if there must always Stark in Winterfall why Bloodraven call last stark (bran) beyond the wall !

[ShaggyCat]

Where did you come by this information?  I've never seen it expressed this way before and I'm curious.  Everyone else, including myself seems to think there is a very important, albeit unknown reason that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell and I don't think it has anything to do with a political idea of Eddard Stark.  Eddard seems the least politically minded person in all of Westeros, barring Sansa of course.

 

Yeah, the way Ned quotes it makes it sound like an old Northern adage. For whatever reason, and there's plenty of theories as to why the Starks are the key to the fight against the Others (Winter Fell - the place where the Long Night battle was held??) it seems important that there is always a Stark in Winterfell. This is why Benjen stayed at Winterfell during Robert's Rebellion when he was, in theory, of fighting age (given that he shortly thereafter took the Night's Watch vows) 

[Bright Blue Eyes]

 

I think you are putting a lot of stock into BR ability to alter events. There are multiple players, some are in Westeros where he maybe able to effect events but some of them are in areas that don't have weirwood trees and have a lack of animal life. Some of the players are in Essos where I doubt BR has any resources at all.

 

The CotF have been making plans around Bran for over two hundred years if Leaf is to be believed, BR may be only a puppet, a place holder or temporary repository of the greenseer skills, preserved by the CotF until Bran came into the picture. I imagine if he were on a ranging and wounded that the CotF help might not be questioned, hell they may have used a previous greenseer to attract him far north and then replace the old greenseer with the new (BR) just like it seems they have been doing to Bran.

Why would he need to influence anybody? Not influencing Bran on his ability to testify on twincest, guestright-breaking and murder would have been easier and way, way better for Westeros.

 

I agree on not being sold on him having positive intentions. Did he break guestright though? I don't remember if there was any time for food or drink to be served. Seem to recall the beheading the second he landed. Lied about safe passage for sure, just not sure guestright was ever established.

Rules-lawyering may get BR out of it, strictly speaking, but that's what he did, that's what his contemporaries conceived and that's what got him sent to the Wall.

[Mehmet Eren]

It's because Bran's story is an incarnation of the Fisher King Myth, and Winterfell's destruction and rebuilding runs parallel to how Bran is "broken" and healed. "The stone is strong...It was not dead, just broken, like me.")

very interesting theory if book own  something similar end, I am sure I will happy read it

[Errant Bard]

Where did you come by this information?  I've never seen it expressed this way before and I'm curious.  Everyone else, including myself seems to think there is a very important, albeit unknown reason that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell and I don't think it has anything to do with a political idea of Eddard Stark.  Eddard seems the least politically minded person in all of Westeros, barring Sansa of course.

Eddard has been the lord of Winterfell for all his adult life, he dealt with his vassals coming to Winterfell to talk with the Stark, he does not need to be good at it to be what he is, a political figure looked upon to settle what's wrong in his lands, a leader. Ned's job is politics, and he's doing alright.

"The least politically minded" you say... Among what, half a dozen maniacal schemers, and forgetting all the other lords who have a hard time putting two and two together, much less leading a faction?

Ned is probably the one who built the most solid party in the land even ahead of Robert and Rhaegar, with loyal, like-minded people following him. Being a good respected leader is politics, more so than putting poison in your neighbor's wine. What, you think that inviting a different man to your table each day is done just because, for example? He is doing it, consciously, to bring people together, around him. (And no, politics are not a bad thing in themselves - that's true for the real world too: uniting, leading and making people work together toward a shared goal is a noble endeavour.)

I don't even see where the magical meaning of that sentence comes from, given that Eddard did not believe in the supernatural. It's like believing that if your atheist boss says "there must always be someone at the front desk", it's because if there isn't anyone, zombies will start attacking the offices or something, when really, he just wants no interruption of service for his customers. In the context of ASOIAF, when you ascribe a meaning linked to the supernatural/destiny/whatever to it, you are basically saying that you want this "foreshadowing" so much that you are willing to argue that GRRM sucks at characterization, making a character say something he would and should not.

Incidentally, GRRM shows that this was important when Robb then Bran are called upon as the local Stark to be the voice of authority, and Theon demonstrates it again when he believe that subornating/killing the local Stark is enough to give him dominion over the local land.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

 

Yeah, the way Ned quotes it makes it sound like an old Northern adage. For whatever reason, and there's plenty of theories as to why the Starks are the key to the fight against the Others (Winter Fell - the place where the Long Night battle was held??) it seems important that there is always a Stark in Winterfell. This is why Benjen stayed at Winterfell during Robert's Rebellion when he was, in theory, of fighting age (given that he shortly thereafter took the Night's Watch vows) 

I think the Long Night battle was likely held at Battle Isle (base of the Hightower), because no one knows why it is called Battle Isle, and it is right at the southern edge of winter territory during the Long Night, which we know because the Roynish accounts say that the Royne was frozen all the way to where it merges with the Selhoru. Battle Isle is also conspicuously close to Starfall which may be relevant if Dawn was necessary for the battle.

[the trees have eyes]

I've never seen anything remotely magical or mysterious about it, merely simple prudence: you are the ruling family so you always leave one of your kin there to rule, either effectively (Ned leaves Catelyn, Catelyn leaves Robb) or symbolically (Robb leaves Bran who is trotted out by Rodrik and Luwin to preside over feasts or greet important visitors).

 

It's a sign of continuity so even in the absence of their liege lord (Ned as Hand of the King for who knows how long or Robb at war) his lords and smallfolk have a figure to rally around.

