If Lyanna did not die and she married Robert, will robert still kill Jon?

[purple-eyes]

I saw they are talking about the bride candidates for robert, so I thought about this. 

let us say Lyanna was found alive with Jon. Since Robert was waiting for her to marry her, and he said he did not want to marry if he can not marry Lyanna, 

so let us say Robert married Lyanna and made her queen of westeros. 

Then surely he would figure out she had already birthed a child (how tyrion found about Lemore, and also there was pycelle, famous OB/GYN).

Even Ned hid Jon somewhere in winterfell as his bastard, I think eventually Robert would find out. 

so, will robert spare Jon since this is the son of his beloved wife and queen?

he would not want to make her upset by killing Jon, especially Jon did not look like Rhaegar at all. 

maybe he will just let ned raise him and asked him to send him to the wall when he is of age. 

So everything else remain the same, except Lyanna is his wife. 

maybe Lyanna will give him children, or maybe Lyanna hated robert because he killed her lover, then she did the same thing as Cersei, then all the stories would be same.

 

 

 

 

[Kaibaman]

Well in this scenario he would still be considered a Targaryen bastard and therefore somewhat of a threat to Robert and his hold over the throne. I suppose the best option for would be to make Jon take the Black although this time involuntarily.

[redtree]

He won't kill him because it would displeased Lyanna, i think the main reason he has irrational hate to all the Targaryen is because he thinks Lyanna was raped to death

[TimJames]

I saw they are talking about the bride candidates for robert, so I thought about this. 

let us say Lyanna was found alive with Jon. Since Robert was waiting for her to marry her, and he said he did not want to marry if he can not marry Lyanna, 

so let us say Robert married Lyanna and made her queen of westeros. 

Then surely he would figure out she had already birthed a child (how tyrion found about Lemore, and also there was pycelle, famous OB/GYN).

Even Ned hid Jon somewhere in winterfell as his bastard, I think eventually Robert would find out. 

so, will robert spare Jon since this is the son of his beloved wife and queen?

he would not want to make her upset by killing Jon, especially Jon did not look like Rhaegar at all. 

maybe he will just let ned raise him and asked him to send him to the wall when he is of age. 

So everything else remain the same, except Lyanna is his wife. 

maybe Lyanna will give him children, or maybe Lyanna hated robert because he killed her lover, then she did the same thing as Cersei, then all the stories would be same.

I'm assuming that if Lyanna wasn't executed by Eddard or Robert, then she did not run away and was taken against her will (which I believe anyway). If that's the case, she would not be upset at Robert for killing Rhaegar.

I think Jon Snow would probably be sent to a place where he would have to take an oath of celibacy. That way Robert won't have to kill him, Rhaegar's bloodline won't continue, and he won't be able to challenge his younger half-brother's claim to the Iron Throne. Jon Snow might be sent to Silent Isle, where he'll become a Begging Brother (and perhaps even The High Septon). He might be sent to The Citadel, where he'll become a Maester (and perhaps even The Grand Maester). He might be sent to The Wall to be a Black Brother (and perhaps even be Lord Commander [crazy, I know]).

If Lyanna really wants Jon Snow to be kept a secret, than Eddard might raise it as his own. Lyanna could tell Robert that the child Rhaegar forced her to bare was stillborn, or she could hope he won't notice. 

Call me idealistic, but I really think Robert would stay faithful to Lyanna if she lived. If he wouldn't have before, than almost losing her would assure he never risks losing her again. 

[purple-eyes]

I'm assuming that if Lyanna wasn't executed by Eddard or Robert, then she did not run away and was taken against her will (which I believe anyway). If that's the case, she would not be upset at Robert for killing Rhaegar.

I think Jon Snow would probably be sent to a place where he would have to take an oath of celibacy. That way Robert won't have to kill him, Rhaegar's bloodline won't continue, and he won't be able to challenge his younger half-brother's claim to the Iron Throne. Jon Snow might be sent to Silent Isle, where he'll become a Begging Brother (and perhaps even The High Septon). He might be sent to The Citadel, where he'll become a Maester (and perhaps even The Grand Maester). He might be sent to The Wall to be a Black Brother (and perhaps even be Lord Commander [crazy, I know]).

