GOODKIND VII, The sword of truthiness

[niamh]

Well I've this one made already

[clop clop clop]

ZEDD:

And that, my grandson, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped.

RICHARD:

This new learning amazes me, Zedd. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.

ZEDD:

Oh, certainly, Richard.

CARA:

Look, Lord Rahl!

[trumpets]

RICHARD:

Agaden reach!

KAHLAN:

Agaden reach!

CARA:

Agaden reach!

BETTY THE GOAT:

It's only a model.

RICHARD:

Shh! Free D'harans, I bid you welcome to your new home.

Let us ride... to... Agaden!

[in witch hall]

MORD-SITH: [singing]

We're a bunch of D'haran rabble.

We dance whene'er we're able.

We do routines and chorus scenes

With footwork impeccable.

We dine well here in Agaden.

We eat ham and jam and spam even.

[dancing]

We're a bunch of D'haran rabble.

Our shows are formidable,

But many times we're given rhymes

That are quite unsingable.

We're opera mad in Agaden.

We sing from the diaphragm even.

[in dungeon]

IMPERIAL PRISONER :

[clap clap clap clap]

[in witch hall]

MORD-SITH: [tap-dancing]

In torture we're tough and able,

Quite indefatigable.

Between the shocks we knit our socks and impersonate John Wayne.

It's a busy life in Agaden.

CHICKEN:

I have to feed the hen a lot!.

[outdoors]

RICHARD:

Well, on second thought, let's not go to Agaden. It is a silly place.

MORD-SITH:

Right. Right.

[theMountainGoat]

Hes not the Seeker, hes a very naughty boy!

[BranTheBuilder]

I've a suggestion for the next thread - how about limiting things to just Parody and QOTD - leave off all matters not relating directly to these subjects?

I'd imagine that this would cut down on the issues that have caused the various problems recently. It would also be great to encorage the recent spate of very funny satires/parodies - I'm sure that most of us are racking our brains trying to think of new and interesting literature to work with. (although I'm tempted to try a film script version....)

and once again - Thank you MM and MinDonner your posts are the highlights of my afternoon!

[14th Dragon]

What has happened is that one liners in other threads cause them to die in fairly rapid fashion. These threads are fairly boring and often die swift death as something else sweeps in. Bringing the hammer down on them is akin to clubing a stone, why bother? Yet once you hit the 7th incarnation of a thread, that seems to not be losing steam in the slightest, then such activities can become common and become like an epidemic within the thread/s and then become a modable problem.

Anyway, onto QOTD commentary. Well, as a person with highly questionable skills in the writing department, I can certainly appeciate the inclusion of the editor in the acknowledgements. But given that even with the editor such an enourmous amount of writing mistakes get through does suggest two or three more is in order. But we see simlar from many authors. I certainly do not mind the charecter shout out, I have heard plenty of writers thank thier charecters, since for them they really do come alive in their heads. What is frigtening is that as the books move on, these charecters are becoming more psycotic, which one wonders as they live in his head, is it now turning into an insane assylum?

The last one was pretty funny. Tween places are such dangerous overlaps in the universe, just look at the amount of danger that they hold, how would one be able to judge clearly if they are equally dark and light?

[Jagged]

I've a suggestion for the next thread - how about limiting things to just Parody and QOTD - leave off all matters not relating directly to these subjects?

If you can get it done more power to you. I just don't want Ran and GRRM to start getting angry hate mail or anything.

[The Wolf Maid]

I would like to thank some special people:

My agent, Russell Galen, for having the guts to be the first to pick up the sword and making my dreams reality. <sword? okay.>

My editor, James Frenkel, not only for his exceptional editorial talent, guidance, and improvements in the book, but also for his boundless good humor and patience at teaching me to be a better author along the way.

He needed a sword to hack through the stuff TG originally wrote so it could be published. Forget scissors or editing software. You need a sword. A big sharp one that could cut through paper in one swing.

I think with editing GK, to describe his editor's attitude as having 'good humor and patience' is an understatement.

