Why is Aegon fake?

[MyLittleDirewolf]

Besides the fact that he appeared out of nowhere, why do people think he's fake? Honestly, I don't know. I guess a baby switch could have been pulled off. He looks Targ, so who would he be if he's not Aegon? But then there's the WTF factor of oh, so now Aegon's alive? I am looking forward to a Targ-off if between him and Dany, if she ever gets to Westeros.

[Groat]

The house of the undying prophecy references a mummers dragon. Also, I think Aemon sees a mummers dragon while delirious. Another main point is the plan only works assuming Clegane would dash his head against a wall, something no one expected him to do.

[R'hllor's Bastard]

Because he throws contradiction in a ton of Jon Snow theories if he is real.

[Roxy]

^ yeah, things wouldn't go so smoothly for the R+L=J/King Jon theories if Aegon is real, survives until the end, and utilizes his legitimate claim to the throne. Therefore, he is fake.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Besides the fact that he appeared out of nowhere, why do people think he's fake? Honestly, I don't know. I guess a baby switch could have been pulled off. He looks Targ, so who would he be if he's not Aegon? But then there's the WTF factor of oh, so now Aegon's alive? I am looking forward to a Targ-off if between him and Dany, if she ever gets to Westeros.

my guess is most people can't deal with the shock of the twist

[Lux in Tenebris]

His introduction is halfhearted and too much of an afterthought for him to be the legitimate heir.

[the Scorpion Knight]

His introduction is halfhearted and too much of an afterthought for him to be the legitimate heir.

you know that varys says

... Elia and her babe

notice the singular

[Black Wolf Smith]

His introduction is halfhearted and too much of an afterthought for him to be the legitimate heir.

Yea its not like GRRM hinted about him from time to time, over the years.

I don't think it matters if YG is real. Only what Dany thinks about him matters. But then again I Jon is going the other way. Aegon being real wouldn't matter to him, or where he is headed.

[iusedtotoo]

Why does Aegon hurt Jon's claim. What claim can bastards make anyway, or am I missing something?

[Antonius Pius]

notice the singular

Then again, Rhaella/Rhaenys (?) was three or five or thereabouts, you wouldn't call her a baby.

[Antonius Pius]

Why does Aegon hurt Jon's claim. What claim can bastards make anyway, or am I missing something?

Legally, none. But Robert didn't have a claim either, and then all of a sudden he had powerful backers, and he became a legitimate claimant.

[Jordouche]

The house of the undying prophecy references a mummers dragon. Also, I think Aemon sees a mummers dragon while delirious. Another main point is the plan only works assuming Clegane would dash his head against a wall, something no one expected him to do.

The mummers dragon can quite easily mean Aegon is Varys', Varys is the mummer. Also, the whole point of the switch being viable is that Aegon is so young no one who survives would be able to tell the difference between the corpse of this baby and the real Aegon.

I don't necessarily think Aegon is fake, I'm not quite sure myself, a lot of people on here believe what they want to believe.

[Roxy]

you know that varys says

notice the singular

I posted that on tumblr a while back and I discovered it. I think it could be foreshadowing. Either that or a typo :lol:

Then again, Rhaella/Rhaenys (?) was three or five or thereabouts, you wouldn't call her a baby.

Young children are called babes or babies repeatedly in the books. Bran and Rickon are referred to as babes, especially Rickon even though he's four. Rhaenys is also referred to as a babe in the text, especially when mentioned alongside Aegon. Varys' possible slip up is the only occasion where the deaths of Elia and her children are not referred to in the plural, usually using the term "babes." For example:

"When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, 'I see no babes. Only dragonspawn.'"

- Eddard, AGOT

[hughie]

If Aegon is real, then GRRM is a bad writer who doesn't plan his plots meticulously. And he isn't a bad writer.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Why does Aegon hurt Jon's claim. What claim can bastards make anyway, or am I missing something?

Lots, read R + L = J thread. Most think that Jon is/will become King. It goes around in circles, so read any of the 30 something threads. The short answer is most don't think Jon isn't a bastard.

As a Heretic, I feel that Jon will chose to be Ice, not fire.

[The Mead King]

When i was reading the books i just assumed he was real and never questioned his legitimacy until I came to the forum. However after reading a few threads I think he is a blackfyre, not due to proof. Just because I think it would be awesome if he was

[Danelle]

Besides the fact that he appeared out of nowhere, why do people think he's fake? Honestly, I don't know. I guess a baby switch could have been pulled off. He looks Targ, so who would he be if he's not Aegon? But then there's the WTF factor of oh, so now Aegon's alive? I am looking forward to a Targ-off if between him and Dany, if she ever gets to Westeros.

Reasons why Aegon might be fake:

• The whole mummer's dragon thing
  
• Elia's brothers planned to avenge her and her children. Notice how they refer to Elia and her children not Elia and Rhaenys. They even planned with Ser Willem to marry Viserys to Arianne. If Varys wanted to protect Rhaegar and Elia's trueborn son why not tell his uncles? Oberyn was reckless but obedient and always agreed with Doran, who is clever and most of all patient. Doran could have easily helped Aegon one way or another. Not involving the Martells in a plan that wants one of theor own on the throne is suspicious.
  
