Mental and Physical Health

[karaddin]

Oh that reminds me of a TED talk I saw on using Deep brain stimulation to treat depression that isn't alleviated through other methods, I'll try dig up the link once I'm back at work. One of my parents good friends has had it as one of the trial patients and it's turned her life around.

They are currently in clinical trials for using it to try treat alzheimers and initial signs are positive there too.

ETA: OK

. Summary of it is that they have found different conditions correlating to problematic brain activity in certain regions of the brain (either underactive or overactive), and have found that implanting electrodes to stimulate that part of the brain can correct the condition. It started with Parkinsons, then another childhood motor disease before they thought of applying it to mental conditions like depression and alzheimers.

[Guest Raidne]

Is brain stimulation via electrodes thought to be a potential replacement for medication/chemical enhancement and/or replacement generally? What are the benefits? Less side effects? Expected drawbacks?

[Aemon Stark]

Is brain stimulation via electrodes thought to be a potential replacement for medication/chemical enhancement and/or replacement generally? What are the benefits? Less side effects? Expected drawbacks?

That's basically what ECT is. The main indication for ECT is actually refractory depression, even for maintenance treatment. The main side effect is transient memory loss, so there is an element of a trade off to consider, but it's pretty safe. Unfortunately it's still stigmatized as "electro-shock" treatment, even though it's always done under anesthesia. You might see a patient's mouth twitch for 30 seconds but that's about as dramatic as it gets.

[karaddin]

I don't know that you get to answers to all that from the video (it was a few weeks ago that I watched it), however it seemed due to the invasiveness of it (implanting electrodes into the brain is pretty invasive, even if when done by these guys apparently pretty safe) that it's kind of a last resort thing for depression when the other treatment methods are ineffective. Benefit in that case being resolving the depression where nothing else has worked. I don't believe I've seen any significant side effects listed. It also takes effect immediately, there are clips for both the motor issues of the patient having an attack before the electrode is turned on, and the attack stops instantly. I believe the experience is quite similar with depression, although I haven't spoken to that family friend about it.

For treating those other conditions theres also the benefit that nothing else is effective/anywhere near as effective.

I think regarding alzheimers they aren't able to see the instant results they do with the other ones though, memories that have failed to form so far are still lost - however after a bit the theory is that the brain should go back to normal. They have seen that the sucrose use of the brain in certain regions drops/almost stops entirely in patients with alzheimers and the results they have so far show recover of sucrose consumption in these portions of the brain in the trial patients.

ETA - Aemon - ECT isn't a permanent implant attached to a pacemaker that the patient will have the rest of their life is it? That's 2 different treatments, just operating in a similar way?

[Aemon Stark]

Deep brain stimulation is definitely in the experimental stage insofar as treatment for dementia or depression goes. Not really familiar with the literature on either. However, dementia is progressive impairment of global cognitive function, and the Alzheimer's type is related to pathologic changes throughout the brain. I'm not sure how an electrical stimulator would necessarily help, and the morbidity might be unacceptably high since you will be dealing with a frail population. Have to read about it.

ECT is "electroconvulsive therapy" and involves periodic treatments. Nothing permanent about it. Patients go to an OR or special procedure room, receive anesthesia, get the treatment, and wake up. It lasts all of 5-10 minutes from the time they're in the room to the time they're heading out the door.

[karaddin]

Approximately what I though, although much faster. Thanks for the clarification!

With regards to the alzheimer treatment, I'm not sure if they were approaching the lack of sucrose consumption as the cause, or just an indicator of the changes and whether the stimulation was attempting to rectify this or...as an indicator of the change. That was a little repetitive. This is all currently way over my head, so I'm just doing my best to relay it :P all I can definitively say is that they were stimulating specific sections of the brain.

[Sci-2]

Saw this linked on my facebook this morning and thought of you and your thread Sci

Does prozac help artists be creative

Thanks for this Karaddin! I do worry about this idea of associating artistic skill with mental illness, I feel like we had a discussion about this awhile back when Nuke was still around? That this idea of putting mental illness on a pedestal was dangerous.

=-=-=

http://www.xminds.org/content.asp?pl=5&contentid=5

Students on the autism spectrum have great potential to pursue higher education and meaningful work. But they also have unique social, emotional, behavioral and cognitive needs that must be addressed for them to engage in the curriculum, be accepted by their school communities, and have positive educational outcomes. Partnership for Extraordinary Minds (xMinds) is dedicated to addressing the educational needs of these students. Generally, these students have been diagnosed with high-functioning autism, PDD-NOS, Asperger's Syndrome, or nonverbal learning disorder, although some students remain undiagnosed or are identified with an educational disability other than autism, such as ADHD or Speech and Language Impairment.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Raids- my son has ADD and eliminating processed foods, wheat gluten and excess sugar were better than the doctor.

[Sci-2]

http://lollipopkidsfoundation.org/

The Lollipop Kids Foundation exists to combat social stigmas, ease the financial burden placed on these families, offer emotional support and provide a brief respite so that every child with a disability has access to a hope and a future.

Together we can give each child a hope and a future.

