Roose's involvement known?

[JaegrM]

 

Manderly knows for sure once his son was returned to him. After all he was a witness.

Pretty sure that the living MAnderly son is the one Roose left at the river crossing on his way to the red wedding.
Doubt he knows much.

[Lord Wraith]

I thought Wendel Manderly was the witness and he died crossbow blot in his open mouth I believe. Wylis Manderly is the other son that Manderly got back was prisoner in Harrenhal.

 

Correct. Wendel died and Wyllis was part of the rear guard Roose left on the way to the Red Wedding.

 

I think people can guess Roose played a role. As far as stabbing Rob personally not sure that got out unless some of the troops got drunk and started talking about it.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
Correct. Wendel died and Wyllis was part of the rear guard Roose left on the way to the Red Wedding.
 
I think people can guess Roose played a role. As far as stabbing Rob personally not sure that got out unless some of the troops got drunk and started talking about it.

I'd say it's safe to assume that everybody suspects Roose has a hand in Robb dying I mean he returns with most of his men with a Stark to marry and a new shiny LP title with Lannister backing.

And quote bloody frey wife.

[Tucu]

I also want to add that Lady Stoneheart and the BwB were seen by Black Walder's men getting into the Neck at the beginning of AFFC. There is a good chance that they met with Reed's men before going back to the Riverlands to kill Freys and Lannisters.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The only people who would know first hand that Roose killed Robb would be persons in the hall after the bedding, the Freys who participated in the planning of the redd wedding, and Tywin. Others would only know of Roose's murder of Robb second hand or based on rumor and suspicion.

As to the Dreadfort's betrayal, well, I think it's a little too obvious for plausible deniability. Besides, doesn't Roose want them all to know he's ruthless. He's borrowing a page from Commander Tarken... Fear will keep the local systems in line.

[Lord Wraith]

The only people who would know first hand that Roose killed Robb would be persons in the hall after the bedding, the Freys who participated in the planning of the redd wedding, and Tywin. Others would only know of Roose's murder of Robb second hand or based on rumor and suspicion.

As to the Dreadfort's betrayal, well, I think it's a little too obvious for plausible deniability. Besides, doesn't Roose want them all to know he's ruthless. He's borrowing a page from Commander Tarken... Fear will keep the local systems in line.

 

Good old Tarkin Doctrine.  Or in this verse the Tywin doctrine.

[JaegrM]

The only people who would know first hand that Roose killed Robb would be persons in the hall after the bedding, the Freys who participated in the planning of the redd wedding, and Tywin. Others would only know of Roose's murder of Robb second hand or based on rumor and suspicion.

As to the Dreadfort's betrayal, well, I think it's a little too obvious for plausible deniability. Besides, doesn't Roose want them all to know he's ruthless. He's borrowing a page from Commander Tarken... Fear will keep the local systems in line.

No.
A quiet land a peaceful people.
He even tells Ramsay that he's an idiot for thinking that making everyone fear him is a good idea. and says something along the lines of "Do you think I'd have made it this far if people had told tales of me?"

[Fat Mac]

No.
A quiet land a peaceful people.
He even tells Ramsay that he's an idiot for thinking that making everyone fear him is a good idea. and says something along the lines of "Do you think I'd have made it this far if people had told tales of me?"

Well I think Roose rules through fear, just not in the same manner as someone like Tywin. Instead of making grand gestures that imposes your power on your bannermen, Roose looks like a man who is capable of anything. He is secretive, and no one has any official dirt on him, but his personality alone is enough to unnerve people. Robb even mentions how he was terrified of Roose.

To compare him again to a man like Tywin:

Tywin is the man that would have you publicly arrested and executed if you crossed him. Everyone knows it was him, and now they realize his power and what he can do.

Roose is the man who if you cross him he'll make you disappear never to be heard from again. There are whispers as to who's behind it, but no one can prove anything. It's still fear, it's just much more subtle.

At least, that's how I see it. You either rule from fear, respect or love, and I can only see Roose utilizing the first.

[Lost Melnibonean]

No.
A quiet land a peaceful people.
He even tells Ramsay that he's an idiot for thinking that making everyone fear him is a good idea. and says something along the lines of "Do you think I'd have made it this far if people had told tales of me?"

But there's a slight difference between Roose and Ramsay in that sense. The tales to which Roose is referring are sick perversions. I think Roose wants to be seen as ruthless in a cold and calculating way. Think about the veiled threat he makes to Walder or his veiled demamd for hostages from his allies.

[JaegrM]

But there's a slight difference between Roose and Ramsay in that sense. The tales to which Roose is referring are sick perversions. I think Roose wants to be seen as ruthless in a cold and calculating way. Think about the veiled threat he makes to Walder or his veiled demamd for hostages from his allies.

