27 replies to this topic

[Xray the Enforcer]

pg 372

[Loras]

Another interesting Jon chapter, he is absolutely losing the plot though.  He seems to have forgotten the vows of the Night's Watch.  I think the letter from Ramsay will lead him to forsaking the vow and throwing in his lot with Stannis.  The scene with Melisandre and Ghost also seems to have been foreshadowing something quite heavily in the future... exactly what is Mel up to?

I doubt that the ranging party that has gone to its death is the one containing Ser Alliser which is  a shame.

Also, I don't think that the girl on the horse is Arya Stark, but Jeyne Poole.

[Guinevere Seaworth]

I'm a bit puzzled as to what happened to Ghost.  It seems that Mel had him under thrall, which doesn't seem right as I get the feeling that Ghost of all direwolves is the most connected to the old gods.  Does that mean R'hllor overwhelms the north and the old gods?
Also does Mel imply that she knows that Jon is a warg and encourages him to use that talent?  And does Mel want to make shadowbabies with Jon?  

[sunfish]

Guinevere Seaworth, on 14 July 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

I'm a bit puzzled as to what happened to Ghost.  It seems that Mel had him under thrall, which doesn't seem right as I get the feeling that Ghost of all direwolves is the most connected to the old gods.  Does that mean R'hllor overwhelms the north and the old gods?
Also does Mel imply that she knows that Jon is a warg and encourages him to use that talent?  And does Mel want to make shadowbabies with Jon?  

Mel indeed sounded like she wanted to make shadow babies with Jon. Except for making me bit worried for Jon (run, run for your life, Jon ) I didn't find it surprising coming from her. From the previous experience she needs somebody strong to be able to make shadow babies, right? She depleted Stannis, I am not sure do I remember correctly but didn't she at some point want to use Davos as well, and like she said herself there is power in Jon (and Ghost as well) that she wants to use (I don't trust her at all).

[bac5665]

It's not Pool who'll come on a horse of death, it'll be Arya as an assassin, to kill Jon.  I never liked that prediction before now, but now I'm convinced.

[AnotherDeadStark]

Wow, great Jon chapter. He is seriously in some trouble, I really hope he hasn't forgotten his vows and that he stays true to his own gods instead of working with Melisandre and R'hllor. I feel like he might if he believes it will help him to save his sister though. I worry about him now even more than I had in earlier chapters. He is in an absolutely brutal position.

[The BlackWolf]

Loved this chapter.  Never really been a fan of Melisandre before now, but even I felt drawn in by her at the end of the chapter! Does she have some warging power to control Ghost? Totally don't trust her intentions with Jon, but now there's a part of me that wants her to be freaking awesome and be a useful aide at his side, however doubtful.

Also, picturing Ygritte- suggestions of R&L=J?  I'm becoming more and more against the theory, but GRRM is clearly loving throwing teasers in whenever he can now!

Agree that Alliser Thorne won't die, and that this is gonna be some incredible foreshadowing looking back at some point in the future.

[Tyro Lannister]

I was totally expecting an Arya chapter after this one.

Rhaegar, on 16 July 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:

Also, picturing Ygritte- suggestions of R&L=J?  I'm becoming more and more against the theory, but GRRM is clearly loving throwing teasers in whenever he can now!

Can anyone explain this?  I didn't get any R+L=J feeling from that scene.. I'm gonna go reread that part.

[Iotun]

So much tension... short but sweet chapter. I wonder if Jon taking Rattleshirt's challenge and losing was a mistake - something to make his men lose faith in him. I also liked how the wildling bested Jon - nice that Martin didn't turn Jon to the stereotypical noble and invincible swordsman, and nice that we get to see how the wildling heroes are worth their name as well.

I think it was Mel who told Jon that his enemies and his friends may not be who they appear to be. I have to wonder if Thorne is in fact Jon's enemy. Its obvious that he has no loving feelings for Jon, but Thorne has at least always seem devoted to the cause of the nights watch. I'd say that its the head steward who is the one that Jon should be afraid of.

What I was wondering about the Arya prediction actually, was whether Mel is making some of the things she is seeing in the fire up. I believe she said that Arya is in fact fleeing from her wedding - I wonder if she's lying to manipulate Jon to have shadow babies with him.

