Arya's starting to scare me...

[Errant Bard]

I'm pretty sure the blindness is just going to be part of her training.

Also, I think it's great that she killed Dareon. Just goes to show she's a true Stark.

Meanwhile, Jon not killing Ygritte shows he's no true Stark, I guess.

[Dragon Punch]

Meanwhile, Jon not killing Ygritte shows he's no true Stark, I guess.

Yeah, he's a Snow. :D

no but seriously you are making some weird logically inconsistent comparisons. Since when was it the Starks duty to fight Wildlings at the wall? He did kill Wildlings but one of his brothers killed Ygritte so I'm not really sure what your point is.

[Errant Bard]

Since when was it the Starks duty to fight Wildlings at the wall?

Same day it was a Stark duty to murder people in back alleys.

[Diehard_si]

I've had a feeling all along that Arya and Nymeria will link up again. I can see her being some kind of pack leader assassin. She will go about bringing revenge for her family.

Of course because I expect it, it's bound not to happen.

[Dragon Punch]

Same day it was a Stark duty to murder people in back alleys.

Which is as long as there has been a Nights Watch, and deserters of the watch. Location of murder is irrelevant. I can see that I'm not going to convince you, and we are just going to go round in circles. So I shall decide to respectfully disagree and be done with it, unless you or someone else have some fresh insight. After all this is a thread about opinion, and even though I'm backing mine up with facts, there will always be dissention on this matter. Good day ser.

[Independent George]

Which is as long as there has been a Nights Watch, and deserters of the watch. Location of murder is irrelevant.

Location is very relevant. Legally, Ned would not have had the right to kill Dareon in the streets of Braavos, let alone Arya. The law ends at the ocean's edge.

Morally, Arya committed cold-blooded murder, from the perspective of both the Northerners and of the Faceless Men. This was petty vengeance for mocking her brother, not justice for the Night's Watch.

[Dragon Punch]

Location is very relevant. Legally, Ned would not have had the right to kill Dareon in the streets of Braavos, let alone Arya. The law ends at the ocean's edge.

I would agree if he just broke a law he was obliged to follow as a person living in westeros. But he took an oath of his own free will (granted it would have been with a sword at his back, but it wast his only option, not to mention that he was going to be allowed to travel westeros) with the penalty of breaking was clearly death. If we want to talk about the laws of braavos they don't seem to have any problems with people dueling to the death no matter how frivolous the reason or mismatched the opponents so that's out, and you are saying the laws of westeros have no bearig in braavos so that's out.

Obviously the faceless men disapprove of the killing because Arya was supposed to loose herself and become no one, but killing Dareon was a totally Arya Stark move. It would be impossible to say that the Northmen approve or disapprove of the killing since we have no information on how they do/or would feel about a similar situation (maybe we should ask Roose and Ramsay Bolton how they feel) I'm also pretty sure he wasn't the first person to slight one of her family members in front of her and they weren't killed for it.

[Lady Howell]

I worry everyday of Arya going pyscho. She's on the slippery slope of revenge.

My best advice for her to avoid slipping: don't seek fucking revenge. It's not healthy, seriously, and I doubt she'll ever be able to finish her list any way. Half the people on it are dead or going to be dead (most likely not by Arya's hand) soon.

Arya needs to learn a thing or two about the difference between revenge and justice, and find a new pack. And get the Hell away from the FM.

[Samsaptakas]

Arya Stark is a child killer. She killed stable boy in first book.

[Duncan the Lunk'n]

I am mostly alone in this, but i was talking to a friend about arya and we both thought she was growing similar to

reek

,

with the whole "who are you?" "No one", she has to learn her name(s)

[Razha]

I regret that some takeclearly pro-Arya stance in case of Dareon's murder. The fact that Arya is a beloved character and "Stark Rules" are also loved and also the fact that Dareon is not a very likable guy makes easy for some to dismiss the value of his life.

I would love if TV show could build Dareon/ Dareon substitute (Pyp?) as more likable character, so that gravity of Aria's action would be more obvious.

[silentwanderer]

I am mostly alone in this, but i was talking to a friend about arya and we both thought she was growing similar to

reek

,

with the whole "who are you?" "No one", she has to learn her name(s)

Arya has a secret weapon that Theon and Jayne Poole had not: half of her indentity rests firmly in Nymeria, so long as Arya is a warg she will never forget her own name.