Those seem pretty run of the mill, hostages, wards, and the like seem pretty commonplace. the tribesman from the north talk about how it was standard to send boys to Winterfell.
I think all Lords, even the loved ones like Ned inspire some fear.

From my reading Bolton is definitely a cold, calculating man, but I feel as though he rules his lands probably pretty similar to say... Stannis more than Tywin.
If someone stole from Tywin, he'd execute them and put their head on a spike as a warning,
Stannis would chop off their hand.
Roose would flay the hand before he chopped it off and removed their tongue.

[bemused]

Roose rules through fear, alright..we got a very clear picture of his style when Arya was his cup bearer. he gets a peaceful land a quiet people because everyone is afraid to make a wrong move or speak out of turn. But that's still different from Ramsay.. Ramsay rules through terror.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Not known, but perhaps suspected.

 

Im not sure there were any witnesses left alive who can corroborate that "Lannisters send their regards" line.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Well I think Roose rules through fear, just not in the same manner as someone like Tywin. Instead of making grand gestures that imposes your power on your bannermen, Roose looks like a man who is capable of anything. He is secretive, and no one has any official dirt on him, but his personality alone is enough to unnerve people. Robb even mentions how he was terrified of Roose.

To compare him again to a man like Tywin:

Tywin is the man that would have you publicly arrested and executed if you crossed him. Everyone knows it was him, and now they realize his power and what he can do.

Roose is the man who if you cross him he'll make you disappear never to be heard from again. There are whispers as to who's behind it, but no one can prove anything. It's still fear, it's just much more subtle.

At least, that's how I see it. You either rule from fear, respect or love, and I can only see Roose utilizing the first.

 

Well said

[Lord Wraith]

Well I think Roose rules through fear, just not in the same manner as someone like Tywin. Instead of making grand gestures that imposes your power on your bannermen, Roose looks like a man who is capable of anything. He is secretive, and no one has any official dirt on him, but his personality alone is enough to unnerve people. Robb even mentions how he was terrified of Roose.

To compare him again to a man like Tywin:

Tywin is the man that would have you publicly arrested and executed if you crossed him. Everyone knows it was him, and now they realize his power and what he can do.

Roose is the man who if you cross him he'll make you disappear never to be heard from again. There are whispers as to who's behind it, but no one can prove anything. It's still fear, it's just much more subtle.

At least, that's how I see it. You either rule from fear, respect or love, and I can only see Roose utilizing the first.

 

Agreed that was well put,

 

Tywin is overstated and Roose is understated.

[SnowShark]

We've seen before how quickly news and rumours spread in Westeros, especially amongst travellers. Anyone who has come into contact with the current or former members of the BWB since Lady Stoneheart was resurrected would presumably hear a version of the story from them, even though her former identity doesn't appear well-known. With the group splitting it up that would presumably increase the potential audience and see stories reach parts of the North quickly.

[Agnes]

Not known, but perhaps suspected.
 
Im not sure there were any witnesses left alive who can corroborate that "Lannisters send their regards" line.

Cat? She is pretty alive right now.

[pigpiginsunspear]

I seem to recall a scene from Cersei's POV where the council was talking about how the smallfolk and some lords were saying that the Lannister's needed to be punished for their involvement?

​And they discussed punishing the Freys or encouraging Walder's heirs to speed up his death to pacify people?

 

Now that you mention it, I think I remember something like that as well. I guess Lannister involvement isn't so much of a secret.

[Caspoi]

Everyone can guess, even if they do not exactly know, Lannister involvment is pretty much out in the open and they were a loot more subtle about it.

 

Lost Melnibonean@ heh, the Doctrine of Fear.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Those seem pretty run of the mill, hostages, wards, and the like seem pretty commonplace. the tribesman from the north talk about how it was standard to send boys to Winterfell.
I think all Lords, even the loved ones like Ned inspire some fear.

From my reading Bolton is definitely a cold, calculating man, but I feel as though he rules his lands probably pretty similar to say... Stannis more than Tywin.
If someone stole from Tywin, he'd execute them and put their head on a spike as a warning,
Stannis would chop off their hand.
Roose would flay the hand before he chopped it off and removed their tongue.

But whereas Roose was constantly loiking for any weakness to exploit to better his standing at the ruinous expense of his liege, Stannis was not.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Roose rules through fear, alright..we got a very clear picture of his style when Arya was his cup bearer. he gets a peaceful land a quiet people because everyone is afraid to make a wrong move or speak out of turn. But that's still different from Ramsay.. Ramsay rules through terror.

Nice contrast.