I'm kidding, of course. It's nice to know TG thanks his editors. I would imagine editing a huge series like SoT to be a complete pain in the ass at times.

Beware when day meets dark. Beware crossroads, where they skulk. They can lurk in fire’s crackle and easily travel on sparks. Beware gloomy places among rocks, under things, down holes and caves and shafts of every kind. Beware crags and edges and water’s brink-the fey creatures slip along borders, where this meets that.

Some are of terrible icy beauty. Most are shaped by whim. They often crave attention. Pray not provoke them, for they revel in causing extravagant harm, and are dangerous in the extreme. They are tireless hunters, these thieves of magic, without empathy, without a soul[…]

And yet the chimes chose to be a chicken that is not a chicken. WTF. Where is the terrible icy beauty? And where, heaven help us, is this meets that?

[in witch hall]

MORD-SITH: [singing]

Nuuuuuooooooooh! No singing! *brain explodes*

but we do need to be more mindful of what we say here. If the threads are stopped, my mornings will be completely shot.

I agree. I find this thread addicting. I keep on checking it, every day and night. Brightens my day. If this is stopped, I would be bereft.

[MinDonner]

Where this meets that... like chickens meeting not-chickens? No wonder Kahlan was confused.

[Elrostar]

Apparently it's only where this meets that. That meeting this is completely different.

So I have been listening to ACOK on audiobook a bit lately and have noticed that GRRM doesn't used the word "thing" at all, which has led me to wonder why GK seems to use it so much. And wonder whether he actually does, or whether that's just the impression I've got from these threads (since I've never read the books and have no intention of doing so). I mean, I think that it crops up in LotR from time to time, chiefly in describing the Ring (Frodo uses it, I think), but that sort of makes sense. Is GK just making a huge enormous homage (or thing) to Tolkien by constantly using the word "thing" to describe an object of power? Discuss.

[niamh]

I found a total of 508 (give or take for human errors) instances of thing and things in wizard's first rule only. Not doing it ever again, thank you

[Elrostar]

I found a total of 508 (give or take for human errors) instances of thing and things in wizard's first rule only. Not doing it ever again, thank you

You just looked through all of WFR for every instance of thing, just for me? Wow. I feel extremely honoured I guess the problem with it all being a Tolkien homage is that Tolkien writes fantasy, and that Goodkind (BBHN, WLHTU) writes novels.

[Watcher]

Mindonner I was going to give you the best Terry (BBHN) parody award. But even with mega-bonus points from Scott (whose book I’m eagerly awaiting) the Master edges you out again. That’s because in the first QoTD on thread Terry (BBHN) managed to CONTRADICT his main theme of individualism and objectivity!! I reread that one three times to make sure that I read it correctly.

Goodkind (BBHN) really surprised me. I thought the passage was going to be some kind of attack on Islam and religion in general. My jaw actually fell open when I realized that it was affirming the power of a group.

I am now convinced that TG is going to start a Religion that is not a Religion.

In a few years Goodkindology is going to be in computation with Scientology for buying late night commercial promoting how to live a moral life.

Goodkindetics: The Modern Science of Moral Clarity

Need to know what to do:

with annoying eight year olds? Page 18 (kick her in the face)

if you encounter a group of peaceful protestors? Page 234 (slaughter them all if they disagree with you)

How to build a straw man argument? Page 804

Dedicated to the people in the United States Intelligence Community who, for decades, have valiantly fought to preserve life and liberty, while being ridiculed, condemned, demonized, and shackled by the jackals of evil.

This is just scary. I wonder if he thinks the “jackals of evil†is Congress in general who passed laws so they’ll know what the CIA is doing with the taxpayer’s money. Or just those who want to make sure the CIA isn’t violating the U.S. Constitution.

[niamh]

I'm an idiot, all right

My view is that Tolkien writes Myth & Legend, and Goodking writes fantasy. But that's arguable, of course

[Sad King Billy]

I've found this site on GWB & fascism, and I wonder how many of those points work for GK.

