405 replies to this topic

[Mindrot]

He is a great character, and I personally am a big fan because of his 'adventures' with Arya, but in almost every post were the Hound/Sansa love story is brought up, women swoon and pine for a character like the Hound in their life.  This guy was a mass murderer, with at least one child murder (Mycah, the butchers boy) under his belt.  Sure he was just "following orders", but at every turn (this is much more apparent in the HBO show) he shows that its not just because hes told to do it, he enjoys killing, more than anything else in the world.  Why is there so much love for this guy?

Are people just convinced that he is redeeming himself, or changing his ways when he is travelling with Arya?  I would counter this by saying that he only intended to ransom her because the BB stole all his winnings.  Ultimately he only lets her go because he is dying and too weak to really stop her.  He does not just kill her out of spite (points for him I guess?) but hes clearly not doing it to somehow save Arya out of guilt or anything.

[StannisBamfatheon]

Man I have been waiting for this thread.  The swooning for a man whose a murderer with a half a face is absurd.  I do like him though for his ability to kick ass.  That's always a good skillset to have in Westeros.

[ARYa_Nym]

I do think that his time with Arya gets downplayed. He did not "take care of her". He kidnapped her. When he kept calling her a bitch he wasn't trying to be nice. She didn't think that he wouldn't cut her tongue out. She wasn't sure that he would which isn't the same. He most certainly was not a father figure unless you mean that father that needs to get child protector services called.


He saved her but the only reason why she needed to be hit with an axe is because he put her in a dangerous position.

He couldn't ransom her to the Lannisters since he was a deserter and was most likely wanted by them too. He could have ransomed her to the Boltons though. She asked him to take her to Jon and he said no because he didn't give a fuck about her or her brother.


Which makes sense because one of Arya's other brothers Bran, he offered to kill his wolf and wished that he would hurry up and die.

I don't like any character who thinks/does/says bad things to or about Bran. That is the fastest way to get on my shit list.


EDIT: Not to mention he had too much drink before the fight with the Tickler. I was scared Arya was going to get killed because of him. Luckily he pulled it together.

Edited by ARYa_Nym, 28 June 2012 - 03:27 PM.

[Ice Turtle]

He is a killer, but so is Loras, Ygritte, Mance, Halfhand, Robert and so many other people.

[Elder Sister]

Because he's so freaking awesome.

[Rinso]

The Hound is a bad guy.

Then again, he is an awesome bad guy.

I tend to think that the swooning sometimes gets a bit out of control. To the point where a lot of fans think of him as this bad boy with a heart of gold. And he's not that.
But it's a normal reaction. People sympathize easier with characters they like and the Hound is very easy to like.

[Mulled Wino]

The Hound got cool once he finally grew a set and told that little ankle-biter Joffrey to stick it up his ass.

He treated Arya the way he needed to, you think Arya wouldnt have tried her hardest to kill anyone that didnt scare the bejesus out of her?

[Quentyn the Blazed]

Hes a badass, he was always one of my favorites...but not until aCoK..in aGoT I thought the Starks were the scions of righteousness and Sandor was a douchebag childkiller..boy did I learn my lesson

And also, the Hound does what the hound wants....unless Joffrey makes him do something (until that something involves a flaming river)

[Alric Stark]

The Hound is like Darth Vader....bear with me.
He is a bad guy and pretty evil, yet there is that streak of good still in there. He is beaten down, and had most of his ideals stripped but there is the occasional flicker of them alive in some of the coversations with Sansa and Arya. I think that flicker is what draws people to him hoping he will shed what he is and become the "Knight" he envisioned being before the Mountain held his face to the fire and began shattering his illusions,

[Winterfellian]

I agree with the OP completely! While I really enjoyed reading his travels with Arya I was never sold on his goodness and was absolutely thrilled when Arya left him to die on the side of the road because the whole scene had a cathartic feel to it.

As to Sansa, I never saw the whole romantic vibe unil I found this board and am still not sold on it. I suppose it's about perception because reading back to scenes many Sansan shippers found romantic I only saw a creepy, child murderer with pedofilic tendencies leering on a thirteen year old scared girl that had just lost her father. But then that's just me.

As a character I liked him a lot why I don't get is the emphasys to turn him into the beast from the fairytale story. It is as we were to romantize Bronn's (another bad interesting character) marriage to Lollys.

[Sand11751]

Almost everyone who holds a sword in Westeros has used it to kill someone else - "Knights are for killing" - so I don't see how Sandor is any different for killing an innocent boy.

Anyway, I find the most redeemable feature for Sandor is brute honesty in a world full of liars. Fucked up manners and behavior with everyone, but he knows who and what he is and more importantly what others are, and he makes no apologies for any of it.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Interesting character. Tells it like it is.

I find the Sansan movement baffling.

[Dearmad Mactíre]

I think he's deeper than just a psychopathic killer. I'll quote a line from Gladiator 'Sometimes I do what I want to do, othertimes I do what I have to.' This applies to him. Does he like killing? Yes! Does that make him a psychopath? Not really. He is the product of a hard life and he clearly has issues. Maybe he did what he did out of some form of duty. Its difficult to explain but there is more to this guy than simple brutality. He was with Arya for the gold, I'm sure, and why not. With money he could get away, is that wrong?

