Axell Florent: The True Faustian Character of ASOIAF

[RenlyIsNotRight]

When reading about Stannis on these forums, much talk has been made of the "Faustian" element of his character, that he seems to have "made a deal with the devil", essentially compromised his own morals and rigid sense of justice to get him to where he is - in a position to eventually take his rightful place on the Iron Throne. However, what I think a lot of people who believe this about Stannis forget is that the Iron Throne is not his goal out of desire, but simply because he believes in absolute justice. Stannis is not the true Faust of ASOIAF, that is another character...Axell Florent.

As we all know, the name of GRRMs game is the subversion of tropes. Stannis seems like the obvious choice for the "Faustian character" of ASOIAF, but in reality, right under our fucking noses, he presents us with a minor character who embodies this better than Stannis ever could. Like Stannis, Axell participated in the death of his brother. The difference? While Stannis was involved in the killing of his younger brother for attempting to usurp HIS rightful place on the Iron Throne, Axell actually killed his OLDER brother, who by rights was Lord of Brightwater Keep at that point, to become head of the house for himself. Of course, with Alekyne Florent fled to the Hightower and not seeming to be in good favor with Stannis, Axell - the castellan of Dragonstone - is obviously the de facto head of the house at this point.

So what do I see for Axell Florent in the future? Well...let's be real people, as much as we all love Stannis, he's been doomed from the start. His obsessive need to sit the Iron Throne, as a result of his seeing at as himself exacting absolute justice, will ultimately be the reason he never will, at least more than briefly. With this and an upcoming "dance of dragons" in our wake, I see KL being in complete chaos and turmoil at some point in the next two books - during which time I also see Darkstar sitting the Iron Throne for all of a few minutes, taking a shit on it and then walking away - and at some point, Axell - now the Lord of Harrenhal - will take the Iron Throne for himself, using his levies to take the city without much a challenge.

Why do I think this? It does seem far fetched after all, this cannot be denied. However, I am going by two quotes - one from GRRM himself and one from GRRM writing in character for Axell. I'll talk about Axells quote first....

"...if you've broken her to saddle, well...we are both men of the world, are we not?"

Axell seeing himself as a "man of the world" may seem like an allusion to his (quite possibly exaggerated, or even just imagined) sexual prowess, but I think what Axell is truly hinting at here is a plan for imperialism and expansion of Westeros. The "seven kingdoms" would not be good enough for a Florent Iron Throne - Axell recognizes the value that having Essos and its trading ports under his own control would entail. The Iron Throne under Axell would begin with a conquest of the Free Cities, then further East into Qarth, Asshai, the Dothraki Sea, etc, all to expand the wealth of Westeros. He'd even actually make good on what Robert never could do himself and conquer the Summer Isles...Axell clearly just wishes to create a globalization of Westeros, and with GRRMs noted left wing political stance, this is consistent.

As for GRRMs quote, he did say that the person who ends up on the Iron Throne will be "someone unexpected". Who better to end up on the Iron Throne then, with his status as an under the radar character for most and his clear great ambitions and will to go any means to gain power, than Axell Florent? This seems obvious to me.

Thoughts?

[Gneisenau]

Not to mention he has a cool name

[E-Ro]

Very interesting brah. Hmmm. I will have to think on this for a bit before i fully respond.

ETA: You know what, on further thought, this has completely changed my entire perspective on the series. You figured it all out, and im convinced this is how it will end. Who better to sit the throne if stannis cant then a man of the world?

[High Septon Ramsay]

Dude seems a bit too much like a kissup/coattail rider to have any grand schemes of his own. I think he's just there to cause minor trouble for Davos and later Jon.

[Flig]

during which time I also see Darkstar sitting the Iron Throne for all of a few minutes, taking a shit on it and then walking away -

My favorite theory ever. :lmao:

[Light a wight tonight]

If Stannis to decides to go south by ship and needs a favorable wind all Axell's plans are likely to go up in smoke.....literally.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

If Stannis to decides to go south by ship and needs a favorable wind all Axell's plans are likely to go up in smoke.....literally.

Brah, Stannis only did that shit to Alester Florent because he was a convicted criminal. Axell is not. Axell will be fine.

[Light a wight tonight]

Brah, Stannis only did that shit to Alester Florent because he was a convicted criminal. Axell is not. Axell will be fine.

He did it for the wind. That Alester deserved death was just the excuse. The Mannis is more and more willing to torch people.

[Lord Flashheart]

When reading about Stannis on these forums, much talk has been made of the "Faustian" element of his character, that he seems to have "made a deal with the devil", essentially compromised his own morals and rigid sense of justice to get him to where he is - in a position to eventually take his rightful place on the Iron Throne. However, what I think a lot of people who believe this about Stannis forget is that the Iron Throne is not his goal out of desire, but simply because he believes in absolute justice. Stannis is not the true Faust of ASOIAF, that is another character...Axell Florent.

As we all know, the name of GRRMs game is the subversion of tropes. Stannis seems like the obvious choice for the "Faustian character" of ASOIAF, but in reality, right under our fucking noses, he presents us with a minor character who embodies this better than Stannis ever could. Like Stannis, Axell participated in the death of his brother. The difference? While Stannis was involved in the killing of his younger brother for attempting to usurp HIS rightful place on the Iron Throne, Axell actually killed his OLDER brother, who by rights was Lord of Brightwater Keep at that point, to become head of the house for himself. Of course, with Alekyne Florent fled to the Hightower and not seeming to be in good favor with Stannis, Axell - the castellan of Dragonstone - is obviously the de facto head of the house at this point.

