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About Orphalesion

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    The Younger and More Beautiful "Queen"

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  1. Orphalesion

    Incest Deficiencies, or lack thereof

    First of all I wasn't the one who brought up the issue, that was the person whom I quoted, so I'm not sure why you are lecturing me about it. And something doesn't have to be constantly condemned, nor do the victims have to be blamed to be portrayed in a negative light. Gilly doesn't have to be called an abomination and Ned doesn't have to call for the heads of Cersei's children. Ned has a lot of compassion and he still is haunted by the dead Targaryen children, so of course his first impulse would be to ensure the safety of Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. And he still isn't "Oh yay! Incest! Good for you!" he just understands that condemning them now won't help anybody or undo the mess they have created. I can't remember him condemning them for high treason either, he just wants those kids to get somewhere safe. But I'm sure you noticed that within the narrative both the relationship Craster has to his daughter, nor the relationship Cersei and Jaime is portrayed as anything but horrible and wrong for the weaker party involved. Craster rapes his daughters and takes away their children, while Cersei and Jaime feed each others' worst impulses. Same with Gilly, Stannis (who's opinions don't count anyway) aside, nobody condemns her because she's the victim, but the perpetrator, Craster, is consistently portrayed in a negative light and seen as creepy and undesirable by pretty much everyone. So yes, incest does get condemned. And the thing about incest taboos in our world being "about superstition and nonsense" is completely wrong. You are doing our ancestors a great disservice by acting like they were too stupid to recognize that "laying with your sister" leads to a higher possibilities of unhealthy children. They were not morons only because they didn't have genetic studies yet. The incest taboos come originally from a sensible and rational angle, it was just later married with a religious taboo because back then that was the easiest way to get people to do (or refrain form doing) something. Most of those religious taboos originally came from a reason that made sense for the time and the culture(s) involved, they didn't just sit around in a circle and thought of things to ban or condemn for the heck of it. Really, that's like saying ancient peoples could have never built Stonehenge/the Pyramids because they didn't have precision tools and machinery yet.
  2. Orphalesion

    Incest Deficiencies, or lack thereof

    What? There are people who think GRRM is pro-incest? Do they somehow miss or willfully ignore how every example of Incestuous relationships is either portrayed as very, very psychologically messed up (or outright rape in cases like Craster and his daughter-wives) or having bad consequences (or both)?
  3. Orphalesion

    Identity of Quaithe

    Nah He was too busy warging Edmure, Daario and a random pheasant at the time.
  4. Orphalesion

    Identity of Quaithe

    I noticed you feel attacked quite easily and seem to think in absolutes. I'm not talking about people who quote passages complete passages for clarity (to follow up on the other post that upset you so much) or notice some symbols that are definitely there. I'm talking about the more far-out cases that really quote whole chapters or who insist that every single thing in there series is a symbol (Sansa did something at the hur of the Bat -> it's because of her Whent heritage!!!11!!!!, some random black alley cat was described as a black bastard ->It's warged by Bloodraven!!!!!) Look up the Old Varys is a Merman crackpot to understand the levels I'm talking about. But if you choose to feel attacked, despite it not being my intention, there's not really anything I can do about it. I would like to say that I'm sorry, but I am not, so that would be lying.
  5. Orphalesion

    Identity of Quaithe

    Thank you! I wish I could like your post just for that. The fandom has taken those things to ridiculous levels. Sadly i don't get the reference, but in my defense I'm quite sleep deprived and will go to bed after this message. Silly me! Character with Q.... OMG, she was Quinn Morgendorffer from Daria????
  6. Orphalesion

    Things you found oddly amusing

    I can only say again that I laughed out loud when the training method of the Unsullied was described. Such ridiculous, over-the-top villainy And I found a lot of what we saw of Ramsay very entertaining, he's just so happy about being a ridiculous cartoon bad guy.
  7. Orphalesion

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    So...another joke thread, only this time it makes up a ridiculous theory for comedic effect rather than turning a simple fact into a theory?
  8. Orphalesion

    Secret Targ - possibly crackpot

    ^What he said. Also; is this even a theory if it doesn't quote entire chapters et verbatim, highlighting random words using HTML colours?
  9. Orphalesion

