Why was Rhaegar revered?

[Thaune]

We see numerous people speaking of him very highly, Barristan, JonCon (though apparently he was in love with him), etc.

By all accounts, he was a very romantic character, well-read and intelligent and also fierce in combat.

He might have been a great king... EXCEPT:

He either kidnapped or eloped with a daughter of an ancient house (Stark) despite being an heir to the throne, married to a Dornish princess,

father to their children.

His actions (and he acted like a raging teenager there IMO) effectively killed any chance of the rebellion not turning into a war.

It doomed his children and his wife.

If anything, his action are the most selfish and irresponsible of anyone in the whole series....

Or am I missing something here?

[Wanderer]

Well if his worst deed was to love too much, then it is still easy to like the guy. That is the impression I get at least. From what I've read, it also seems that Lyanna was far to clever and willful to be seduced by some crazy monster. That being said we have no absolute proof one way or the other.

[Ygrain]

We see numerous people speaking of him very highly, Barristan, JonCon (though apparently he was in love with him), etc.

By all accounts, he was a very romantic character, well-read and intelligent and also fierce in combat.

He might have been a great king... EXCEPT:

He either kidnapped or eloped with a daughter of an ancient house (Stark) despite being an heir to the throne, married to a Dornish princess,

father to their children.

His actions (and he acted like a raging teenager there IMO) effectively killed any chance of the rebellion not turning into a war.

It doomed his children and his wife.

If anything, his action are the most selfish and irresponsible of anyone in the whole series....

Or am I missing something here?

Well, yes, you are - rebellion and fighting are inseparable, and there was no fighting until after Jon Arryn rejected Aerys' order to deliver the heads of Ned and Robert.

Also, it's not like Rhaegar had a way of knowing that his action will start a snowball rolling that would eventually lead to the fall of his dynasty and the death of his wife and children.

[Minsc]

Because, he died while he was still young and romantic crap like that.

[Thaune]

Also, it's not like Rhaegar had a way of knowing that his action will start a snowball rolling that would eventually lead to the fall of his dynasty and the death of his wife and children.

Really?

He eloped or kidnapped (Starks thought kidnapped, so did Robert) a daughter or a famous House, strongest in the North.

He betrayed both his wife and his children, and basically the whole Dorne.

He was a married heir to the throne going away with another woman (again, or kidnapping her).

He couldn't know it would cause damage?

I mean, it didn't take a scientist to realize that only really bad things could happen there.

I mean, people dump on a 15/16 year old Robb for marrying Jeyne, but everyone always talks of Rhaeger as this perfect prince,

when he did something much worse at a more mature age.

[JeepCSC]

He set in motion a chain reaction that plunged his country into turmoil for a generation because he had a prophecy to fulfill. You could say he didn't know what would happen, but eloping with the daughter of a powerful family without explanation is disaster waiting to happen. He may not have known the form of the disaster, but he wasn't (or shouldn't have been) ignorant of the consequences to his actions. You can't disappear with the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell without calling out the armies. Ask Bael. There were also much time for which that is unaccounted for from Rhaegar. Lord Rickard presumably had to travel for weeks to get from Winterfell to King's Landing. What was Rhaegar doing? Not paying attention to his ravens I suppose, you know explaining to his father and Brandon that it was all a misunderstanding or whatever. The guy is certifiable.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

Aerys set the bar unbelievably low, I guess.

[Sansa_Stark]

Lets not forget looking pretty gives you 10000 bonus points in Westeros. Even Renly got popular because he was handsome. Rhaegar was handsome enough that all forgot he was an incompetent at the end of the day.

[JeepCSC]

Aerys set the bar unbelievably low, I guess.

I do think that has something to do with it. For Targ supporters, Rhaegar was the good one to follow the bad one, but he never got the chance. Doesn't matter that he didn't get the chance because he did one of the stupidest actions imaginable. Somewhere Ned is shaking his head in disbelief, saying "and they thought I was dumb".