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Dearmad Mactíre, on 28 June 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

I think he's deeper than just a psychopathic killer. I'll quote a line from Gladiator 'Sometimes I do what I want to do, othertimes I do what I have to.' This applies to him. Does he like killing? Yes! Does that make him a psychopath? Not really. He is the product of a hard life and he clearly has issues. Maybe he did what he did out of some form of duty. Its difficult to explain but there is more to this guy than simple brutality. He was with Arya for the gold, I'm sure, and why not. With money he could get away, is that wrong?

Isn't he carrying a sack of gold that whole time though? The brotherhood take it from him. That's kind of what I like about him. We have no idea what makes him tick. He doesn't seem interested in power or honor, that's for sure.

Edited by Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik, 28 June 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[Sixshells]

On SanSan: I think the Hound is a subversion of at least two classical romance trope: the strong, protective knight (sort of), and the "damaged" guy that is "fixed" through the power of twu wuv. It's then easy to "forget" that his character is a creep, because even though he is very dangerous and unpredictable, he showed interest in not simply hurting the closest thing we have to a romantic female lead (I confess I must plead guilt of that during part of my first read). I think it's refreshing too that he is brutally honest about the whole noble knights thing to be a sham.

On his road trip with Arya: I think it shows character development, although it's too soon to tell if there is any "redemption" there. Before the Blackwater, his place in life was doing his Lannister protectors' bidding (and doing terrible things while doing so and enjoying having them terrible). Since then he is clearly a stray dog, and is in a transient position: what to do with himself, what employer/protector take, etc. It's a good occasion to show that even to someone as dangerous as himself, being isolated is a weakness. He is not being particularly kind to Arya or anything either, although he wanted to ransom her to people with whom he thought she would be in security, mainly, the Tullys. He did think about taking her to the Eyrie, not knowing about Lysa's madness, but the routes were not safe enough. I think that as far as he knows at that point, so is the way to the North (Moat Cailin being occupied by the Ironborn) so that's why he doesn't take her to Jon. Also, his hope IIRC was to use her either for money, or eventually to get an "in" in a household opposed to the Lannisters, but he probably doesn't care for joining the Watch and they are dirt poor, so why would he go all the way there even if he could? He probably realises better than Arya that the Wall is not exactly the place for a young girl, even if she knows to defend herself, between the harsh environment and the dregs of humanity populating it.
All in all I think the time spent with Arya is there to show us there is more to him than just the creepy psycho killer and guive depth to the character: we see him make plans, fail, his reaction to that, having trouble deciding what he wants to do next, etc. All this gives us further insight in him.

[Stormcatcher]

I have a thing for 'anti heroes', so I enjoy reading about Sandor (especially because he starts out as an outright villain), along with other seemingly unsympathetic characters like Bronn, Jaime, Jaqen, Varys, and Stannis. I even find Cersei and Littlefinger entertaining reads.

[Housefires]

It's easy to humanize the Hound and rationalize his hatred because we know about his torture at the hands of Gregor.

[The Fallen]

Sand11751, on 28 June 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Almost everyone who holds a sword in Westeros has used it to kill someone else - "Knights are for killing" - so I don't see how Sandor is any different for killing an innocent boy.

Anyway, I find the most redeemable feature for Sandor is brute honesty in a world full of liars. Fucked up manners and behavior with everyone, but he knows who and what he is and more importantly what others are, and he makes no apologies for any of it.

   I would say a lot of knights don't kill 'innocent' boys.

   But I agree with everything else. He is brutally honest, however, he is a brute. Not everyone who kills does so because they like it. Sandor loves it. I found it interesting that he spends time with both of Ned's daughters. But as far as the SanSan crowd, I don't get it. I don't think that Sandor necessarily wanted to get it on with Sansa. If that was the case he could've raped her the night he left King's Landing. On some level, he cared for her. It's why he advised her on how to act and react to Joffrey. All in all, he's definitely not a guy you would want your son to take after.

[Ser Publius Aelius Hadrian]

In the field of badassery, I always preferred Gregor Clegane. The Mountain that Rides is just a mighty fucking title.

Though The Hound is probably a more likeable character.

[Woman of War]

Why all the love?
Because the Hound does not have a POV.
We all can fantasize our personal private projections onto that character and he cannot object. There is interesting material - Byronic, conflicting character with a cruel childhood and evil deeds to redeem, a body like a maiden's fantasy and that badass scar, can carry us to the end of the world and is perfectly capable of organizing  it. Reeks testosterone. Troubled sexual longings, has never been truly loved (meaning this leaves room for our fantasies where we show him what true love means). Doesn't talk too much, meaning he doesn't talk too much nonsense. Does not come over as whiny and self pitying - again, no POV, no whining, no destructive depression, only alleged  misantrophy and fascinating mystery.
And alcohol abuse has the  certain romantic darkness of lost soul that appeals to our Mother Theresa syndrome: we are the chosen one who can save him, the one that really gets into his mind.
The "beauty and beast hero"  is far better than the "knightly hero" because the knightly hero must save the whole world, he is never totally ours because he must do good and be known for it. While the hero hidden in the beast is our little private secret, we have exclusive acces to his heroism.
No , in earnest, conflicting characters with a secret, the grey ones boarding to evil are the best, Ned Stark is simply not sexy, though he may have smelled better.
Ah, I like the Hound, don't get me wrong