Angalin

[TWOW SPOILERS] Theon I, part vi

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If theon is being beheaded for killing the stark boys, and Davvos is off to get one, that isn't fair on Theon (or Yarra/Asha) I wish he had time to tell his sister they were alive.


Also Theon is the ONLY person around who knows who is in the castle, how to break in and how to break out.


Killing him... not the brightest idea Stannis.


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If theon is being beheaded for killing the stark boys, and Davvos is off to get one, that isn't fair on Theon (or Yarra/Asha) I wish he had time to tell his sister they were alive.

Also Theon is the ONLY person around who knows who is in the castle, how to break in and how to break out.

Killing him... not the brightest idea Stannis.

Climb over the wall to get in and jump off the wall to get out...is it really that much of a headbanger?

Stannis had Karstark and has his Maester they would be a fount of information as to who "was in the castle"...

Both in The Sacrafice chapter (less so) and Theon1...Theon babbles "everything to his sister" whther she bekieves him or not is another question..."take him to the tree" suggests not

Stannis has no clue as to Davos's whereabouts he might falsely concluded that since Manderly is with the Bolton in force Davos is longer on that plane...

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I beleive Theon will somehow stay alive if only to Ramsey or Roose our maybe to save a Stark including Jon.


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I beleive Theon will somehow stay alive if only to Ramsey or Roose our maybe to save a Stark including Jon.

Of course he is going to stay alive if only to fulfill Asha's dream of a Queensmoot redux....as noted by Haregg and pointed out by the Reader....

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Well, the Starks are back, that's clear.



The situation about WF is such a mess, but what keeps me guessing is Bran's involvement.



It seems we are taking for granted that BR, Bran,... are behind the ravens quarking about. The question is, what do they want Theon for?



I don't think Bran has any love for Theon, not I can imagine what use he might think for him... Maybe Winter is coming at last, and Starks' revenge with it. OTOH, Stannis has damaged the weirwoods.



Stannis is meant to abide northern uses, taking Theon before a weirwood and beheading him. I'd expect Bran's side performing some show: the old gods punishing the worshipers of R'hlor or something of the sort. What else?


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Back to WF mess.



Starks were the North overlords, and they were followed or accepted, not Boltons.



Manderleys are Stark men and they're clearly against Bolton. Still, he cant's punish them openly because he knows he doesn't have the other lords' fealty. They look at Bolton as an equal, at most. Umbers and Karstaks are into internecines feuds, but the Unbers have suffered a slight from Freys and Bolton... ant the North remembers. Lady Dustin sees herself OVER Bolton; she'll get rid of him at the fist chance... And Roose Bolton knows it all, no wonder he's increasingly afraid.



Add, the hooded man, the mystery deaths, Mance Ryder... foes are leaking in.



The bottom line is RB is not safe inside WF any more.


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If theon is being beheaded for killing the stark boys, and Davvos is off to get one, that isn't fair on Theon (or Yarra/Asha) I wish he had time to tell his sister they were alive.

You ask for fairness from GoT/GRRM?

Ha! Good one!

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Theon sacrifice is needed to empower the heart tree i guess,like Bran saw when he warged the weirnet.But the use of this empower i do not know :(

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Theon sacrifice is needed to empower the heart tree i guess,like Bran saw when he warged the weirnet.But the use of this empower i do not know :(

The Children carved the faces to awaken the trees.

I don't know where this empowering by blood sacrifice idea comes from..There is absolutely no evidence of that . Bran sees an ancient sacrifice, to which he spontaneously says "No, don't" ..and he says it while connected to the "weirnet" . If he could taste the blood , don't you think he could sense the sentiments of all the other greenseers ? He shares Summer's senses and emotions while warging.

Right at the beginning of AGoT , he learns not to look away ; to be impassive when watching the king's justice being done by Ned. If the sacrifice was the old gods' justice or something demanded or needed or desired by them , I think Bran would sense it . I think he would get a sudden sense of power from it ,if it empowered the tree.

ETA: But Bran's "power" is in his own blood. That's what makes him a warg and ( even more rare) a greenseer. The same is true for all the other greenseers and I would bet the same is true for the trees .

