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[BOOK & TV SPOILERS] What was left out and what was left in.


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#1 Bishop437

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 10:56 PM

Here there be spoilers. If you have not read this book you shouldn't be reading this

I thought a few thing that they changed were interesting. First thing is it seems "the Others" will be refered to as "the White Walkers". I like the move for television because viewers may not pick up on just who "the Others" are. Easy enough. They changed the way the epiloge resolves although it doesn't matter very much. Royce still dies but without putting up a fight. The wrong ranger survived the encounter with "the Others" as it was the older more grizzeled man who was beheaded by Eddard in the snow. I noticed that some of the things I would have expected to happen when "the White Walkers" appeared didn't happen. It didn't get noticely colder. There seemed to be only one. And they actually let the young ranger live which I think is out of charecter for them. They hate the living and doubt very much that they would have let him go to serve as a warning to the Wall or the Seven Kingdoms. But as I said it changes nothing really. I wonder why they left out the coldness that travels with them or that they only appear in the night but I still found it to be very well done. I didn't mind the pace of the show really. Alot of things have to happen in each episode and I expect things to move right along. It actually makes me think that because of the way things are moving I think Its entirely possible that Ned may only be in ... 3... mabey 4 episodes before his card gets punched. So much has still got to happen!

Edited by Kat, 18 April 2011 - 01:15 AM.


#2 KyleLitke

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 01:52 AM

Here there be spoilers. If you have not read this book you shouldn't be reading this

I thought a few thing that they changed were interesting. First thing is it seems "the Others" will be refered to as "the White Walkers". I like the move for television because viewers may not pick up on just who "the Others" are. Easy enough. They changed the way the epiloge resolves although it doesn't matter very much. Royce still dies but without putting up a fight. The wrong ranger survived the encounter with "the Others" as it was the older more grizzeled man who was beheaded by Eddard in the snow. I noticed that some of the things I would have expected to happen when "the White Walkers" appeared didn't happen. It didn't get noticely colder. There seemed to be only one. And they actually let the young ranger live which I think is out of charecter for them. They hate the living and doubt very much that they would have let him go to serve as a warning to the Wall or the Seven Kingdoms. But as I said it changes nothing really. I wonder why they left out the coldness that travels with them or that they only appear in the night but I still found it to be very well done. I didn't mind the pace of the show really. Alot of things have to happen in each episode and I expect things to move right along. It actually makes me think that because of the way things are moving I think Its entirely possible that Ned may only be in ... 3... mabey 4 episodes before his card gets punched. So much has still got to happen!


As far as Ned goes, I'm not sure if there are 8 or 10 episodes in this season...I doubt Ned dies in the final episode, maybe not even in the second to last, but it wouldn't be as early as 3 or 4. There's actually not all that much going on after Ned dies in the first book. A bit, enough for at least one episode and probably 2, but I don't think any more than that.

As far as the Others, I'd bet it's due to Lost. The "bad guys" in Lost were called The Others. Doesn't matter to most people if the books came out first or not, people will see it as a ripoff if they're continuously called that. I'm just speculating there but I'd bet that's a big reason why they're calling them the White Walkers.

#3 TheKassi

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:20 AM

Honestly I am nothing short of ridiculously impressed over how much of the core plot remains unaltered. If I compare it to other translations I have seen in the past several years, such as The Dresden Files or Sword of Truth, and I am astounded of the quality of the reproduction. The show will not be perfect, I would guess as time goes inconsistencies will build upon inconsistencies, but heck after watching tonight I would not be surprised if I am proven dead wrong.

Hope HBO picks up more books.

#4 Tall Tyrion Lannister!

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:21 AM

I don't think Ned loses his head in 3 or 4 episodes. Once Eddard bites the dust there's only enough for one episode really. You have the King of the North part,Sansa's ending and Dany with the fire. so he'll probably be dead around episode 9.

#5 ingsve

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 07:16 AM

As far as I can tell Eddards death is the cliffhanger for the 9th episode.

