GallowsKnight Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Started thinking about this due to the other thread about Ned telling Robert about Cersei's incestuous infidelity. It got suggested Jaime would demand Trial by combat to prove his and Cersei's innocence.As it would be hard to find someone who could easily beat Jaime, I wondered what if Robert's side would invoke Trial by the Seven?For those who haven't read Dunk and Egg, Trial by the Seven is what it sounds like. Seven combatants on each side to reflect the Seven faces of their god. The battle is over when either the Challenger or Challenged surrenders or is killed.I'm not sure about the time line but for the hypothetical sake of this discussion, the Mountain isn't an outlaw, Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr have not been sent after him. So all three can be used.Lets also say that Ned and Jaime haven't had their confrontation, so Ned is healthy and Jory still alive.So who would you have on each team?My own versionAccused:1. Jaime Lannister2. Ser Gregor Clegane3. Sandor Clegane - My only question is would he be willing to fight alongside his brother or would he turncloak4.5.6.7.Even though Mandon Moore (and the lesser Meryn Trant and Boros Blount) would likely fight for the Lannisters, I think he'd be barred due to being KG.I think the rest would be filled with family like Devan Lannister, or bannermen.Accusing1. Robert Baeretheon - There's no way anyone could talk him out of fighting.2. Eddard Stark - Ned's not going to let someone fight for him3. Barristan Selmy4. Garlan the Gallant - representing Tyrell interest in getting Margaery made queen5. Oberyn Martell - There to get vengeance for Elia.6. Brynden Tully - protecting his niece's husband and seeking justice for Jon Arryn's presumed killer7.That last spot could be filled with a Kingsguard, Thoros of Myr or any of the Stark or Baeretheon bannermen. Or even Areo Hotah to cement Dorne's revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterCrist Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 There's also the fact that some knights would probably travel far for the chance to just to be apart of the Trial by Seven such as the Laughing Storm in Dunk and Egg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loon Lord Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Maybe, Syrio. At this point he is alive and has agreed to enter Ned's service. Possibly Stannis, depending on how skilled a swordsman he is, we have no evidence on this point although we know he hates Lannisters. I have a feeling that any skilled swordsman would want to join Robert's cause just to prove themselves to Robert and gain his favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 The Kingsguard must fight for the Queen's honour, as Aemon the Dragonknight did-Barry, Jaime, Moore et al would be fighting for Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Accused:1. Jaime Lannister2. Ser Gregor Clegane3. Sandor Clegane - My only question is would he be willing to fight alongside his brother or would he turncloak (Sandor was close to Joffrey and he would be convinced to fight)4.Devan Lannister, he is cousin to Jaime and a good fighter5.Addam Marbrand, he is Jaime's best friend6.Harwyn Plumm, his House is sworn to the Lannisters and he is a lot like Robert7.Steffon Swyft, again his is sworn to House LannisterAccusing1. Robert Baeretheon - There's no way anyone could talk him out of fighting.2. Eddard Stark - Ned's not going to let someone fight for him3. Barristan Selmy4. Garlan the Gallant - representing Tyrell interest in getting Margaery made queen5. Oberyn Martell - There to get vengeance for Elia.6. Brynden Tully - protecting his niece's husband and seeking justice for Jon Arryn's presumed killer7. A KG member maybe? Or someone from Stormlands such as Balon Swann (just realised that his name souns like Bella Swan :stillsick: )The Kingsguard must fight for the Queen's honour, as Aemon the Dragonknight did-Barry, Jaime, Moore et al would be fighting for Cersei.You are right about the KG fighting for the Queen but I think that the KG are there for the King. Sometimes monarchs also sent KG to protect family members but the King is their priority. In that hypothetical scenario, Robert might as well annul his marriage to Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 You are right about the KG fighting for the Queen but I think that the KG are there for the King. Sometimes monarchs also sent KG to protect family members but the King is their priority. In that hypothetical scenario, Robert might as well annul his marriage to Cersei.In this instance however, the king is not in danger. If Cersei were to call for a trial of Seven, the KG would fight for her honour.It would be beyond foolish for Robert to make the accusations himself, so he would not be one of the two parties involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Maybe, Syrio.Tyrio is a