ETA:

I regret that some takeclearly pro-Arya stance in case of Dareon's murder. The fact that Arya is a beloved character and "Stark Rules" are also loved and also the fact that Dareon is not a very likable guy makes easy for some to dismiss the value of his life.

To me, Dareon had no consequence because he was a deserter: anyone from Sam's father to Jon Snow would've executed him on the spot. More so the Warden of the North whether that is Bran, Arya or Rickon.

Sansa has no problems to kill Robin Arryn for the Vale, and the execution of a deserter is a far more noble task than to get rid of a potential heir to steal his holdfast IMO.

[Razha]

ETA:

To me, Dareon had no consequence because he was a deserter: anyone from Sam's father to Jon Snow would've executed him on the spot. More so the Warden of the North whether that is Bran, Arya or Rickon.

Sansa has no problems to kill Robin Arryn for the Vale, and the execution of a deserter is a far more noble task than to get rid of a potential heir to steal his holdfast IMO.

I suspect that GRRM who was registered as a concscientious objector during Vietnam war would have slightly different stance on what a "noble task" is.

[silentwanderer]

I suspect that GRRM who was registered as a concscientious objector during Vietnam war would have slightly different stance on what a "noble task" is.

And if the Night's Watch would fight during the Vietnam war perhaps I would agree, as it is the shield that guards the realms of men is only as strong as its weakest link, and Starks are meant to execute said link whenever it threatens the strenght of the whole chain.

[Lyanna Reed]

Hey! I'm new here, and this is my first response to any topic after an afternoon spent sifting through this forum.

Arya has always been my favorite character, because at the start of the series, I could identify with her the most- scrawny, scrappy, tomboy girl- the type of girl I've always been. Now, Arya is nothing less than lethal.

I cried when she went blind, be it temporary or not. The idea of her losing her identity and leaving behind all traces of her Westeros self kills me (especially because I had SUCH high hopes for her and Gendry. I would love to see them reunited, and maybe Hot Pie too, although that would kind of be third-wheel esque.)

I do, however, think Arya would be a badass assassin and the story would play out very nicely.

So, if Arya needs to lose her identity for her story to keep moving forward, well, I'm willing to deal with that sacrifice.

[Drunkard lord]

I personnaly dont like Arya. At first she was more or less normal character but now she turning into rabid dog/psichopatic type. She become small female version of the hound in some cases even more sinister.

[Hunter_Rose]

I think the people who are concerned for Arya's morality need to stop viewing Arya as a child. Granted she has sacrificed her adolescence and has been forced to grow up in leaps and bounds but I highly doubt that she's going to give a fig about the things she has lost because of her unusual baptism of fire. I mean if it's true that Arya is 12 at the end of AFFC then she is only a couple of years younger that Danerys herself; plus 13 seems to be when most women come into their majority in GRRM's Westeros and become eligible for marrige (technically girls are eligible for marrage once they hit menses).

I don't like this idea that a character should suddenly be written off because they choose to complete morally questionable acts. I mean all throughout A Song of Ice and Fire GRRM seems to be putting morality on its head by pointing out the atrocities sworn knights perform during war and having the high septon of the Westeros religion become a puppet pope for the Lannisters. I think it's highly missing the point to weep for Arya's lost morality. GRRM also constantly makes us re-think his characters. Jamie who was basically introduced as the shit who threw Bran from a tower wall, crippling him, has suddenly seemed to gain a conscience by the end of ASOS. The Hound who was at Jeoffery's beck and sadistical call slowly starts to show his decency as he progresses though ASOS, but it should be noted that Cerci still spirals deeper and deeper into her own hell of depravity. Even Jeoffry himself was fairly neutral throughout AGOT but really came into his sadistic ways in ACOK (plus this gave us the even greater whammy near the end of AGOT where no one expected that sweet innocent young Jeoffrey would ever think to put Ned's head to the block - I mean would you still think that way if you knew what you knew about him from ACOK?).

In addition IMHO it always seemed that Arya was recruited by Jaqen H'gar for the faceless society. She was only given the coin after she figured out how to beat Jaqen at his own game and turned around his oath so that it would implicate him thus forcing Jaqen to perform any of Arya's desires. Once Jaqen saw that keen intellect he knew that she had the ability to become a faceless one. I also like the possibility that was raised earlier in this thread that Jaquen could be Syrio. There may be more substance there than one realizes. Jaqen was being escorted to the wall in chains and it was explained he was taken from the dungeons beneath Rhegar's Holdfast. Syrio may have been captured and not killed and if he was captured his likely fate would have been to be thrown into the cells under King's Landing. Plus we know that Jaqen is capable of changing his face and it would explain why he tried so hard to reach out to Arry/Arya during their trip up to the wall.