[JeepCSC]

That said, I am half-expecting GRRM to write some backstory to the elopement to make it all kosher (Brandon abusing Lyanna or something). Can't make Rhaegar truly look this bad.

[Dragonstar]

Yeah there's truly little textual evidence to support any deeper reason as to why Rhaegar was so well loved. He was a bookworm turned warrior, who was driven by a need to fulfill some prophecy in a way that had pretty catastrophic outcomes.

However I'm a Stark loyalist and I believe Lyanna saw something in him beyond his looks, and went with him willingly, though foolishly.

More to come on his character I'm sure. It's just right now the only POVs (JonCon & Barristan) who have deep first hand knowledge of him are busy shepherding young brash dragons. And said young dragons are not great listeners. So well only hear about Rhaeger when one of our POV characters has a reason to reminisce about him which with all the impending war, I don't see happening soon.

[Ygrain]

Really?

He eloped or kidnapped (Starks thought kidnapped, so did Robert) a daughter or a famous House, strongest in the North.

THe official version 14 years later tells nothing about what Rickard or Brandon thought or knew.

He betrayed both his wife and his children, and basically the whole Dorne.

Dorne was pissed alright but nowhere on the verge of rebellion. As for Elia, there is no information on what she knew or thought, and as for the children, there were still his two dragon heads, i.e. not disinherited or removed from the line of succession or anything like that,

He was a married heir to the throne going away with another woman (again, or kidnapping her).

He couldn't know it would cause damage?

I mean, it didn't take a scientist to realize that only really bad things could happen there.

"Damage" or "bad things" do not automatically equal to an all-out war. It's not like the Targs didn't have high-born mistresses before; given Lyanna's status, a political shitstorm could have been expected, but nothing that lands or titles wouldn't appease.

I mean, people dump on a 15/16 year old Robb for marrying Jeyne, but everyone always talks of Rhaeger as this perfect prince,

when he did something much worse at a more mature age.

Robb's powerbase and reputation was several levels below Rhaegar's, and he wasn't from a family that got a pass for polygamy in the past,

He set in motion a chain reaction that plunged his country into turmoil for a generation because he had a prophecy to fulfill.

What generation? THe rebellion lasted for about a year.

You could say he didn't know what would happen, but eloping with the daughter of a powerful family without explanation is disaster waiting to happen. He may not have known the form of the disaster, but he wasn't (or shouldn't have been) ignorant of the consequences to his actions. You can't disappear with the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell without calling out the armies. Ask Bael.

Gee, I didn't know that Bael was a Crown Prince. As for the rest of the argument, see above.

There were also much time for which that is unaccounted for from Rhaegar. Lord Rickard presumably had to travel for weeks to get from Winterfell to King's Landing.

True enough. Lots of vital information missing.

What was Rhaegar doing? Not paying attention to his ravens I suppose, you know explaining to his father and Brandon that it was all a misunderstanding or whatever. The guy is certifiable.

Couldn't be reached by ravenmail while travelling? Had considerable delay in receiving fresh news due to the travel times?

[Thaune]

THe official version 14 years later tells nothing about what Rickard or Brandon thought or knew.

What do you mean?

By all accounts, Brandon asked for Rhaegar to answer for the crime of abducting Lyanna, in front of the court.

Again, unless I'm missing something there?

[JeepCSC]

Obviously the realm is still suffering from the problems that came when Rhaegar took Lyanna. We have had 2 all-out wars in a 15-year span, a general rebellion from the Greyjoys, an invasion that is just beginning, and Dany hasn't even decided to budge yet with her own invasion. That is probably more fighting in 15 years than Westeros has seen since pre-Targs.

And what does Bael not being crown prince have to do with anything? Crown princes get a free pass when absconding with daughters of lords?

[Anath]

Because every cause needs a hero and Aerys could not fulfill the role.

Because he was good-looking, married to a sickly woman not of his choice (who would think that at Westeros, a prince did not get to choose his wife!) and he died romantically, with a woman's (was she a woman already, BTW? She seems still a girl to me) name on his lips.

[Ygrain]

What do you mean?