[Tyro Lannister]

Oh I just came up with a theory about Arya fleeing her wedding.. might be pretty obvious to some of ya's too, I'll put spoiler tags around it so anyone who doesn't want to see it doesn't, just a theory though.

Spoiler

It didn't hit me right away, not until I was reading in here that it just came to me.. Arya is fleeing the wedding because of Ramsey 'Bolton' Snow's love of the hunt.. can only guess what might happen then.. though obviously Jon will know that she isn't Arya and if the Bolton's somehow find out she's gone to the Wall, the Night's Watch might just get dragged into Stannis' war to take the North.  Technically Jon should hand her over if they come to claim her, he has no business interfering in the affairs of the realm after all.. but, they might not take kindly to Jon raining on their wedding parade with the claim she isn't Arya.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I am guessing that the girl in grey on the horse to the wall in Mel's vision is really Sansa, not Arya.  There you go, theory posted.

[TheEvilKing]

MyDogIsNamedDanerys, on 20 July 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:

I am guessing that the girl in grey on the horse to the wall in Mel's vision is really Sansa, not Arya.  There you go, theory posted.

Damn, I came to post this.

You win this time.  

[The Adequate Jon]

I'm surprised that those speculating that it wasn't Mance who died in the earlier Jon chapter aren't commenting on this one.  In Jon's conversation with Rattleshirt, they talk about how the wrong king was killed and how the whole point of the execution was to put on a show for the people to see their king die.  Also, Mel can make herself look like Yggritte, maybe that thing on Rattleshirt's wrist makes him (actually Mance) look like Rattleshirt.

[Completely Headless Ned]

Who would she want to take out with the Shadowbabies? The part that weirded me out was with Ghost, Mel seems to have some sort of power over him. i also found it creepy that she was steaming, I'm used to mel being warm and stuff but it was just weird to me.

[JD44Irish]

The Adequate Jon, on 21 July 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

I'm surprised that those speculating that it wasn't Mance who died in the earlier Jon chapter aren't commenting on this one.  In Jon's conversation with Rattleshirt, they talk about how the wrong king was killed and how the whole point of the execution was to put on a show for the people to see their king die.  Also, Mel can make herself look like Yggritte, maybe that thing on Rattleshirt's wrist makes him (actually Mance) look like Rattleshirt.

Only 26 pages til Mel's first chapter!!!

[Bale Dayne]

I think there is no doubt at this point that the "Mance" that was slain is not Mance, but was Rattleshirt, and that Mel has dweamored Mance to look like Rattleshirt.  

The personalities say it all.

[Tammy]

I don't think it's Arya.  Melisandra has said that she misinterprets her visions sometimes.  It could be Sansa or some other young girl coming to the wall.  I don't know who else it would be though at this point.  I was thinking Jeyne Westerling for a second but I don't think that's possible or plausible.

Edited by Angalin, 17 January 2012 - 01:59 PM.
removed spoilers

[Morky_Pep]

Spoiler alert drogons mother. As far as ive heard, Reek says the Arya fake is Jeyne Poole. Seeing how Mel says that shes running away from the Bolton Wedding to the wall so i would assume it is Jeyne.

I dont know if your an idiot or posting a spoiler from a later chapter

[Jennelyn]

The Adequate Jon, on 21 July 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

I'm surprised that those speculating that it wasn't Mance who died in the earlier Jon chapter aren't commenting on this one.  In Jon's conversation with Rattleshirt, they talk about how the wrong king was killed and how the whole point of the execution was to put on a show for the people to see their king die.  Also, Mel can make herself look like Yggritte, maybe that thing on Rattleshirt's wrist makes him (actually Mance) look like Rattleshirt.

I was definitely getting a Mance vibe from Rattleshirt. It's got to be a spell of Mel's! Can't wait to find out exactly what the purpose of that ruby he's wearing is.

[Fryie]

Ah, finally things start getting interesting again.

Nice observation with Alliser Thorne vs. Bowen Marsh, whoever made it. I hadn't thought of it, but now that you mention it ... he is so adamant about sealing the gate, I wonder if Jon's constantly turning him down won't make him an enemy in the end.
But that's just speculation, could be wrong of course.

I'm also wondering who the girl on the horse really is.