So, there probably is power in some kings' blood. Blood magic works because magic is real ... but I don't think the trees/old gods want or need blood sacrifice.

Edited by bemused

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The Children carved the faces to awaken the trees.

I don't know where this empowering by blood sacrifice idea comes from..There is absolutely no evidence of that . Bran sees an ancient sacrifice, to which he spontaneously says "No, don't" ..and he says it while connected to the "weirnet" . If he could taste the blood , don't you think he could sense the sentiments of all the other greenseers ? He shares Summer's senses and emotions while warging.

Right at the beginning of AGoT , he learns not to look away ; to be impassive when watching the king's justice being done by Ned. If the sacrifice was the old gods' justice or something wanted or needed or desired by them , I think Bran would sense it . I think he would get a sudden sense of power from it ,if it empowered the tree.

I have to agree here.

I think Bran's "No, don't" is foreshadowing what will happen when Theon is put in, more or less, the same position. The difference, and reason why we can see a foreshadow, is that Bran will actually now be able to communicate his disagreements in the present, as he was unable to do so in his visions of the past.

Edited by pobeb

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The sacrifice must have a purpose,it somehow must empower the weirwood/seers because Bran tasted blood when he had that vision.I may be wrong but if Bran did feel the taste of blood it was because he somehow ate blood via the weirwood(ignoring a possible jojen pasta theory)

Edited by Hupo Storm

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The sacrifice must have a purpose,it somehow must empower the weirwood/seers because Bran tasted blood when he had that vision.I may be wrong but if Bran did feel the taste of blood it was because he somehow ate blood via the weirwood(ignoring a possible jojen pasta theory)

I don't see the logic in this. What do you mean by empower ? Empower them how ,or to do what ? Does Bran truly taste the blood, or does he think he does because he sees it and has tasted blood many times before ( as himself and as Summer) ?

Not everything we taste "empowers" or is good for us. A healthy tonic has a taste, our favourite treat has a taste .. poison has a taste. Taste alone doesn't tell us what the effects are,

We don't know if what Bran saw was actually a sacrifice ( something done to win the favour of the gods ), or an execution for a crime ( the gods being asked to witness justice) .. What if it robs them of power ? We don't know what it does , or if it does anything at all.

During Stannis' meeting with his officers and Jon, someone (Suggs?) heaps scorn on the northmen / wildlings for worshipping something dogs piss on... Perhaps that would empower them too ?

All we know for sure is that some men think blood sacrifice is pleasing to some gods. Bran's viewpoint is the closest thing we have ( so far) to the viewpoint of the old gods , and he says "No, don't."

ETA: “I know that some men are saying that Tormo Fregar will surely be the new sealord,” she answered. “Some drunken men.” ... Arya , after being corrected by the Kindly Man (ADWD)

Edited by bemused

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When Bran tasted blood i had the feeling it was to feed the weirwood.I'm sorry if it seems i'm being stuborn or even trolling,my english is not in its prime.Just ignore this idea for now :p

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Well... OK, if you like.. But I'll say , I believe it's entirely possible that the woman with the bronze knife intended the blood to feed / nourish the tree / the gods and believed it would .. I just think she was probably wrong.


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Well... OK, if you like.. But I'll say , I believe it's entirely possible that the woman with the bronze knife intended the blood to feed / nourish the tree / the gods and believed it would .. I just think she was probably wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree. Bran absolutely rejects what he sees in the blood sacrifice. It's a moment that traces it's history back to the very beginning of the story, when Bran watches Ned execute Gared; a moment in which he is also watching with discomfort.

And the importance of Bran's disagreement with executions and sacrifices, is being very, VERY heavily implicated when Asha requests Theon's execution at the weirwood tree. This request is (coupled with Bran's feelings and weirwood communication skills) is a GIGANTIC foreshadow of what will happen during Theon's execution.

Bran had no power to stop Ned from executing Gared. Bran had no power to stop the bronze-sickle wielding woman from executing that unknown man.

But he's got power now ;) And that is all the difference.

This story is rooted in a pattern of repeating history. The reason why GRRM starts the story at this particular point in time, is because he's trying to convey to the reader the break in repeating history; that's why this particular point in time is special. Bran stopping Theon's execution encapsulates this idea - the break in pattern.