[Sci-2]

http://ldnavigator.ncld.org/

Now, NCLD has a new resource—the LD Navigator, developed by the field’s leading experts—that provides online, comprehensive and up-to-date information and resources that enable pediatric professionals and parents to navigate a child’s learning disability together.

Developed in partnership with the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) and the National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practitioners (NAPNAP), the LD Navigator enables pediatric healthcare professionals and parents to navigate a child’s learning difficulty or disability. By delivering expert, evidence-based tools and strategies into the hands of those on the front lines of diagnosis and family support, the LD Navigator brings ready resources to busy pediatricians and pediatric nurse practitioners.

[Guest Raidne]

Raids- my son has ADD and eliminating processed foods, wheat gluten and excess sugar were better than the doctor.

Glad that works for him. I would be hesitant to put a child on stimulants also, though I do wish I could do college over with them.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Glad that works for him. I would be hesitant to put a child on stimulants also, though I do wish I could do college over with them.

He does take a small dose of meds for it, but not a stimulant. He takes guanfacine. I don't think it is very helpful for adults, though.

I had to stop eating "inflammatory" foods, doctor's orders, and 2 things I noticed other than reduction in physical symptoms, were that I had less spaciness and my migraines were cut in half. I started taking extra magnesium as well though, so I can't say for sure if one helped more than the other as far as the migraines went. But, a migraine would have me completely useless for 1-2 days, so I will continue to do/take both, just in case.

[Guest Raidne]

If you're confident in the diagnosis, pushing Omega 3 fatty acids makes a huge difference, and is recommended for health reasons for adults anyway - I'd definitely look into that for children as I have not. For me, a neuroinhibitor supplement (I take taurine) significantly turns down the "background static" as well.

I think I do feel better if I avoid wheat also, but I can't say for sure. ADD people in general are thought to be well-suited to high-protein, low carb diets, and I always used to cut wheat during the two weeks of exams at the end of the semester in law school, so I guess I at least bought it that much, yeah? I'm not convinced that dairy is really good a thing for me either. I actually get a buzz from eating raw tuna - it feels fantastic, like being at the top of my game. Take from that what you will. It's probably a really good reminder for everyone to fully investigate non-prescription options to make sure you're taking the lowest dose of any script necessary, yeah? Thanks for the reminder - it's one I could probably use regularly.

[Balefont]

My daughter has been officially diagnosed with Asperger's, Anxiety, and ADD. The husband is going to be formally evaluation for ADD. I knew about the Asperger's and Anxiety for my daughter but didn't think of ADD until I started reading more about it. There are quite a few overlaps with Asperger's.

Anyway, I want to thank you, Raids, because it was the last mental health thread that I read your descriptions about ADD and starting seriously considering the SO had it so I bought Driven to Distraction and Delivered from Distraction. The SO hit every checkmark for the proposed diagnostic symptons for adult ADD. This discovery several months back has had a profound impact on him and both our ability to see him (and his challenges) in a different light.

I have a list of "suggestions" from the evaluation for my daughter that I'm trying to complete. She is going to start meds Friday; she is almost 16 and has been on an IEP since first grade. Believe me when I say we've tried everything else but we're at a crisis point at school and she is suffering mentally and academically. I then have to get her set up with an OT and a therapist for her and my husband so they can work out all the issues that have built up between them. I'm hoping for some relief because I've been playing the role of mediator, psychologist, therapist, organisation specialist, and pre-frontal cortex for both of them for sooooooo loooooong. I need a vacation!

[Guest Raidne]

That is great to hear! I've come across another fantastic book titled the Adult ADD Factbook. It is really, really great and has recently done wonders for my understanding of ADD.

And here is an article (that I may have already posted?) on the shared heritability of ADD and ASD. It's pretty technical, so maybe someone will interpret the results for us. My read is that the evidence supporting shared heritability of ADD and ASD is pretty compelling. From the summary:

Family based studies in clinical ADHD samples indicate that ASD symptoms are familial within ADHD families, and possibly related to similar familial origins as the ADHD symptoms. Twin studies suggest that 50-72% of the phenotypic variance may be attributable to shared additive genetic factors.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

If you're confident in the diagnosis, pushing Omega 3 fatty acids makes a huge difference, and is recommended for health reasons for adults anyway - I'd definitely look into that for children as I have not. For me, a neuroinhibitor supplement (I take taurine) significantly turns down the "background static" as well.

<snip>

Yeah! He takes Omega's every day. I get the Omega red's because they are smaller for him to swallow. As far as the gluten goes, try it for one month. I don't know if I said it before, but I felt sick when I quit eating it, like I had the flu. Then, so much better. I don't stick with it all the time, but when I do eat it, I can tell a difference. BUT, here's the kicker...if you switch it out for other "carbs" that have high glycemic levels, you may still not do well with the ups and downs of the the blood sugar stuff if you have something like ADD. I read in one of my books that 2 slices of wheat bread have a higher glycemic index as a Snickers. Crazy. I just got the Wheat Belly cookbook, which is not just gluten free, but lower glycemic as well. It calls for xylitol as a sweetener but that is so processed...I think I may figure out a way to use the organic maple syrup sugar, (lower g.i. than sugar, takes less to sweeten), or stevia that I am growing. It's basically avoiding rice flours, tapioca and potato flours.