So what do I see for Axell Florent in the future? Well...let's be real people, as much as we all love Stannis, he's been doomed from the start. His obsessive need to sit the Iron Throne, as a result of his seeing at as himself exacting absolute justice, will ultimately be the reason he never will, at least more than briefly. With this and an upcoming "dance of dragons" in our wake, I see KL being in complete chaos and turmoil at some point in the next two books - during which time I also see Darkstar sitting the Iron Throne for all of a few minutes, taking a shit on it and then walking away - and at some point, Axell - now the Lord of Harrenhal - will take the Iron Throne for himself, using his levies to take the city without much a challenge.

Why do I think this? It does seem far fetched after all, this cannot be denied. However, I am going by two quotes - one from GRRM himself and one from GRRM writing in character for Axell. I'll talk about Axells quote first....

Axell seeing himself as a "man of the world" may seem like an allusion to his (quite possibly exaggerated, or even just imagined) sexual prowess, but I think what Axell is truly hinting at here is a plan for imperialism and expansion of Westeros. The "seven kingdoms" would not be good enough for a Florent Iron Throne - Axell recognizes the value that having Essos and its trading ports under his own control would entail. The Iron Throne under Axell would begin with a conquest of the Free Cities, then further East into Qarth, Asshai, the Dothraki Sea, etc, all to expand the wealth of Westeros. He'd even actually make good on what Robert never could do himself and conquer the Summer Isles...Axell clearly just wishes to create a globalization of Westeros, and with GRRMs noted left wing political stance, this is consistent.

As for GRRMs quote, he did say that the person who ends up on the Iron Throne will be "someone unexpected". Who better to end up on the Iron Throne then, with his status as an under the radar character for most and his clear great ambitions and will to go any means to gain power, than Axell Florent? This seems obvious to me.

Thoughts?

Magnum Opus.

[Jon of the Dead]

He did it for the wind. That Alester deserved death was just the excuse. The Mannis is more and more willing to torch people.

Alester was trying to implement his half-baked attempt of an Operation Valkyrie. He was a threat for Stannis. Still, he didn't deserve to get burned, but at least he gave them good winds ;)

[Rhymes with Weak]

I'd be fine with it. As long as Dany doesn't get "broken to saddle" before this is all over.

[Fire Eater]

Axell is an amoral, careerist-oriented person who cares mainly about his self-advancement, and is even willing to forsake family in that quest.

[jarl the climber]

As long as he comes through with the half naked dancing ladies he saw in the fires I'm OK with him sitting on the throne.

[Lord Flashheart]

Axell is an amoral, careerist-oriented person who cares mainly about his self-advancement, and is even willing to forsake family in that quest.

In the world of westeros this should land him on the throne.

[Duckfield]

I still don'y know if this is troll or real, lol.

Axell is Stannis' most loyal bannerman aside Davos (even though they hate each other), he does whatever necessary for his king and his faith in Rh'llor is nearly as strong as Mel's. Other than that, we don't know much about him yet, although I'm sure he'll have an important roll to play, for good or bad. Also, somehow I find it hard to believe he'll be surviving the series.

There's also a theory that he saw a true vision in the flames, the one he told Davos about in ACOK and in the vision he sees Jon Snow, but mistakes him for Stannis:

"Ser Davos, it is good to see you, as ever," he said.

"And you, my lord."

I made note of you this morning as well. The false gods burned with a merry light, did they not?"

"They burned brightly." Davos did not trust this man, for all his courtesy. House Florent had declared for Renly.

The Lady Melisandre tells us that sometimes R'hllor permits his faithful servants to glimpse the future in flames. It seemed to me as I watched the fire this morning that I was looking at a dozen beautiful dancers, maidens garbed in yellow silk spinning and swirling before a great king. I think it was a true vision, ser. A glimpse of the glory that awaits His Grace after we take King's Landing and the throne that it is his by rights."

Later, in Jon's pov:

Jon went to cut more branches, snapping each one in two before tossing it into the fire. The tree had been dead a long time, but it seemed to live again in the fire, as fiery dancers woke within each stick of wood to whirl and spin in their glowing gowns of yellow, red and orange.

"Enough," Qhorin said abruptly. "Now we ride.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

There's also a theory that he saw a true vision in the flames, the one he told Davos about in ACOK and in the vision he sees Jon Snow, but mistakes him for Stannis:

This is not a passage I'd ever paid much mind to in the past, but actually, now I'm seeing this as foreshadowing for Axell taking the throne - it is highly out of character for Stannis or Jon to have a bunch of dancing laides surround themselves if they'd taken the throne, but clearly, this is something King Axell would be very into. I'm using this as further fuel for my theory. Thanks for that.

[Sordelor]

But who will be his heir...

[RenlyIsNotRight]

But who will be his heir...

His as of yet unborn children by Queen Val of course...she is well made for whelping children after all.

[jarl the climber]

His as of yet unborn children by Queen Val of course...she is well made for whelping children after all.

He married one of Kingsbloods daughters, I beleive, but that this sort of foreshadows his great destiny. The one guy that Sam met at the Citadel, Leo Tyrell, also reported seeing similar things in the fire. He said something about naked women but his skill level is no where near Axells.

[Fire Eater]

"...if you've broken her to saddle, well...we are both men of the world, are we not?"

Translation: If you raped her as keeping her as your own personal concubine, I'm cool with that, I mean we're both guys here. right?