    Identity of Quaithe

    Quaithe is the mother and daughter of Mellisandre. No but seriously, I'd say Quaithe of Asshai is Quaithe of Asshai and nobody else.
  10. Orphalesion

    Secret Targ - possibly crackpot

    What? Nah....! Next you're gonna tell us that the Mountain and the Hound are brothers (anybody remember that thread? ) Still I like this thread better than 95% of other crackpot threads.
  11. Orphalesion

    Forest guy who only blames human beings

    Yup definitely doesn't sound like Elves. No George, I believe you, the CotF aren't your version of Elves. No. Not at all. No. It's just a coincidence that they are long-lived, magical, close to nature and are past their prime and fading in the "world of men".
  12. Orphalesion

    Mance Rayder violated guest rights!

    Again. Even if that were the case. So. Freaking. What? What do you want now? Do you want us all to swear an oath how "nasty ebil and possibly smelly as well" Jon Snow is? Because I'd have to decline that, on account of multiple reasons. Yeah sucked to be those serving men I guess, but such is Westeros, it's a brutal, primitive society where people were in much higher risk of being killed than today. Nobody's gonna avenge the Boltons. Nobody. Anywhere. Ever. So Mance, and Jon, would still be safe. The Seven simply don't exist and the Old Gods are the uploaded minds of the Children of the Forest, who right now only care about how to deal with the Others. So there wouldn't be any divine retribution either. And this is a series where most heroic characters frequently do shady or downright repulsive things. This leads to the question....so what? To which nobody has given an answer yet.
  13. Orphalesion

    Mance Rayder violated guest rights!

    Or removing a problematic Warden of the north that caused strive and disunity throughout the region would have helped uniting the North against the Others... And sorry, I cannot take anybody seriously who calls Marsh "Poor Bowen Marsh" in a way that's not meant to be irronic. "Awww poor widdle Mawshy..." "Go 'way ebil Jon Snu, only wan be a gud Watch!" This is basically what I've been trying to explain for the last few days, thanks for listing it up like that again
  14. Orphalesion

    Mance Rayder violated guest rights!

    Oh man "for teh Watchz!!!!!!!!" eh? Sure thing Yes i fault Bowen. If Jon's death would stick, he would have killed one of the few people who actually recognize the actual threat the Others pose and is willing to do the dirty work that's needed to survive them. Yes, rules are important. But sometimes rules ought to be broken. Jon broke the rules by having Wildlings and Stannis at the wall, but well, it's the Apocalypse and old rules ought to be broken if anything in Westeros is supposed to survive. Blindly following rules isn't going to help anybody. And no I won't fault Jon for undertaking a covert operation to liberate his sister and then refusing the demands of a sadist to hand over civilians that are under his protection (remember the letter asks for Shireen, Mellisandre and Selyse as well) But then again the way you fault Jon, you probably also fault Jaime for preventing Aeries from blowing up King's Landing, eh? And still nobody has given me a good reason why I should care about whether what Mance did was "against the guest rights" in a series where the heroes of the story frequently act immoral. Either you guys really hate Jon and just want an echo chamber of that sentiment, or you guys really, really like Ramsay and want to defend your sweet little sadist. Or where those nameless serving men your favourite characters? You guys are really just blaming Mance for being smart about the whole thing. Also I just poked around google a bit, there's nothing that explicitly says that the Wildlings even hold the guest right that highly, recognize it by the same categories or indeed whether they have it at all... ^This.
  15. Orphalesion

    Mance Rayder violated guest rights!

    Aside form all the flaws of an idea like that: But that's the problem, the moment we accept the theory that the Seven work through human proxies, then we can't be sure anymore which actions are taken in their service and which are not. The Maiden is associated with virgins and singers. Maybe she sent Mance, a singer, to avenge and save Jeyne Pool (who until recently was a maiden) And actions in service of the gods couldn't be sins,now could they? So using that argument to expect divine wrath to rain down upon Mance/Jon/Mel for breaking the guest rights agains those "poor innocent widdle Boltons" (even if they had broken it) is basically useless. The Guest Right isn't so highly regarded because "the gods say so", but because it was an important custom that allowed violent societies (such as the Westerosi one) to function (and it was still broken often enough). And since society in the North and the Riverlands has all but collapsed anyway, well...