Also- that fact you posted, about the inherited link...my boyfriend comments a million times a month about how my son and I have the same issues. I am often distracted but blame it on being a single Mom, and have anxiety over simple things like driving or the house needing to be clean before I study, cook, go to bed, etc. My son has extreme anxiety over math. He takes a low dose of an anti-anxiety at night, so he will sleep, (he stays up scared of every noise. It was like having a newborn for yeeeaaarrrssss). You can physically see it, because he ends up tilting his head back and rolls his eyes, it looks like a seizure. Proud to say he finished 4th grade with a C in math. That was a HUGE accomplishment.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

I have a list of "suggestions" from the evaluation for my daughter that I'm trying to complete. She is going to start meds Friday; she is almost 16 and has been on an IEP since first grade. Believe me when I say we've tried everything else but we're at a crisis point at school and she is suffering mentally and academically. I then have to get her set up with an OT and a therapist for her and my husband so they can work out all the issues that have built up between them. I'm hoping for some relief because I've been playing the role of mediator, psychologist, therapist, organisation specialist, and pre-frontal cortex for both of them for sooooooo loooooong. I need a vacation!

Better late than never! What was the iep your daughter had, for? I got very lucky with my son. When he was very young, he wasn't talking, at all. It turned out that he needed tubes, and the ENT said it was like he had been hearing things the way a person under water would hear things. At his 2 week check-up, he still wasn't saying much, and the ENT suggested taking him to be evaluated, because even at just a 2 week check-up, kids with no other issues preventing speech, would have many more words. They diagnosed him with Sensory Processing Disorder. It was like he had physical pain when he would see lights, shadows, shiny floors, etc. He started O.T at 2, then went to a Spec Ed preschool. When he started Kindergarten, he only had an IEP for speech. By 2nd grade, as soon as Math picked up a bit and kids got a little rowdier, his teacher noticed he needed more. It took forever to get into a specialist. He was suspended from 3rd grade multiple times. A 7 page diagnosis, vitamin supplements, couple low dose meds and diet change later, the improvement is notable. His IEP was changed and now they can no longer send him home, he tests with exceptions, (in a room alone, he has a longer period of time and can walk around to figure out problems. It is hard for him to work out some things without movement). They also give him made up weight bearing activities before Math, Art or Music. He carries a pile of books, just heavy enough, to another teacher, then picks them back up later. Your daughter and husband might benefit from something like this, weight lifting. Running around has little effect on my son. Swimming, weights...anything with tension, they have a noticeable effect on how he sits and works on his school activities or behaves at home.

[Guest Raidne]

She is going to start meds Friday; she is almost 16 and has been on an IEP since first grade. Believe me when I say we've tried everything else but we're at a crisis point at school and she is suffering mentally and academically. I then have to get her set up with an OT and a therapist for her and my husband so they can work out all the issues that have built up between them. I'm hoping for some relief because I've been playing the role of mediator, psychologist, therapist, organisation specialist, and pre-frontal cortex for both of them for sooooooo loooooong. I need a vacation!

Don't want to unnecessarily pry, but can I ask what meds are suggested? The good thing about the stimulants, IMO (totally unprofessional opinion) is that they should either "work" or not, and they work right away, like in 20 minutes to an hour, and it's definitely not a subtle effect. But if you're not dopamine deficient, then they wouldn't, and you're going to have one cracked out kid on your hands until they wear off (no advisement against doing this there - doctors would know whether there are risks of any long-term effects of mis-medicating with stimulants, and I wouldn't think so, but observation for the first day would probably be a great idea if the thought is to try stimulants. Can't speak to ASD, but anxiety is very common for people with ADD, mostly (IMO) because anyone would be anxious from dealing with the real-life effects of ADD. I have a bill payment system that looks like it's designed by the most anal retentive person on the planet because that's what it takes for me to not screw up my credit history.

Also, what is an IEP?

[Ferrum Aeternum]

The Lethality of Loneliness: We now know how it can ravage our body and brain

Just got around to reading this and found it very enlightening. And scary.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Also, what is an IEP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Program basically, it makes the school provide extra help and exceptions for your kid, without just suspending them or giving them detention for behavior. Interventions are put into place. A kid with an IEP means the parents also have, at least where I live, free access to a...damnit, drawing a blank...a person who can help represent you or go after the school, not a lawyer though.

The med my son takes for his ADD, Guanfacine, as I mentioned above, is actually an old high blood pressure medicine. They have reformulated it and sell it under different names for ADD, at a MUCH higher price now. Think Strattera. The Guanfancine is only $4. The Strattera was $200 a month, (I only have generic coverage). I know a lady whose son was on Strattera, because she wanted to avoid the stimulants, and he was great on it. When he turned 18 he decided he didn't need it, and ended up having a very hard time.

Is there any issue giving a stimulant to someone who is already anxious? My son has to avoid caffeine, I wonder what a stimulant ADD med woud do. Anyone have experience? It seems counterproductive.