[Annara Snow]

I know she only had 3 chapters....but the last one especially left me kinda reeling. I think she needs to go back to Westeros before she completely loses it.

IMO the whole Dareon thing really wasn't her call to make...

Starting? Arya's been scary for a while. She is a harrowing portrayal of a child soldier. She's been through so much, and has clung only to hatred, anger and a desire for revenge for so long, it's starting to eat away at her - especially now. when she has lost, in one way or other, everyone she has been close to.

I think the people who are concerned for Arya's morality need to stop viewing Arya as a child. Granted she has sacrificed her adolescence and has been forced to grow up in leaps and bounds but I highly doubt that she's going to give a fig about the things she has lost because of her unusual baptism of fire. I mean if it's true that Arya is 12 at the end of AFFC then she is only a couple of years younger that Danerys herself; plus 13 seems to be when most women come into their majority in GRRM's Westeros and become eligible for marrige (technically girls are eligible for marrage once they hit menses).

People don't need to stop seeing her as a child, because she is a child. The fact that it's OK in Westeros for a girl to be married at 12 if she's started menstruating - or, for that matter, the fact it's OK in Westeros to employ a boy of 12 to kill people for you if he's big enough (Arya started even earlier, due to circumstances) only shows what a fucked up world it is. 12-year olds were children then as much as they are now. Physical and emotional development did not happen earlier than it does now.

Also, the argument that it was considered normal in the Middle Ages, or that it's considered normal in Westeros, to have sex with 12-year olds is not true at all. It's clear in the series that 12-year olds are considered children; and that raping 12-year old brides is something decent people would not do. The fact that people like Tywin Lannister or the Boltons think it's OK means as much as the fact that they think bashing children's skulls is OK. Even Viserys didn't think it was normal of Drogo to be into girls as young as 13. Normally, boys and girls in Westeros are considered grown around 16, maybe 15. Sansa,12 and flowered, is called "child" by Tyrion and several other people. Dany was also a child - she was just forced to grow up quickly, and she's unusually mature for her age. Robb leading an army at 16 also isn't so common and only happened because his father's head was chopped off.

[silentwanderer]

I personnaly dont like Arya. At first she was more or less normal character but now she turning into rabid dog/psichopatic type.

Its easy to project a modern-day-sheltered childhood on Arya, but this is a little girl who watched her father's beheading at age 9, escaped among rapists/murderers, woke up to the sound of men abusing Pia every morning, only to find her mother's corpse after she heard the agonizing screams of her brother the night he was murdered.

Women like Arya grow up to be Brienne of Tarth or Asha Greyjoy, Princesses like her grow up to be Daenerys or Arianne Martell, and wildlings to be Osha or Ygritte. Their way of life is a rational choice because they don't have the luxury to be rabid dogs, they have to be methodic to survive.

Granted, most of these had a master at arms, a knight or former crow to train them before they had to fend for themselves, but The Lannister have been trying to kill Arya since her direwolf bit Cersei's son. She doesn't have the luxury to reject any training she can find.

[ShaggyCat]

I also think that she was 100% legit to gut the craven blackcoat. Arya is a highborn lady of House Stark, Wardens of the North. It is known across the lands what the punishment for abandoning the Watch is, her own lord father would have sliced this cravens head off using Ice. Eddard had told his sons that if they should have to take a life, they had better do it themselves.

After a bit of a break I've picked up AFFC again and just read this chapter.

While it's awful to read the POV of a young girl who has just committed her first murder (albeit not her first homicide*) because it's shocking, it is also totally appropriate. Arya doesn't know if any of her kin are still alive. As far as she knows, she is the last Stark. And for how many generations has it been the reaponsibility of the Starks, more so than any other House due to their proximity to the Wall as well as their role as prior Kings of the North, to execute deserters?

She did her duty as Arya of House Stark. Did she do her duty as Cat of the Canals? No.

Still creepy though. * I say her first murder as though she's killed before, those were all in the heat of battle, self defence, escaping imprisonment and slavery etc. this is the first time she has sized someone up, killed them and disposed of the body. That is pretty scary!

Edit; totally agree with AS up above. It is not normal childhood behaviour but only serves to demonstrate how fucked up Westeros is.