapped like a fly in amber" to describe the courtyard with access to the Underthing. He repeatedly describes Alveron's medicine as amber in color. And in NotW he notes that maple syrup is a deep amber.

It's notable that Kvothe knows almost nothing about the Shald in the present. Wil may actually take Faen for granted. He refers to the Tehlins as a pagan church. Might be nothing, though.

[Merihathor]

Something that struck me last night while rereading NTW:

A moon theme seems to thread throughout the book and touches several characters--Iax/Jax being the obvious one, Kvothe and Faerie being another, and some have suggested that Auri *is* the moon. However, I noticed it even with Denna:

--She wanders/travels quite a bit

--She is mercurial, in that her name changes frequently; one name is Dianne, which made me think of the goddess Diana

--A few quotes (emphasis in bold text mine; my comments about these are in italics):

"However..." I slowed my walk a bit, my smile fading into a more serious expression. "What about Sovoy?"

Her mouth made a line. "He's staked a claim on me then?"

"Well, not as such. But there are certain protocols involved..."

"A gentleman's agreement?" she asked acidly.

"More like honor among thieves, if you will."

She looked me in the eye. "Kvothe," she said seriously. "Steal me."

(Probably nothing, but this reminded me of how Iax/Jax "stole" the moon, so to speak.)

She stopped and turned to look at me. "All this and you pick a flower I don't know? What is a selas flower? Why?"

"It is a deep red flower that grows on a strong vine. Its leaves are dark and delicate. The grow best in shadowy places (as does the moon in the night sky), but the flower itself finds stray sunbeams to bloom in." (again, the moon reflects the light from the sun, so there is a relationship here) I looked at her. "That suits you. There is much of you that is both shadow and light. (again, as is the moon) It grows in deep forests and is rare because only skilled folk can tend one without harming it. (only a namer has been able to "capture" it, although imperfectly--because he did not listen to her...this touches on what Elodin has to say about love in WMF) It has wondrous smell and is much sought and seldom found." (phases of the moon, perhaps, or how the moon wanders so much that it's hard to pin down)

She caught a piece of my smile and shone it back at me. (she is reflecting Kvothe's passion/fire here in her smile, as the moon reflects the light of the sun, although just a bit...just a stray sunbeam, if you will).

I realize that this is all personal interpretation, and thus deeply flawed or open to weakness. However, I thought it was interesting and wondered if this was really there and deliberately so. Any thoughts?

[Dremora]

I still think Auri is the moon and part of her name is locked inside the lockless box. I think when Kvothe opens it he does it whilst the moon is in the Fae, making it stay there. Also he could free Iax, who has shaped the screal and that mercenary demon.

I wouldn't be suprised if Denna is a Yllish princess and the barron king is her patron.

[thistlepong]

Funny, she doesn't look Yllish.

:cool4:

[Dremora]

Dont remember what they look like lol.

Was wondering if anyone knew what a dennerling was. After Kvothe spoke to the Ctheah Felurian said to him "Only a dennerling would speak to the Ctheah". Is Kvothe a Dennerling? Are they the Sithe or do the Sithe let them talk to it?

[Gaston de Foix]

Relevant lines:

On his first hand he wore rings of stone,

Iron, amber, wood, and bone.

Kindle L543

"I want a magical horse that fits in my pocket," Wil said. "And a ring of red amber that gives me power over demons. And an endless supply of cake."

Kindle L5708

"another i would gift with amber, bind a scabard tight with glamour, or craft a crown so men might look on you with love."

Kindle L13164

Apparently I owned a ring of amber which could force demons to obey me.

Kindle L19194

It is clear that amber is widely apprehended.

whoops, that's embarassing. I meant to say since all civilised people agree there is no such thing as demons, it's not clear how amber would be of any use. I wasn't questioning the existence of amber. Your kindle citations are pretty much the same as mine on that point.