Edited by pobeb

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i have an idea. what if Stannins sent the Pink Letter because he knew that he needed more men? i mean, Jon always told him the Nights Watch is neutral but gave him shelter and advice and obviously hates the boltons. Stannis knows or hopes that Jon cannot live with Arya being Ramsays wife. it could be possible that Stannis wrote the letter to provoke Jon as hard as he could to make him come and bring as much men as he can gather, because if Stannis just wrote " dear John we could use some help here" Jon would go "sorry i have to stay neutral".


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Well, the Starks are back, that's clear.

The situation about WF is such a mess, but what keeps me guessing is Bran's involvement.

It seems we are taking for granted that BR, Bran,... are behind the ravens quarking about. The question is, what do they want Theon for?

I don't think Bran has any love for Theon, not I can imagine what use he might think for him... Maybe Winter is coming at last, and Starks' revenge with it. OTOH, Stannis has damaged the weirwoods.

Stannis is meant to abide northern uses, taking Theon before a weirwood and beheading him. I'd expect Bran's side performing some show: the old gods punishing the worshipers of R'hlor or something of the sort. What else?

Perhaps Bran wants Theon to be sent to the Wall , not executed. He may have no love for Theon , but Theon could tell Jon , personally, what actually happened at WF.. without the news of Bran's and Rickon's survival and Ramsay's betrayal becoming common knowledge before it's convenient for Manderly and the GNC. .. and there would be a bonus in terms of the practicalities of defending the wall : Jon could definitely use another expert archery instructor. ...And wouldn't Jon's acceptance of Theon be the ultimate demonstration to wildling hold-outs ( e.g. those who've been following the Weeper) that past transgressions are forgotten if you join the NW or abide by the terms of Tormund and Jon's agreement ?

Stannis has begun, on this campaign, to hold off on the destruction of weirwoods for political reasons (he wants the support of the clans) ..but over time Stannis has become gradually more open to supernatural possibilities. At first he believed nothing of Melisandre's claims , but that changed , partially due to the fact that he began to see his own visions in the flames, at least one that proved true ( the Fist ) . If Bran should manage some sort of demonstration at the Tree .. Stannis would not discount it entirely , and would continue to force his men to respect the sanctity of the weirwoods.

Once Stannis decides to go to the tree , it only makes sense that he would have Tycho's party wait, so that they could report to Jon on what happened. ( At that point he would not know he had a raven to send and would plan for Tycho's party to bear news of Theon's execution.)

I think something will happen to convince Stannis that one of the ravens could possibly fly to Castle Black. And so , though I think Bowen &co. will alter the letter before Jon sees it , I think Stannis is the one who originally wrote it... I don't want to go into all the letter arguments here (they're lengthy) .. I'm just asking - be open to the possibility.

I believe the letter is correct ,and that after the events at the Tree , Theon is sent north with Jeyne and Tycho.

I also think Theon is right , and Ramsay will be coming to the battle and will follow on after his bride and his Reek , and so the letter Stannis sends is primarily a warning to Jon of just who all are on their way , so he can intercept them.

But Stannis is not reckless and just in case the raven flies to WF , Stannis ( who appears to be planning to fake his own death) writes as if he's Ramsay. This way he either warns Jon or fools Roose .. a win for Stannis either way.

ETA: and if anyone could forge a reasonable facsimile of Ramsay's signature , it would be the captured Maester Tybald , I would think. (Though it might make him wet his pants a second time to do it )

Edited by bemused

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I'm pretty sure the pink letter was sent by Mance, There are just too many things to just let slide. Who from the 7 kingdoms has ever called the Night's Watch 'crows'? That's just 1 small reason. If for som reason it isn't Mance, I would say it was Ramsey. But Stannis?????? No.


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I'm pretty sure the pink letter was sent by Mance, There are just too many things to just let slide. Who from the 7 kingdoms has ever called the Night's Watch 'crows'? That's just 1 small reason. If for som reason it isn't Mance, I would say it was Ramsey. But Stannis?????? No.

Yoren was chewing sourleaf. “Told you, no one here but us. You got my word on that.”

The knight in the spiked helm laughed. “The crow gives us his word.”

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