DaarioKnowsBest Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Except for the Emo whining about Lyanna...emo whining about not getting Storms End and how much everybody loves Bobby B cancels that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Stannis does his fair amount of whining though...particularly about people not liking him, and being given Dragonstone instead of Storm's End.Well still, Stannis actually got things done while Bobby sat on the Iron Throne and let the Lannisters take over the realm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Robert's Warhammer Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Oh I agree, but I'm not sure if assassination counts as a legitimate military manoeuvre. For the record, war time assassinations are fine by me.Can argue that removing Renly saved a lot of lives I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I side with Stannis here. People would call him a kinslayer if they knew the truth just like they called Bloodraven and Maekor kinslayers, but Renly was clearly in the wrong. People say that Stannis does not bend, but he bent very far for Renly. Offered to let him retain all his titles and make him his heir. The use of most likely dark magic is the only sticking point. Stannis offered Renly what Renly already had. Not much of a deal, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Stannis offered Renly what Renly already had. Not much of a deal, I'd say.The fact that Stannis specified that Renly would be his heir implied that he at the time wasn't. Shireen must have been Stannis' heir. So Renly would have jumped up by one in the line of succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaarioKnowsBest Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 The fact that Stannis specified that Renly would be his heir implied that he at the time wasn't. Shireen must have been Stannis' heir. So Renly would have jumped up by one in the line of succession.seems Captain Justice is willing to bend the law after all the by the book talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 seems Captain Justice is willing to bend the law after all the by the book talkIt is perfectly within a lords right to change who his heirs are. It doesn't bend any law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 seems Captain Justice is willing to bend the law after all the by the book talkHe was also willing to take away the Night Watch castles by force. and burn Edric (which I'm guessing is illegal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaarioKnowsBest Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 It is perfectly within a lords right to change who his heirs are. It doesn't bend any law.supposedly.he is a king at that point, so line of succession can be changed at the whim of a king, kinda renders Stannis own claim impotent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealbando Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 It is perfectly within a lords right to change who his heirs are. It doesn't bend any law.I don`t think that they can. Randyl Tarly had to make Sam join the Wall to make Dickon his heir. If he could have just announced that he`s naming Dickon as his heir why didn`t he just do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 It is perfectly within a lords right to change who his heirs are. It doesn't bend any law.If that's true, why did Randyll send Sam to the Wall instead of just proclaim his brother the heir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Stannis offered Renly what Renly already had. Not much of a deal, I'd say.He also offered to make Renly his heir, which is not something that Renly had. Renly had just betrayed him and would be lucky to keep his head. In a lot of cases Renly would be stripped off his titles, be exiled or spend the rest of his life under House arrest.It is perfectly within a lords right to change who his heirs are. It doesn't bend any law.It does even now Lords can not make anyone they want as their heir. They have to pass on the title and lands as outlined by the peerage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 If that's true, why did Randyll send Sam to the Wall instead of just proclaim his brother the heir?I'm guessing because people would likely question Randyll, and it would be embarrassing for him to say that his first son was a wimp.Maybe I should have specified that I think Kings can specifically choose heirs. Robb chose Jon over Sansa, so Stannis could choose Renly over Shireen.It does even now Lords can not make anyone they want as their heir. They have to pass on the title and lands as outlined by the peerage.Earth is not Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Dev Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Renly was a thief stealing what was rightfuly stannis. The minute stannis declared himself renly should have bent the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mankytoes Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 If that's true, why did Randyll send Sam to the Wall instead of just proclaim his brother the heir?A lord can't do that, but a king can do literally anything he wants, that's his right.Surely kinslaying doesn't really count if you're in open war? Like Joff was saying he'd kill Stannis, no one seemed to care. There is no right answer though, it's debatable in universe. Like Karstark calling Robb a kinslayer for executing him, so weak imo. Presumably the Starks also have married with the Umbers, Glovers, even Boltons. By that logic, Robb couldn't kill any noble Northman. And the kin ties will be even stronger in the south, probably most nobles are a bit Lannister. And the biggest example would be Robert killing Rhaegar- related by both Orys and Aegon's parents, and by Roberts's great grandmother. I think kinslaying only really counts direct family, probably not even cousins. Which isn't relevant to the question, just demonstrating the subjectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Laws Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Funny how some people treat Donal Noye's opinion of Renly as truth even though his views on Robert and Stannis have been proven less than accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 It is time...the Stannermen must be assembled!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Earth is not Westeros.No, but it is based on the medieval period. In Westeros as we see Tarly has no way of disinheriting Sam without forcing him to be a Maester or take the black. So I think it is equally as hard there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Funny how some people treat Donal Noye's opinion of Renly as truth even though his views on Robert and Stannis have been proven less than accurate.It's not just Noye's opinion though. Olenna, Tywin and Maester Cressen hold similar views on Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eating My Wings Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I'm guessing because people would likely question Randyll, and it would be embarrassing for him to say that his first son was a wimp.Yup. If his son can't live as a warrior he shall die as one. Be it during the hunt or at the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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