Golden Imp Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Where did it say that AA reborn must sacrifice a loved one? That's what AA did the first time to make Lightbringer, but where does it say the same events recur for the rebirth? Having asked that, if a sacrifice is necessary, Jon's (presumed) death was a kind of sacrifice and doesn't that serve the purpose?Yeah this is my line of thinking, where does it say he has to sacrifice anyone to forge light bringer? And maybe Jon uses Longclaw to kill the members of the nightwatch who tried or did kill him. It is no secret that he loves them and their blood may be enough to count as a sacrifice. He will not kill Ghost, Jon has taken a lot of risk and out of the ordinary steps to defend the wall, but he has never sacrifice anyone to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yeah this is my line of thinking, where does it say he has to sacrifice anyone to forge light bringer? And maybe Jon uses Longclaw to kill the members of the nightwatch who tried or did kill him. It is no secret that he loves them and their blood may be enough to count as a sacrifice. He will not kill Ghost, Jon has taken a lot of risk and out of the ordinary steps to defend the wall, but he has never sacrifice anyone to do so.My thoughts on the possible death of Ghost are not so much that Jon will kill him but that Mel might do it, either because Jon's soul gets stuck in Ghost or else because she thinks Rh'llor demands it. Jon will be very very unhappy when he wakes up, if that happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PestilencE Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 It's Ghost.1) He's Jon's all2) Serves as a symbol for the finalising severance from the Starks and adopting a new self Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg1982 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I do think that Jon ends up being stripped of who he is because Mel sees him as the Azor Ahai in Winds of Winter; I think that Theon's whole arc (you have to know your name!) is a clue. Rather than it being tortured from him, Jon goes from being the bastard son of Ned Stark, sworn brother of the Night's Watch, and owner of Ghost to being the Azor Ahai reborn and the rightful heir/ king of Westros in Winds of Winter. And then he rejects his new identity and decides that despite the revelations he's still a Stark and sworn brother of the Night's Watch and will fight the Others on those terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldfeet Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ice was already reforged as "Oathkeeper" which is in UnCat's custody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marakesh Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The idea that Jon's death counts as being reborn under a bleeding star is a red herring I think. I mean its kind of silly to think an ancient prophecy is being fulfilled by this foolish knight getting his head bashed in. It would be like the 3 stooges version of AA. I don't doubt GRRM did it on purpose but I really don't think it counts unless there are several people that together make up this time period's AA.Also, I really hope there isn't some magic ritual at some point that changes the whole plot. Mel is very superstitious that way, more than I would have thought, but is it GRRM's style to have the story revolve around something like that? Stab through your NN and voila get magic sword. And what good is any sword against all those wights? Better off flying and frying em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 It's sad that all those characters so far in the series who somehow came back from supposed death made all of us unwilling to believe that Jon can be dead even after we saw him getting stabbed seriously 3 times. I am stiill having a small hope Jon is gone for good, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roza Ahai Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 ...even after we saw him getting stabbed seriously 3 times. I am stiill having a small hope Jon is gone for good, though.Dany burned in the fire and she is alive. She did not became an UnDany. It's a magic world. If Jon got stabbed seriously, it does not mean he's dead. So, we have two more books and no main POV except of Jon at the Wall. He's definetely is alive as Jon or AA reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_In_The_North Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I don't think that if Jon is AA then Ghost would be his Nissa Nissa. Ghost isn't just really really dear to Jon, he's part of Jon. An actual part of his soul. I hope he falls in love with Ramsay for whatever reason and then Ramsay becomes his Nissa Nissa. I just want to see Ramsay Bolton stabbed in the heart with a sword (or Roose, as poetic justice for Robb. "Robb Stark sends his regards!"