By all accounts, Brandon asked for Rhaegar to answer for the crime of abducting Lyanna, in front of the court.

Again, unless I'm missing something there?

By the single account we have (Jaime telling Catelyn), Brandon came to the Red Keep and started yelling for Rhaegar to "come out and die".

Obviously the realm is still suffering from the problems that came when Rhaegar took Lyanna. We have had 2 all-out wars in a 15-year span, a general rebellion from the Greyjoys, an invasion that is just beginning, and Dany hasn't even decided to budge yet with her own invasion. That is probably more fighting in 15 years than Westeros has seen since pre-Targs.

I fail to see what Rhaegar has to do with Robert being a shitty king and Cersei effectively blowing the line of succession into hell.

And what does Bael not being crown prince have to do with anything? Crown princes get a free pass when absconding with daughters of lords?

Everything? People are not considered equal in Westeros,

[Ygrain]

Because every cause needs a hero and Aerys could not fulfill the role.

Because he was good-looking, married to a sickly woman not of his choice (who would think that at Westeros, a prince did not get to choose his wife!) and he died romantically, with a woman's (was she a woman already, BTW? She seems still a girl to me) name on his lips.

A girl was considered a woman after her first period.

[JeepCSC]

Crown princes aren't allowed to "kidnap" lord's daughters. That should be self-evident, unless you are going down the Dany-Viserys rabbit hole that "dragons do not care what the sheep say, the dragon merely takes what it wants". And Robert wouldn't have been king and Cersei would never have been able to blow the line of succession if Rhaegar had not eloped with Lyanna. I didn't say Rhaegar was directly responsible, only that he set off the chain reaction that led Westeros to the sad state it is in. Which he did. After creating a situation that he knew was wrong (he'd have done it openly if he knew otherwise) and then letting his phone go to voice mail after he did what he did because he didn't care to see what would happen.

And I guess we could say Jaime was lying about what Brandon did. But then that changes why Mad King Aerys arrested Brandon, and called Lord Rickard to answer charges. And if we go that far, perhaps Aerys was right to do what he did. Perhaps he is not mad at all, and was quite sane and it was the rest of Westeros that was Mad. Perhaps.

[Morienthar]

There are quite a few mediocre reasons..

1.Aerys had set the bar low.

2.Rhaegar was good looking,charming and probably honorable.

3.He was a bit of a romantic and melancholy,I guess that won the ladies over.

[Blackfyre demon]

Really?

He eloped or kidnapped (Starks thought kidnapped, so did Robert) a daughter or a famous House, strongest in the North.

He betrayed both his wife and his children, and basically the whole Dorne.

He was a married heir to the throne going away with another woman (again, or kidnapping her).

He couldn't know it would cause damage?

I mean, it didn't take a scientist to realize that only really bad things could happen there.

First Lyanna and the North,

By all accounts Brandon was a hothead (wolfsblood), he let his famous temper get the better of him, which got him killed by challenging the Mad kings son to a duel (to the death). Rickard only went south to DEFEND his son and heir, not to kill Rhaegar.

Lyanna was headstrong and willful so if Rhaegar took her by force I'm quite sure she would have immasculated him. We have all read that she was not unable to defend herself.

Second Dorne,

The Dornish have a custom to take paramours and legitimazing their offspring. If Rhaegar married Lyanna however (which I think happened, since polygamy is still legal) it could be considered a stain on the honor of house Martell, but since his first wife had become barren I don't think Doran would have done anything.

He knew there was going to be some damage, but it would have been minor, but keep in mind that only Brandon Stark truly took offense (Robert by all accounts did nothing) until the mad king blew it all by murdering Rickard and Brandon and demanding the heads of Eddard and Robert.

Now why Rhaegar was so revered, it's the combination of everything that made him so appealing, his looks, charm, combat prowess, mastery of the harp, knowledge and his melancholy. Especially the fact that Eddard who lost his sister to Rhaegar, doesn't seem to hate the man speaks volumes.

His compassion and sense of duty, he would have been a great king.