So I took it as read that on the left hand he wore rings that were about his position in the world. This fits a little uneasily with Elodin's quote that wearing rings on the left hand was something none of those studying naming were ready for yet, but beyond noticing the inconsistency between the rings Kvothe wearing on his left hand being about the mundane world of politics, and Elodin's suggestion that rings on the left symbolises something else, I'm not sure where to go with this (of course it's possible it was just a marriage gag by Elodin!).

We know that the wood and bone rings come from Meluan and Stapes respectively. Perhaps the iron is a sign that he is taken back into the good graces of Maer Alveron? It's hard to see another explanation for an iron ring on his left hand. We will definitely see Vint again, there are too many loose ends there.

Which leaves the amber ring with the supposed power to command demons, and the stone ring. Are rings of stone mentioned anywhere in the book? It's also strange if all these other rings are to do with politics then he should wear a ring with supernatural powers among them. But maybe he ran out of room on his other hand?

[Teri]

Was wondering if anyone knew what a dennerling was. After Kvothe spoke to the Ctheah Felurian said to him "Only a dennerling would speak to the Ctheah". Is Kvothe a Dennerling? Are they the Sithe or do the Sithe let them talk to it?

I took it as meaning a denner addict. That seems to be the common assumption.

[Spaceman Hobbes]

Dune: I like the idea that S, K, and C are at least associated with the temporal Amyr. One of the oddities in their interaction comes early. Kvothe insists Chronicler tell him, "How's the road to Tinue?" Chronicler balks, hesitates, and then answers. I know it's a colloquialism, but after a few hundred years the whole world would be saying it and maybe there is a code answer. I'm not saying I believe it, or that this is proof, but I like it.

I think at this point we can't really prove anyone's Amyr, so I'll just speculate wildly with contextual stretches. And during my second read I couldn't help but notice that K and C were just awkward during their first scene at the Waystone. Almost like they both belong to a secret club and they just don't know it.

Here's another thought. Who are the singers? Cinder(and presumably all his super evil buddies) seem to fear three groups. The Amyr and Sithe we know about, but we haven't seen or heard from the singers. So crackpot theory time. What is they key to shaping is music. Kvothe story seems to be heading in a music=magic direction. Kvothe talks in the first book about learning to play what was happening around him in the forest. I get the impression that his sleeping mind was naming things with music. He then turns Leaf on a Wind(or whatever it was called) into a mental exercise while he's with the Adem. And when he uses that mental exercise to pass their test he calls the name of the wind.

Something I've observed about naming is that we really don't get an indication that names change. Since C knows the name of Iron he is able to bind Bast. The name of the wind, by contrast, is referred to as ever changing. Kvothe and Elodin seem to be focusing on the name of the wind, what if this is because understanding the ever changing name leads to the ability to change the names of other things, shaping them. Finally, since Kvothe is musically inclined and can name things with music(maybe), could he change the song? And if this is the case, could the singers be a romanticized name for shapers, and the Chardarian fear Shapers because they either are shapers themselves, or shapers hold some power over them.

[Dremora]

I took it as meaning a denner addict. That seems to be the common assumption.

I don't think so, in TNotW he mentions them while tlking about faries.

“It’s what I was looking for,” I said. The Chandrian were here less than a day ago. “But I didn’t expect this. I mean, when you’re a child and you go digging for buried treasure, you don’t expect to find any You go looking for dennerlings and faeries in the forest, but you don’t find them.” They’d killed my troupe, and they’d killed this wedding party. “Hell, I go looking for you in Imre all the time, but I don’t actually expect to find you....” I trailed off, realizing that I was blathering.

Then he finds a book than mentions them in TWMF,

Eventually I discovered a slim volume called The Book of Secrets buried deep in the Dead Ledgers. It was an odd book: arranged like a bestiary but written like a children's primer. It had pictures of faerie-tale creatures like ogres, trow, and dennerlings.

[dcon]

Well, how would anybody know if Kvothe killed the Ctheath if everyone is killed after (presumably) speaking to it? ;)

You'd think that at some point the Sithe would know that the one thing they're supposed to be guarding is dead idk