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I think it's Ghost. Look at how Jon describes Ghost in one of his earlier ADWD chapters:"Perched above the window, the Old Bear's raven peered down at him with shrewd black eyes. My last friend, Jon thought ruefully. And I had best outlive you, or you'll eat my face as well. Ghost did not count. Ghost was closer than a friend. Ghost was a part of him. Aside from maybe Arya, Ghost is easily the biggest sacrifice Jon could potentially make. He was the deciding factor in Jon's decision to refuse Stannis's offer, when Jon saw him again near the end of A Storm of Swords and realized that he had the colors of the weirwood trees, and was probably sent to him from the Old Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinky Steward Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I think prophecies are wind, and GRRM kind of says the same both in word and in deed. I mean, the characters repeatedly state that prophecies are treacherous, and think GRRM goes an extra step to make sure to take us readers for a ride a bit if we happen to take them too seriously. Look at Dany: the stallion that mounts the world never got born (and wait, shouldn't a stallion be mounted rather than do the mounting, unless he's trying to, you know, procreate??? :)), the perfumed seneschal could be Reznak mo Reznak or the ship Stinky Steward, and how many treasons has she known by now, really? Maegi Jorah Plumm Hizdahr Quentyn, at least five, so there's certainly enough to pick and choose.Same with bleeding star, smoke and salt. Dany certainly fits the prophecy really well, then GRRM makes sure Jon also does by way of sigil, steam and tears, yanking us who suffer from the attention surplus disorder about any word he writes.That said, if Jon has to have a Nissa Nissa, I hope it's Selyse or Borroq :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Steelsong Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Ice was already reforged as "Oathkeeper" which is in UnCat's custody.That is only part of Ice however. Ice was reforged into two swords. Brianne's Oathkeeper and Joffery's (so I guess now Tommen's) Widow's Wail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noroldis Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Didn't Jon note that Ghost was closer to him than any wife? Pure foreshadowing of the sacrifice to come, IMO. Also, it could be that Jon will not simply decide out of the blue to sacrifice him - Ghost might be mortally wounded by some enemy, and Jon will give him the gift of mercy with Longclaw. A quick stab to the heart that is as painful for Jon as its for Ghost... and when Jon withdraws Longclaw, the blade has turned the same red as in his dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Didn't Jon note that Ghost was closer to him than any wife? Pure foreshadowing of the sacrifice to come, IMO. Also, it could be that Jon will not simply decide out of the blue to sacrifice him - Ghost might be mortally wounded by some enemy, and Jon will give him the gift of mercy with Longclaw. A quick stab to the heart that is as painful for Jon as its for Ghost... and when Jon withdraws Longclaw, the blade has turned the same red as in his dream.Awww shit, you could very well be right.I still worry the wolf will have to die for Jon to get his warged self back into his human body, but your scenario is plausible and allows for the wolf to die ( :crying: ) without Jon having to become an asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkloyalist Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Samwell is his Nissa Nissa. Only half joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Samwell is his Nissa Nissa. Only half joking.You shouldn't joke about that. ;) That's the type of thing that launches millions of slash fanfics in other fandoms. :D Does anyone have the quote from Jon about how Ghost is closer to him than any wife? If it's in ADWD I'm come across it eventually, but it would be nice to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Viper Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Since Jon is a Dayne, he will acquire Dawn (Lightbringer) as Sword of the Morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Aside from maybe Arya, Ghost is easily the biggest sacrifice Jon could potentially make. He was the deciding factor in Jon's decision to refuse Stannis's offer, when Jon saw him again near the end of A Storm of Swords and realized that he had the colors of the weirwood trees, and was probably sent to him from the Old Gods.Would Jon sacrifice a gift from the old gods to R'hllor? (Shite, I don't even like that god's name.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetSome Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The prophecy doesn't actually mention Nissa Nissa, it just says that AA will draw Lightbringer from a fire. Mel for one doesn't apparently think it's important: when Stannis creates his "lightbringer" he just puts a sword in a fire, he doesn't stab anyone in the heart.I think a scene where Jon stabs Arya or Ghost through the heart and pulls out a magic sword would be very un-GRRM, I definitely don't expect that to happen.Although here's an interesting Nissa Nissa idea, what if Dany is AA, and Nissa Nissa is whoever blows the dragon horn for her? (I don't know if I actually buy this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoren Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Reading the last Jon chapter with all the elements of AA re-born, I was thinking about the sacrifice he, as AA, would need to make. A lot of people have talked about maybe Arya being his Nissa Nissa. I have a mad theory that it could be Ghost. After all, who is Jon connected to, is closest to and loves more than Ghost? You can blast my theory but please be polite about it :PGhost IS Jon. Me thinks that Jon's Nissa Nissa is Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.