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The Battle of Oldtown and its Participants


30 replies to this topic

#1 Dead Wolf

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:59 PM

The Defenders: Leyton Hightower and all his levies and ships
The Raiders: Anywhere between 200 and 500 ironborn longships, the other will be conquering the Arbor or taking Highgarden
The Saviors: Aegon or JonCon (I say or because if they're smart they'll split their men into two hosts horse and foot, and send one commander with each. Aegon of course will have Franklyn Flowers) will have maybe 7000 men, a half digested stew of Dornishmen eager for war, stormlords, and sellswords.
The Daynes: They don't seem to have joined Lords Yronwood and Fowler, and there are a couple ways they could get there. A secret mountain pass or ships out of Starfall
The Religious Fanatics: The orders of Sword and Star will come to defend the Starry Sept, the original seat of the High Septon, after Cersei chases the High Septon out of King's Landing
The Roses: Mace Tyrell after Marg's trial will go forth to fight the GC, or send Randyll Tarly to do it for him
Thoughts?

#2 Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

Im really looking forward to this.
Old town is one of the most interesting arcs I have set my eyes on.
I think oldtown is doomed, I saw a very convincing theory of that I think Euron will win.

#3 Dead Wolf

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:06 PM

Im really looking forward to this.
Old town is one of the most interesting arcs I have set my eyes on.
I think oldtown is doomed, I saw a very convincing theory of that I think Euron will win.

Same here. I personally think Oldtown is just a feint so Euron can take HG

#4 Fire Eater

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:28 PM

I started a thread on the Battle of Oldtown.

Euron is eventually going to assault Oldtown. I don't think Euron is going to have a frontal assault on Oldtown with the increased harbor defenses and Redwyne's fleet.

There is some foreshadowing to the battle.

AFfC Samawell V
"The Ravenry is the oldest building at the Citadel," Alleras told him, as they crossed over the slow-flowing waters of Honeywine. "In the Age of Heroes it was supposedly the stronghold of a pirate lord who sat here robbing ships as they came down the river."

In this case, a pirate lord (Euron) will be coming down the Honeywine River. He will have the longships carried overland, like Vikings did in the real world, to the waters of the Honeywine river. He will attack from behind where the Hightowers least expect it.

AFfC Samwell V
"The Citadel is not what it was," complained the blond. [Lazy Leo speaking to Sam] They will take anything these days. Dusky dogs and Dornishmen, pig boys, cripples, cretins and now a black-clad whale. And here I thought leviathans were gray.

ADwD Davos III
Behind the dais a kraken and a leviathan were locked in battle beneath the painted waves.

Sam will participate in the battle. Alleras will help Sam improve his archery skills, and the results of the training will show.

AFfC Samwell V
The gates of the Citadel were flanked by a pair of towering green sphinxes with the bodies of lions, the wings of eagles and the tails of serpents.

The Celtic griffin had the body of a lion and the wings of an eagle, and in some other cases, the tail of a serpent. This foreshadows Connington coming to Oldtown. He will be Oldtown's savior in that battle.

I think the battle will turn out to be something reminiscent of the Battle of Redgrass Field. Like Baelor Breakspear arriving with forces of Dornishmen and Stormlanders to surprise the Blackfyre army and take them in the rear, Connington will bring his forces made up of Dornishmen and Stormlanders to aid Oldtown to win their allegiance, and surprise the Ironborn and crush them against the city walls.

Eustace Osgrey stated that the battle was lost by the Blackfyres before Baelor arrived when Bloodraven slew Daemon with bow and arrow. Euron's nickname may hint at his demise, his black Crow's Eye could be a kind of bullseye, the black or outlined black circular spot on a target, that will be taken out by the crow, Sam. The Battle of Oldtown will already be decided when Sam slays Euron with a bow and arrow.

If King's Landing loses Oldtown and the Arbor, the whole realm will fall to pieces, he [Sam] thought

KL will lose Oldtown and the Arbor when Lords Hightower and Redwyne swear fealty to Aegon in return for aiding them.

Thoughts?



#5 Dead Wolf

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:40 PM

I started a thread on the Battle of Oldtown.

This thread is about who's fighting, not the battle itself.

#6 Fire Eater

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:11 PM

This thread is about who's fighting, not the battle itself.


I provided that as well. Those are the only participants, as Mace's armies are in KL and/or dealing with Connington, so Mace is unlikely to have sent aid to Oldtown. The Daynes are unlikely to be involved as their lord is currently in the riverlands with the Bwb. Besides, Connington can get to Oldtown quicker without going through Dorne.

Edited by Fire Eater, 27 September 2013 - 10:13 PM.


#7 Gneisenau

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:13 PM

How do the Ironborn have the men to take the Reach, but couldn't take the North/Westerlands ?

#8 Rickeen Baratheon

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

I believe the lands they're planning to to take are closer to rivers and water, than the north, which only had the coasts. - Which is what Balon wanted Theon to take.

#9 falcotron

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:25 PM

How do the Ironborn have the men to take the Reach, but couldn't take the North/Westerlands ?

I believe the lands they're planning to to take are closer to rivers and water, than the north, which only had the coasts. - Which is what Balon wanted Theon to take.


He asked about the North and the Westerlands, and Lannisport and Casterly Rock are just as coastal as Oldtown and Highgarden…

But I'm not sure this matters. Balon was able to take the North, and he never tried to take the West, so "how can Euron take the Reach if Balon couldn't take the North or the West" is kind of a moot question.

#10 northernmonkey

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:28 PM

I started a thread on the Battle of Oldtown.