#6 ingsve

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 07:27 AM

As for things that were left out then the presenting of the three weapons to Dany who refuses them and gives them to Drogo instead was left out. That makes sense though since not all the bloodriders are cast and also it removes the fact that Dany had memorized the custom of refusing the weapons. Not having that scene makes her look even more uneasy and out of place at the wedding. Having her actually partake in a ritual like that would have made the tone different. They also didn't present her handmaidens to her but that would have just added more characters to introduce and it makes sense to spread things like that out a bit.

As for things that were added I think it all made good sense. I think they might have overdone it a bit with the nudity since some people seem to think it was a bit too much. They could easily have covered a few more of them up just so that it wasn't so blatant. It would have been enough to show Ros and Dany I think.

#7 reiver

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:07 AM

A few things i noticed changed:

Ned's speech to Bran about bravery and about how a person who deserts is dangerous (which ties in to Osha's intro).

Jon dropping "trueborn" when he says a pup for each of your children.

Robb snapping at Theon which seems to put them at odds earlier and also the way it hinted toward Theon's loyalty being more to Ned. Made them seem less brotherly.

No nipple twisting from Viserys which, combined with making Dany naked vs. the book, changed the tone of his abuse of her.

Ned said "she was my sister" rather than she was a Stark when Robert complains about burying her in the crypt. Also ned doesn't mention that he was with her when she died.

Robert says "in my dreams i kill him every night" which is odd as it's not clear who "he" is or why Robert is saying this. Admittedly Ned's next line makes it clearer ("the targaryens are gone") but the books line of "I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her" seems to me a lot better. Even if they replaced Rhaegar for the more nebulous "him" it would make the scene and what it's trying to convey clearer for newcomers, giving a bit of history and motivation for only a few words more. The link to Dany works quite well and could still be included ie:
R:"I vowed to kill him for what he did to her"
N:"You did"
R:"Only once! In my dreams i kill him every night."
then *as in the show*

I know it's a bit nitpicky but hell it's the internet and this is one of my favourite scenes in the book and one of the most significant in the whole series as it sets up so much and conveys so much info. I love the "only once" line and it saddens me that this was cut. That the scene ended up bookending the horrible Tyrion and his whores scene only rubs salt in the wounds. Chopping up this section is bad enough but it also is very clear what the lines of dialogue were chopped to include. Yay for nipples. /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> Any time anyone talks about the difficulty of getting through 80 pages in one episode they need to look at that utterly extraneous excuse for nudity. I see no problem with tyrion being introed as he was in the book or at least a combo of that and the Arya talking about the imp.

No wick dipping or hand shitting /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

I missed the conversation Bran overhears as it has some nice backstory and a false trail over the death of Jon Arryn although i suppose that the added Cersei Jaime scene in KL covered some of that.

Other than the one i went into detail on i didn't really have too many complaints about the adaptation. It hit most of the beats i wanted it to (ie. "all dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes") and the additions worked out well. The scene between Catelyn and Cersei was gold and one of my favourite bits from the episode. Catelyn's look when Cersei makes the sweet but obviously calculated barbed remark about Sansa making her dress sold me on Michelle Fairley.

Edited by reiver, 18 April 2011 - 09:12 AM.


#8 gumby

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:22 AM

So the king just decided to say 'fuck my house'? Every banner in the kings party was Lannister and not one banner was Baratheon. This is probably going to confuse a lot of people with no point of reference and the thought that Robert would be soooo whipped by Cersei that he wouldn't even have one banner that represents his house is kinda of infuriating.

The 'No' scene was great until they left out Dany saying "Yes'.

#9 Tobin

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:34 AM

The 'No' scene was great until they left out Dany saying "Yes'.


Yeah, I had to explain that one to my guests who hadn't read the books.
The way the scene is cut it implys that he rapes her - but he really doesn't. After I explained what was missing, my friends were a bit easier with it (I had told them this wasn't their normal fantasy show, but I think they underestimated how different).


Watching the show play out - you realilze just how much subtext is included in the books.

#10 Summer Bass

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:36 AM

No nipple twisting from Viserys which, combined with making Dany naked vs. the book, changed the tone of his abuse of her.


That was one of the very few things that I thought felt "off". I like the Viserys we see in the show, but he really needs to be more unstable and temperamental. It's part of what made him so unpleasant.