Let's begin:

1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Apart from references to the USA GK may put in his work, I haven't seen much evidence on this. nope. (I think I'm missing something here... What? Something from his interviews?)

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Torture? Check, Executions? Check. Assassinations? IRRC, in one of the books, Kahlan sends an entire regiment to harass the army of Jagang, and on their return they state that they slaughtered a large chunk of his soldiers. However, it does seem like a common tactic in TG's work. The difference is that jagang's assassinations are pictured as horrible, while the "good guy" hitmen are praised. So: yes.

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Richard has stated time and again that "those who aren't with us, are against us". Also, every one needs to swear loyalty to R. in order to be safe from Jagang. Yes. Also, it's a reoccurring theme in his interviews that our society is (apparently) on the brink of destruction.

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

D'hara seems to be very militarised nation.

5.) Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Well, apart from the fact that all women act like sluts, ... Homophobia is not present, though. (IIRC, in temple of the winds, GK has 2 protagonist lesbian characters)

6.) Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Not goodkind, but mystar seems to try and remove every piece of GK critiscism on the Net. So, for now, I'd say this isn't true.

7.) Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses

"you will swear fealty to me, or Jagang will conquer and rape and pillage and ..."

Dedicated to the people in the United States Intelligence Community

. Would you like to learn more?

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

There is a religion devoted to worshipping Richard. I'd say Pass very much!

9.) Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Not protected as such, but ... see the following.

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

In Faith of the fallen, GK creates a very negative view of Labor Unions and the like. Pass.

11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Not the case in SOT. It's supposedly used "by the bad guys". However, if GK won't hear of any critiscism toward his works, I don't want to imagine what he'd do if in power...

12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations

Someone help me with this one: did the borderwatch from WFR have unchecked power?

13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Remember that nation in the midlands, Kelton? Richard named Kahlan the commander in chief, IIRC.

14. Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

No, not the case. But Richard works as an enlightened despot, rather than appointed by a democracy...

[VigoTheCarpathian]

The editor quote (and the other Python remarks made here), makes me think of one of the other prophets (like Nathan Rahl!) from "Life of Brian":

FALSE PROPHET: "...For the demon[or editor?] shall bear a nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed! Not two or five or seven, but nine, which he will wield on all wretched sinners, sinners just like you, sir, there, and the horns shall be on the head, with which he will..."

And another "prophecy" from the same sequence:

BLOOD & THUNDER PROPHET: "...And the bezan [Gratch?] shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of Babylon [Kahlan?] shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts. Yeeah..."

I just don't get why Richard hates prophecy, and tries to flout it at every turn with his free will.

[Moosicus]

One minute ago, Phantom arrived at my door. Tomorrow a new day dawns. Let the wicked tremble.

[niamh]

nobuddy as to 5)

I've never seen a hint of homophobia in the books; we do know for sure lesbians are fine. We don't know about men but can assume it's fine too. There's no sexism either, in the sense that women are in no way inferior to men, in any capacity. I'll give the man his due.

Anyway, on the other hand, the books are completely and unequivocally anti-abortion. Especially Richard. FYI

[Moosicus]

When Berdine (I think) tells Richard about her and Raina, Richard is very clear that he thinks its wrong.

[niamh]

When Berdine (I think) tells Richard about her and Raina, Richard is very clear that he thinks its wrong.

Yes, but Kahlan wins the argument easily, leaving Richard looking like an ass. Hence I think it's portrayed as OK.

[14th Dragon]

I've never seen a hint of homophobia in the books; we do know for sure lesbians are fine. We don't know about men but can assume it's fine too. There's no sexism either, in the sense that women are in no way inferior to men, in any capacity.

No real homophobia, though no guy on guy as of yet. (Author may have a few issues with trying to write that.) As for your sexism comment, it is kinda hard for an idiot to be inferior to a moron. Leveling everybody off at the lowest common demominator, does that count as sexism to both genders?

[niamh]

I'm trying to respond constructively to this, but I'm too busy laughing at the unfortunate truth of it