The story of the pirate lord could also be a reference to Aurane Waters, who's described as a pirate king and lord of the waters (assuming it's him they're talking about). Maybe it's a hint that he'll be involved.

#11 northernmonkey

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:31 PM

Also, why would Aegon decide to go and defend Oldtown? The Tyrell's are his enemies at the moment, shouldn't he leave it to them to protect their own territory?

#12 Fire Eater

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:36 PM

Also, why would Aegon decide to go and defend Oldtown? The Tyrell's are his enemies at the moment, shouldn't he leave it to them to protect their own territory?


Saving Oldtown when he could have taken advantage of the attack would win the Hightowers, the richest and most powerful vassals of the Tyrells, and with them the dam would break, and other Tyrell bannermen would flock to him.

#13 ScattAttack19

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:37 PM

I have a feeling we're expecting a attack on Oldtown but it's a fein and Euron is going to sack the arbor while paxter and his fleets are gone

#14 Fire Eater

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:56 PM

I have a feeling we're expecting a attack on Oldtown but it's a fein and Euron is going to sack the arbor while paxter and his fleets are gone


But the Arbor is already being attacked according to last Sam POV in AFfC, and Euron is actively trying to attack Oldtown, otherwise why pose as Tyroshi sailors to set fire to the port as a distraction?

Welcome to the forum by the way.

Edited by Fire Eater, 27 September 2013 - 11:57 PM.


#15 Euranus

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:10 AM

I think it'd be pointless to introduce Euron to the books so late, and as a completely wicked guy with a possible shot at stealing Dany's dragons, if the plans were for him to die trying to sack Oldtown.

I think his next big military conquest, whether it's Oldtown or not, will result in a victory. If he does go for Oldtown, I don't see Aegon or JonCon being there to save the day... and I think Euron would find a way to do it in such a surprising and sudden fashion that he would have taken the place before help could arrive.

#16 Fire Eater

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:34 AM

I think it'd be pointless to introduce Euron to the books so late, and as a completely wicked guy with a possible shot at stealing Dany's dragons, if the plans were for him to die trying to sack Oldtown.


I don't think so the clues provided show that
  • Euron sends Victarion with the Iron Fleet and dragon horn to Dany to allow her to grab a fleet to bring her people to Westeros, as well as a dragon horn to control her dragons
  • His attack on Oldtown gives Aegon the opportunity to gain the support of Oldtown and the Arbor, the two most powerful vassals in the Reach, making Aegon more formidable for a DoD 2.0
  • He is part of building up Sam when Sam kills him with a bow and arrow. Having already killed an other with a dagger, killing with a bow and arrow has Sam become the huntsman of his sigil.


#17 House Morrissey

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 01:32 AM

I don't see all these Dornishmen being too happy with defending The Reach.

#18 Euranus

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:30 AM

I don't think so the clues provided show that

  • Euron sends Victarion with the Iron Fleet and dragon horn to Dany to allow her to grab a fleet to bring her people to Westeros, as well as a dragon horn to control her dragons
  • His attack on Oldtown gives Aegon the opportunity to gain the support of Oldtown and the Arbor, the two most powerful vassals in the Reach, making Aegon more formidable for a DoD 2.0
  • He is part of building up Sam when Sam kills him with a bow and arrow. Having already killed an other with a dagger, killing with a bow and arrow has Sam become the huntsman of his sigil.


I don't know, I really don't think GRRM introduced the ironborn as a serious player this late in the books solely as a means to benefit the other characters, mainly those vying for the throne in Aegon and Dany. For example, I don't think Moqorro would see (what I presume to be) Euron's shadow the most of all if he wasn't going to be a major player. If anything, I think they will be a pain in their arse for a while and add to the chaos that is Westeros before the Others come invading. I think Euron has some tricks up his sleeve that will prove successful, for a while anyway.

I always took this quote from Daenerys as a bit of foreshadowing: "Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice."

But I could be mistaken. I do foresee Sam eventually becoming skilled enough with a bow and arrow to kill a man and redeem himself (in his father's eyes, anyway) but I don't see that happening in the context you described above. I'm not sure if there will be a Dance of Dragons 2.0, as I believe Aegon wants to ally with her, but if there is, it's kind of an unfair fight since one side has dragons and the other does not. I will admit, though, I have no clue how the dragon horn angle will eventually play out. However, I do not think Euron is stupid enough to simply give Victarion the horn, knowing what it does to those who blow it, and trust in him bring back dragons. I think Euron is up to something, possibly with the help of the warlocks.

#19 AntZ

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:34 AM

He is part of building up Sam when Sam kills him with a bow and arrow. Having already killed an other with a dagger, killing with a bow and arrow has Sam become the huntsman of his sigil.


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

Bran will show Sam how to make those magical weirwood arrows he saw in the vision. Sam already turned to the old gods and he befirended Bran at the Nightfort.

Edited by Lamprey, 28 September 2013 - 02:35 AM.


#20 DireMaker

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:41 AM

The Ironborn will take oldtown. He already has a FM put there to steal the book, and with such Knowledge he will be Dany's greatest threat, as per the moqovision. JonCon and Faegon will possibly come to help, but they will not prevail. I agree the Ironborn have had too much forshadowing as a true enemy to be laid to waste. I understand alot of people don't like thier way of thinking (especially the female posters....) but remember the dark ages and the vikings? They conquered almost all the known world, and all they did was rape pillage and plunder. The Ironborn may not be the most PC, but they will get shit done, rather than scheming about it.