403 replies to this topic

[DirePenguin]

On a chapter that Eddard walks with Barristan talking about Robert's participating in melee tourney. 2 parts I don't understand.

Quote

“Hugh was Jon Arryn’s squire for four years,” Selmy went on. “The king knighted him before he rode north, in Jon’s memory. The lad wanted it desperately, yet I fear he was not ready.”

in Jon’s memory. Does that mean he rode off while remembering Jon? Or was he so sad he had to ride off?

Quote

Ser Barristan’s look was troubled. “They say night’s beauties fade at dawn, and the children of wine are oft disowned in the morning light.”

I don't understand the children of wine thing. What does it mean?

Thanks

[Datepalm]

In Jon's Memory means for Jon's sake.He knighted Hugh, even though he wasn't really ready, because he had been Jon's squire and so, in Jon's memory.

The children of wine I think is just stuff people do while drunk, and don't want to face up to when sober again.

[Chelisandre]

In Jon's memory means "as a memorial to Jon."

To put the second one in context, they were talking about things the King had said when he was drunk the night before. Other things that happen when people are drunk are sleeping with someone you would find unattractive had you been sober, and having a one-night-stand and conceiving a child from it. So to say that night's beauties fade at dawn is saying that you see the person as they really are the next morning. Children of wine would be the children conceived during these drunken trysts who, before the advent of DNA paternity testing, would have been disowned by their father.

What they are really saying is that most people would forget their drunken boasts from the night before, but not King Robert.

[DirePenguin]

Thanks Datepalm & Chelisandre.

I ran into another word. "Sin". What exactly is Sin in this book refering to? Not the same Sin as in Christianity right?

There's a few "Supple as sin" which I assume is literally saying something is very supple - very bendable? And when Arya was chasing the black cat. She quoted the city guard's comment about the cat as "Older than sin and twice as mean"

[Chelisandre]

I think they are referring to "sin," and they definitely are in the second one, as sin dates back to the Garden of Eden so it would be really old.

[ckal]

When using phrases like "supple as sin" or "old as sin" for example, it is typically just a reinforcement or extra emphasis on how "supple" or how "old" or whatever the describing word is.

So another example is instead of "supple as sin" you can think of it as meaning "extremely supple" or "old as sin" as "extremely old".

Hope this helps.

[DirePenguin]

When Catelyn decided to go to Kings Landing, she said we "shall see what we shall see". What does that mean?

[Lummel]

Reminds me of the song about the bear who went up the mountain to see what he could see.

Catelyn is saying that we will see what we can find out, she is going to make the attempt to find out what is going on.  Still confused?

[swarmsea]

Can I jump inside this topic, there's nothing to be considered as spoiler or anything like that, so DirePenquin, you're safe

But I was wondering, I red this in one of the last chapters for character "Catelyn" and even thought I feel fine with my knowledge of English, thought it's not my first language. This totally made my head hurt, how to understand this one:

Quote

"Olyvar Frey held his horse for him, Lord Walder’s son, two  years older than Robb, and ten years younger and more anxious."

What's his age again?...

Edited by swarmsea, 06 April 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Corvinus]

swarmsea, on 06 April 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Can I jump inside this topic, there's nothing to be considered as spoiler or anything like that, so DirePenquin, you're safe

But I was wondering, I red this in one of the last chapters for character "Catelyn" and even thought I feel fine with my knowledge of English, thought it's not my first language. This totally made my head hurt, how to understand this one:
What's his age again?...

Olyvar is older than Robb in terms of birth. But he is not as mature.

[DirePenguin]

Lummel, on 06 April 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Catelyn is saying that we will see what we can find out, she is going to make the attempt to find out what is going on.  Still confused?

So it's refering to what's going to happen in general right? Could mean both "she'll see what's going to happen next" or "she'll see what she'll be able to find out"?

Another question. What is "see you true" ?

Quote

Lord Commander Mormont cleared his throat. “Sometimes I fear Ser Alliser saw you true, Tyrion. You do mock us and our noble purpose here.”

[Lykos]

@ DirePenguin
Catelyn:  More this,"she'll see what she'll be able to find out",  but you´re right it also implies that they will find out about the general situation.

LC Mormont:  Sometimes I fear Ser Alliser was right about you (saw what you really are like), Tyrion.

[DirePenguin]

What does "to make of someone" mean?

Quote

Ned was not sure what to make of Renly, with all his friendly ways and easy smiles

[Lummel]

It means what to think about them, or decide what their character is, or what their nature is.

[DirePenguin]

About food. Rich usually means it's smell? What about "heavy on the tongue"? This was from the crossroad inn in Catelyn chapter.

Quote

The sweet cakes had been soaked with honey, rich and heavy on the tongue

[swarmsea]

DirePenguin, on 10 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

About food. Rich usually means it's smell? What about "heavy on the tongue"? This was from the crossroad inn in Catelyn chapter.

I want to take a guess, that it probably means, creamy, if it's about sweet cake, just as we say "fatty" about meat kind of meal. I'm thinking of that kind of "rich" taste here.

[DirePenguin]

what does "did me in" mean? This guy is saying how he lost all his coins betting on Jaime.

Quote

“Your cruel gods and the Knight of Flowers altogether did me in.”

[TMWNN]

DirePenguin, on 11 April 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

what does "did me in" mean? This guy is saying how he lost all his coins betting on Jaime.

"Did me in" = defeated/killed me.

Edited by TMWNN, 11 April 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[DirePenguin]

Thanks everyone. I'm understanding much, much better this time around.

Another question. What's the "welcome to her" mean?

Quote

Catelyn Stark was trapped against the stone face of the mountain with three men around her, one still mounted and the other two on foot. She had a dagger clutched awkwardly in her maimed hands, but her back was to the rock now and they had penned her on three sides. Let them have the bitch, Tyrion thought, and welcome to her, yet somehow he was moving.

[Lummel]

the three men attacking her were welcome to kill her = Tyrion thinks he would be happy for the three men to kill Catelyn.