• Jeyne Poole replaced Arya Stark, Craster's baby replaced Mance's. People can be easily fooled. Jon Con mentions that Aegon;s eye colour is not as deep as Rhaegar's. Tyrion reveals the secret behind the Young Griff only after he talks with Haldon.
  
• Illyrio is a strange man. He loves to eat and sleep with beautiful women. He would even make love with Dany. Yet he is geniounely sorry for the loss of Serra, a bedwarmer. He was so in love with her that he married her and offended the Prince of Pentos. Illyrio also seemed to care a lot about Young Griff, which leads to speculation that he is in fact his father.
  
• There are hints that Varys is a Blackfyre. Several references to black and red dragons. So far he has done nothing to protect Dany and Viserys. After Ser Willem died, Viserys, still a child, had to support himself and Dany. They were practically left alone. Why not help them as well?
  
• Aegon is supported by the GC, formed by descendants of Blackfyre supporters, people who have no reason to support Targaryens. Viserys once asked for their support but they laughed at him. Yet they broke their contract with Myr and joined Aegon. Illyrio said:
  

  Some contracts are written in ink, and some in blood. I say no more.

• 
  "Slayer of lies", again from the HotU. If Aegon is real, then he is just another claimant to the throne. If he is fake, he serves as a plot mechanism to finally force Dany to go to Westeros and prove that she is the rightful heir.
  

[Antonius Pius]

I posted that on tumblr a while back and I discovered it. I think it could be foreshadowing. Either that or a typo :lol:

Young children are called babes or babies repeatedly in the books. Bran and Rickon are referred to as babes, especially Rickon even though he's four. Rhaenys is also referred to as a babe in the text, especially when mentioned alongside Aegon. Varys' possible slip up is the only occasion where the deaths of Elia and her children are not referred to in the plural, usually using the term "babes." For example:

"When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, 'I see no babes. Only dragonspawn.'"

- Eddard, AGOT

Guess it's only me then. ;)

[danm_999]

In addition to all the great reasons Danelle provided above, there's an odd little story told to Brienne in A Feast for Crows that foreshadows Aegon's arrival:

He forged a new sign for the yard, a three-headed dragon of black iron that he hung from a wooden post. The beast was so big it had to be made in a dozen pieces, joined with rope and wire. When the wind blew it would clank and clatter, so the inn became known far and wide as the Clanking Dragon."

"Is the dragon sign still there?" asked Podrick.

"No," said Septon Meribald. "When the smith's son was an old man, a bastard son of the fourth Aegon rose up in rebellion against his trueborn brother and took for his sigil a black dragon. These lands belonged to Lord Darry then, and his lordship was fiercely loyal to the king. The sign of the black iron dragon made him wroth, so he cut down the post, hacked the sign to pieces, and cast them into the river. One of the dragon's heads washed up on the Quiet Isle many years later, though by that time it was red with rust.

Basically, a dragon being destroyed, but then a dragon of another colour emerging to take it's place.

[Lummel]

Besides the fact that he appeared out of nowhere, why do people think he's fake? Honestly, I don't know. I guess a baby switch could have been pulled off. He looks Targ, so who would he be if he's not Aegon? But then there's the WTF factor of oh, so now Aegon's alive? I am looking forward to a Targ-off if between him and Dany, if she ever gets to Westeros.

Wow this topic again - must be that time of the month! Just to elaborate on what Danelle said above the reasons why Aegon can be considered a fake can be grouped into the following broad catagories.

Prophectic reasons

• Daenerys' vision in the house of the undying "A cloth dragon swayed on poles admidst a cheering crowd" Daenerys IV ACOK "'A mummer's dragon you said. What is a mummer's dragon, pray?' 'A cloth dragon on poles,' Dany explained. 'Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight.'" Daenerys V ACOK
  
• Moquorro's vision "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark" p436 ADWD hardback
  
• Quaithe's warning "Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffen, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal." pp152-3 ADWD hardback
  

Trust reasons

• Do you believe Varys' speak to Kevan, or believe that it is literally true, or assume that the Aegon he mentions is the son of Rhaegar
  
• Do you believe the Pisswater Bend story
  
• Is Connington's involvement a reasonable sign that the story is true
  

Congruency of plot and motivation reasons

The treatment of Daenerys and Viserys doesn't support the view that Illyrio and Varys are Targaryen supporters

Historical parallels

GRRM is inspired by the Wars of the Roses and we haven't had a Perkin Warbeck or Lambert Simnel figure in the story so far

Other foreshadowing and parallels

• The rusty dragon on the Quiet Isle
  
• The development of the Blackfyre story in Dunk and Egg coupled with the involvement of the Golden Company in the Aegon storyline