#11 Huan

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:17 AM

I missed Ghost in the scene between Jon and Tyrion. Sounds like they're using the direwolves less in the show due to training issues, but hopefully they'll show Ghost going with Jon to the Wall and presumably Nymeria will put in a much-needed appearance in the next episode.

#12 juicy b0nes

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:39 AM

That was one of the very few things that I thought felt "off". I like the Viserys we see in the show, but he really needs to be more unstable and temperamental. It's part of what made him so unpleasant.


I totally agree. When reading the books, Viserys always seemed unpredictable in that you never knew the next cruel or stupid thing he would do next. Nipple twisting ftw!

#13 snookyrump

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:49 AM

Ned's big chapter looks to be #7: "You Win or You Die"

#14 Huan

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:50 AM

I totally agree. When reading the books, Viserys always seemed unpredictable in that you never knew the next cruel or stupid thing he would do next. Nipple twisting ftw!


I was totally dreading actually seeing nipple twisting and much preferred to see him touch her breast. That was creepy enough for TV.

#15 juicy b0nes

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:01 AM

I was totally dreading actually seeing nipple twisting and much preferred to see him touch her breast. That was creepy enough for TV.


Both are creepy, however nipple twisting implies (assumed) control, while touching of breast implies that he just wants to hook up with his sister. I did get the sense that he is both attracted to Dany and his need to control her at the same time, which is good. I just think that the nipple twist would have shown the pathetic attempt to find any sort of power over anyone..

#16 alguien

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:02 AM

So there were a couple minor changes that made me wonder a few things.

What was up with the feather that Robert put into Lyanna's statue's hand? Was that just something the writers threw in to give the show a little ambiance, or was it some memorial of a time that Robert and Lyanna went hawking or something?

Sean Bean had a lot of prolific scars on his chest. Was this merely to show how much of a hardened warrior he was or could they be scars from a certain duel at the Tower of Joy?

Why were the wildling bodies arraigned with a circle slash? Another addition to up the creepy factor (it worked) or do the Others have some kind of symbolic magic they wanted to work?

Nothing major and I'm think they're good either way. But some of the changes make me wonder, do the creators of the show do them based on info given by GRRM? Or is it just adaptation changes?

In any event, LOVED the first episode. Great stuff!

#17 Rattle Pants

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:09 AM

Quite well done. Loved the majority of the added scenes. Shifting Cersei's and Jaime's conspiring from the love scene to KL was brilliant I thought. Gave it better pacing. Though I too got the totally wrong vibe from the "No" scene. I'm wondering if they're setting up Drogo to be less sympathetic. Because I'm not sure how they'll show Dany's growing affection for him later on after this scene.

#18 Winterfelled

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:38 AM

I actually prefer the TV version of the "No" scene. I didn't particularly buy that Dany would go from being scared and humiliated to willingly spreading her legs for this horselord at the first glimmer of humanity in him. This change makes it a bit more realistic, and it doesn't hurt anything going forward. Even if their relationship is portrayed as more of a captive/captor (which, in reality, it is), it doesn't preclude her from falling in love with him.

I was very impressed overall with the episode. I thought they were faithful in all the right places, and their cuts thusfar seem to be for the best.

#19 Trebla

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:49 AM

I was expecting the "nipple twist" but wasn't bothered by the lack of it. I thought Harry Lloyd's performance conveyed that Viserys isn't all there. Just his mannerisms portrayed an "off" feeling. He switches from doting brother when he brought her the fabric to creepy as he disrobed her. Plus, his comment that he'd let 40,000 Dothraki have Dany for his throne showed he was cruel.

I also liked his face when Illyrio presented Dany with the dragon eggs. He looked like a child with his feelings hurt.

#20 Snow White

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 12:14 PM

I missed the nipple twist, but really just because I was expecting it. The GF hasn't read the books, and she got the proper "this guy is creep" vibe.

Tyrion's 'banquet' seemed odd to me, but it does establish his proclivities from jump. The drawback is that, since it's not made clear that they're whores (combined with Peter's good looks,) it undermines his 'ugly dwarf who thinks he has to pay for sex' hangup.

The Ranger sinking to his knees in front of the Other White Walker was a big mistake. Lots of people (The GF included) thought that meant he was done for, and didn't connect him with the Ranger who showed up south of the Wall.