swordswman, but the trial by seven is for jousters/knights. He wouldn't fare too well.In this instance however, the king is not in danger. If Cersei were to call for a trial of Seven, the KG would fight for her honour.The Kingsguard has to obey Robert. If he ordered them to remain neutral, they'd have to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Can Jaime as KG fight against the Kings interest? The KG protect the king first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Can Jaime as KG fight against the Kings interest? The KG protect the king first and foremost.I assume that Jaime would be dismissed as a traitor. It is a very complicated subject anyway and let's not forget that Varys would be also involved one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Can Jaime as KG fight against the Kings interest? The KG protect the king first and foremost.That's interesting, isn't it?Because the precedent is that someone outside the royal family was the opponent in both Dunk's Trial by Seven and the Dragonknight trial. Cersei would effectively need to be defended by the same entity that's accusing her of treason.So would she automatically lose because she's only allowed to be defended by a knight of the Kingsguard, but because she needs 7 defenders, it's actually impossible to compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Chiboda Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I would add in Loras in Neds side as well, for the Tyrell support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hmm even without Jaime, Tywin would be able to procure some of the best warriors i would thinkTeam Lannister1-Gregor2-Sandor3- Ser Amory Lorch4-Jaime[ assuming he could get in on it]5-Adam marbrand6 Shagga [ Tyrion would realize his house's future is on the line]7-Mandon MooreTeam baratheon1. Robert himself [i agree his ego would not stand sitting out]2. Eddard Stark- he brought the charges 3. Arys Oakheart4. Barristen Selmy5.Merryn Trant6. Loras Tyrell7. Oberyn Martell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hmm even without Jaime, Tywin would be able to procure some of the best warriors i would thinkTeam Lannister1-Gregor2-Sandor3- Ser Amory Lorch4-Jaime[ assuming he could get in on it]5-Adam marbrand6 Shagga [ Tyrion would realize his house's future is on the line]7-Mandon MooreTeam baratheon1. Robert himself [i agree his ego would not stand sitting out]2. Eddard Stark- he brought the charges 3. Arys Oakheart4. Barristen Selmy5.Merryn Trant6. Loras Tyrell7. Oberyn MartellSorry, I am not a native speaker and sometimes I can get misunderstood.I meant that Jaime could be dismissed from the KG but not from the trial. A KG member who had been secretly married and fathered children was gelded by the rest of the KG. Terrence Toyne had an affair with one of Aegon's mistresses and was dismembered while she was forced to watch. Those people were punished just because they were simply having affairs. I dread to think what would happen to Jaime Lannister who was sleeping with the Queen who was also his sister.In the best of cases, he is dismissed from the KG and fights against Robert.I like the inclusion of Arys in Robert's team.Anyone else think that Darkstar would like to join the fight? He seems desperate for fame and glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harald Hard-Ruler Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hey everybody, new to this board so this is my first post :)I think the Lannister side would be pretty stacked. A couple guys that haven't been mentioned yet are Strongboar Crakehall and Ser Ilyn Payne. Crakehall seems to be highly regarded by Jaime (who mentions him on the shortlist of those stronger than him) and certainly doesn't lack for bravery. A lot of you guys have been mentioning whether certain members of the kingsguard could fight for Cersei but I'm wondering if Payne's position as King's Justice would prevent him from entering on the Lannister side. He is clearly loyal to the Lannister side though and as the former commander of Tywin Lannister's guard and a man who "lives for killing" would definitly be a good choiceAccused:1. Jaime Lannister2. Ser Gregor Clegane3. Sandor Clegane4. Adam Marbrand5. Ser Ilyn Payne6. Ser Lyle Crakehall7. Daven LannisterAccusing:1. Robert Baratheon2. Ned Stark3. Renly Baratheon (seemed pretty close with his brother)4. Ser Loras Tyrell (not going to let Renly fight without him)5. Ser Barristan Selmy6. Thoros of Myr7. Oberyn Martell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beets Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I agree that Ilyn Payne is an awesome inclusion. I'm not sure if Renly would fight, though - while he doesn't seem like a crappy warrior, he's probably a little out of his league in this trial, and I think he'd be smart enough to sit it out. Loras, on the other hand, is an eager fighter and would probably fall all over himself trying to get a spot, just