 

The Starks are an old family so its easy to read something significant into Winterfell itself but all GRRM has really done is create some engrossing texture with the crypts and the blades of the Kings of Winter or the myths of Bael the Bard and the NK and their connection to the Starks.  There is nothing hinting at anything magical about Winterfell in the way there is about The Wall or Storm's End.

[LordDireStark]

Always having a Stark in Winterfell is a family type tradition. But I believe it has something to do with the founding Stark kings

and the wall and others linked together. Something that ties them and the crypts together and that Brynden Rivers knows

what it is. It was said that Bloodraven had told Dunk and Egg that the Targaryens had visions long before Aegon the conqueror.

It could be good to find out that there is a hidden reason for it.

[StarkofWinterfell]

It's like in World of Warcraft, "there must always be a Lich King" 

[TheNinjaDC]

So he was not flayed alive by Ramesy & his Bolten men.

[Mehmet Eren]

well answer I always wonder about that dream . Did he really saw Bran and rickon dead or did assume to boys were theam.

[Bloodraven's Bastard]

Bloodraven needs Bran to be his apprentice.  It's as simple as that.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

For all the people who think there is nothing to the phrase "There must always be a Stark in WF", I agree there isn't much evidence at all to suggest that is a super important magic phrase, but if you have read asoiaf, it sounds like exactly the type of line that GRRM purposely included to foreshadow an important event. And we all know the books are packed with foreshadowing. Also, WF is clearly an important and magical place beyond just being the home of the Starks, and many readers expect some important shit to go down there, so it would make a ton of sense if the line is another case of classic GRRM foreshadowing.

[Mehmet Eren]

For all the people who think there is nothing to the phrase "There must always be a Stark in WF", I agree there isn't much evidence at all to suggest that is a super important magic phrase, but if you have read asoiaf, it sounds like exactly the type of line that GRRM purposely included to foreshadow an important event. And we all know the books are packed with foreshadowing. Also, WF is clearly an important and magical place beyond just being the home of the Starks, and many readers expect some important shit to go down there, so it would make a ton of sense if the line is another case of classic GRRM foreshadowing.

 

I agree also Bolton stannis fight will occur in there just seems not enough for me.To be honest some people really love wonders how that battle will end but if there will no stark direct connection( rickson show up, bran magic and some similar things ) it is meaningless to me. 

[Mehmet Eren]

It's because Bran's story is an incarnation of the Fisher King Myth, and Winterfell's destruction and rebuilding runs parallel to how Bran is "broken" and healed. "The stone is strong...It was not dead, just broken, like me.")

 

Person who write this write also another interesting theory about Bran and Gorne way if that theory come true and My ideas/hope The wall will fall I expect final battele be at WF and we can see true meaning of ''there must stark in WF.''

[Brian Rioghbhardan]

Wait I had no idea that this was a popular belief. So is everyone saying that not only is the whole "There must always be a stark in Winterfell" have some ancient magical/prophesesque origin behind it that will likely play into the battle against the others but that Ned Stark and the rest of the Starks say this to bran they do so because they are actually aware of the Magical reason for why a stark must always remain in winterfell? Or do you think their is a magical reason behind this but Ned's own insistence on their being a stark in winterfell based purely on tradition that was passed down to him?

[Orphalesion]

Wait I had no idea that this was a popular belief. So is everyone saying that not only is the whole "There must always be a stark in Winterfell" have some ancient magical/prophesesque origin behind it that will likely play into the battle against the others but that Ned Stark and the rest of the Starks say this to bran they do so because they are actually aware of the Magical reason for why a stark must always remain in winterfell? Or do you think their is a magical reason behind this but Ned's own insistence on their being a stark in winterfell based purely on tradition that was passed down to him?

 

No, not everybody is saying it. Some of us just think it's a tradition that could have many reasons for existing.

[Caspoi]

Well I am highly doubtful that there is anything magical about it. It is not even the official Stark words.

[bemused]

Maybe he had sent Benjen to assume the title in the absence of Bran.

 

Now this is an interesting POV.  Can you explain why you think Benjen is there? 

 

I'm not sure if Mithras totally believes it ,or partially believes it, or just sees it as one possibility among many.. But I'm pretty sure Mithras knows I definitely think Benjen's there..(We've been in agreement on many things, but not everything).

 

The short version is - I think the Starks, Winterfell and the Wall are all necessary components of the magical defenses against the Others. "Winter is Coming" serves as their house words..."There must always be a Stark in WF" is an in-family reminder since the days when Starks would have been aware of their magical connections. Because the Others have not been around for so long, and the Starks have had only political considerations to deal with, the true meaning of the maxim has been forgotten.. but not by BR and the CotF.

 

Qhorin was able to convince Jon to do whatever was necessary for the common good (to protect the realms of men) even if it would appear that he broke his vows.. I think BR and the CoTF would be able to convince Benjen of the same thing, and to convince him of the magical reasons for the saying.

 

I think there are very many clues that point in this direction...here's my original thread on the subject..

 

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/93982-benjen-is-a-leader-of-the-gnc-and-the-hooded-man/

 

I know that I've since found more clues.. but it's a daunting task to do an update...

[bemused]

  There is nothing hinting at anything magical about Winterfell in the way there is about The Wall or Storm's End.

 

The hints have been kept subtle, probably because there is a big surprise coming.. but there are a number - from Tyrion's feeling that the godswood was Winterfell, or the heart of Winterfell, up to the fact that the storm Stannis is caught in, and that Jon notices is coming from the south, seems to emanate from Winterfell. And of course Winterfell is said to have been raised by the same hand (Brandon the builder) that raised Storm's end and the Wall. (Even if you think that BtB was more than one person, the magic being used can still have the same source).