so he could say he'd been there the day they fought against the traitor Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olavtheking Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Do you think there would be a trial?I think Robert would try to kill Jamie and Cersei immediately (their father is not in KL to help them, who will stop Robert from doing so).Also you should include in your team setups who you think would win, just for funsies :fencing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Do you think there would be a trial?I think Robert would try to kill Jamie and Cersei immediately (their father is not in KL to help them, who will stop Robert from doing so).Also you should include in your team setups who you think would win, just for funsies :fencing:I think Jaime would have killed Robert, before he had the chance, then they would probably flee KL and a war very similar to the one that happened would have begun.As for the lists, I certainly think Lannister was a much stronger line-up. They had the best trained men and warriors, plus any who were iffy about their allegiance would have been handed a nice bag of gold by Tywin, and maybe another one at the end if they did well. That would be enough to quell their conscience, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah.jenice Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Wow, this was a great post!That battle would have been epic, and I love the lists everyone has put together. I like the inclusion of Loras Tyrell on Robert's side and Illyn Payne on the Lannister side.We've got to remember that Tywin is still alive, and in this scenario, he definitely would have stepped in and ensure the best fighters in the realm were representing Cersei/Jamie. I can see them getting a trial by combat/trial with 7 because there would be no way to prove the incest since they were never caught in the act. I know the children's hair color seems pretty solid, but Cersei could argue the kids took after her and a trial by combat would be the only way to prove the truth.I'm going with:Accused:1. Jaime Lannister2. Ser Gregor Clegane3. Sandor Clegane4. Adam Marbrand5. Ser Ilyn Payne6. Ser Lyle Crakehall7. Bronn (I like the idea of Tyrion helping out)Accusing:1. Robert Baratheon2. Ned Stark3. Ser Loras Tyrell4. Bryden Tully5. Ser Barristan Selmy6. Thoros of Myr/Balon Swann/Beric Dondarian (Swann and Dondarian are sworn to the Storms End so I could see one of them stepping up)7. Oberyn MartellI think it would be a good fight, but Robert's side would definitely need someone like Oberyn Martell who would be willing to fight dirty because you know the Lannister side would fight dirty. I hate to say it but I think the Lannister side might be victorious. Robert isn't as strong as he used to be and the Cleganes and Jamie Lannister are some pretty formidable opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beets Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I think it would be a good fight, but Robert's side would definitely need someone like Oberyn Martell who would be willing to fight dirty because you know the Lannister side would fight dirty. I hate to say it but I think the Lannister side might be victorious. Robert isn't as strong as he used to be and the Cleganes and Jamie Lannister are some pretty formidable opponents.The Cleganes would be rough to fight against, but I think they might be too busy trying to subtly murder each other to be as big of an obstacle than normal. Oberyn would be a huge asset, Robert would be a huge detriment, and I think Loras might actually play dirty just as much as Oberyn would. We've seen his mare-trick that he pulled on Gregor; I'm sure he'd have something up his sleeve, and if Olenna helped him put it there, it's sure to be a doozy.The Lannisters might still actually win, but I think it'd be pretty close and that it'd depend a lot on pure luck more than anything. The teams you've assembled rock :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvengerofWinterfell Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 In this instance however, the king is not in danger. If Cersei were to call for a trial of Seven, the KG would fight for her honour.It would be beyond foolish for Robert to make the accusations himself, so he would not be one of the two parties involved.not necessarily. Robert may not be in danger, but a Queen who commits adultery also commits treason if memory serves me correctly so her crimes would be against the very crown the KG serves. Not to mention Robert could simply choose to forbid it.Also if House Tyrell wants to be represented, Im pretty sure Garlan would be asked to fight before Loras, though he may refuse. Also, if time is being permitted for Knights/fighters to arrive from outside KL, then there's nothing to stop Ned from requesting GreatJon Umber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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