If Lyanna really wants Jon Snow to be kept a secret, than Eddard might raise it as his own. Lyanna could tell Robert that the child Rhaegar forced her to bare was stillborn, or she could hope he won't notice. 

Call me idealistic, but I really think Robert would stay faithful to Lyanna if she lived. If he wouldn't have before, than almost losing her would assure he never risks losing her again. 

yes, you are idealistic. 

Robert would still have numerous bastards around. and I am sure he would get tired of lyanna after some time once he really had her. or changed his opinion once he knew her true personality which he never knew before. 

he loved that perfect "lyanna" only because he never had her, rhaegar took her from him, and more importantly, she died. 

His dislike in Cersei also helped him too. 

[Regular John Umber]

"Still"? We don't know he would have. He didn't kill any Targaryen children himself. 

[TimJames]

yes, you are idealistic. 

Robert would still have numerous bastards around. and I am sure he would get tired of lyanna after some time once he really had her. or changed his opinion once he knew her true personality which he never knew before. 

he loved that perfect "lyanna" only because he never had her, rhaegar took her from him, and more importantly, she died. 

His dislike in Cersei also helped him too. 

Your over-simpilifying him. While Robert idealized Lyanna in one scene after her death, that was probably just nostalgia at play. It doesn't bare on how he could have seen her while she was still alive. 

Robert's like an onion: he has layers. 

[John Doe]

Your over-simpilifying him. While Robert idealized Lyanna in one scene after her death, that was probably just nostalgia at play. It doesn't bare on how he could have seen her while she was still alive. 

People act like he never met her.

[purple-eyes]

"Still"? We don't know he would have. He didn't kill any Targaryen children himself. 

he did want to kill a pregnant dany. 

[purple-eyes]

 

People act like he never met her.

 

unless Ned said he only saw her face, not her personality. 

 

[John Doe]

 

unless Ned said he only saw her face, not her personality. 

 

He also

had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart.

[purple-eyes]

 

 

He also

so what?

1. Ned tried to comfort a complaining lyanna, of course he will say that. 

2. Himself is a teenager at that moment. And love robert more than his brothers. He is biased. 

3. Ned said robert would declare truelove over women, then after sleeping with her, he would totally forget. 

 

[WhitewolfStark]

Half the reason there is so many bastards in canon is that Robert never respected Cersei in the slightest--not even on their wedding night.
 

Honestly, I don't think Robert would be uber-faithful to Lyanna, but by the same token, he won't have 16 bastards either. I could see him instead being more discrete, taking a whore whenever Lyanna is pregnant and in confinement for the last two months of her pregnancies (assuming that having Jon doesn't ruin her from having more kids due to being underdeveloped possibly), or if he's on campaign and warring. Beyond that, Robert knows that taking whores would be as much a spit in the face to his "brother by choice & marriage" as it would be to Lyanna. If he sticks to such--Lyanna won't like it, but women in Westeros expect their husbands to do as much. For one thing, Robert wouldn't be leaving behind any little Snows at Winterfell when he & Lyanna visits--not like when Robert & Cersei visited Casterly Rock.

I see them as being a very physical and argumentative couple--too alike for their own good. You know the kind of couple who hurl insults at each other in public (neither afraid of doing so) and then resolve issues by sneaking off for makeup sex instead of talking things out. In modern day they'd be constantly in and out of couples therapy or always on the verge of divorce but never quite going that far. Too brash for their own good, too wild for their own good, and too stubborn for their own good as well. One thing I do think that wouldn't happen is that Robert would never hit her, for some reason that I just see as being off the table for Robert, even though he does hit Cersei in canon. And as the mother of his children that he'll actually be able to bond with--it'll always be the kids which will unite them or bring them back together. As Lyanna ages--I could see her becoming more like Lady Ravella Smallwood (nee Swann), who could hold her own with a bawdy battle of the wits, recall that when asked if she'd seen Jaime Lannister--she answered:

"What did m'lady tell them?" asked Jack-Be-Lucky.

"Why, that I had Ser Jaime naked in my bed, but I'd left him much too exhausted to come down. One of them had the effrontery to call me a liar, so we saw them off with a few quarrels. I believe they made for Blackbottom Bend."

Arya squirmed restlessly in her seat.

Arya in general sees Lady Ravella as a kind of kindred spirit by the end of her stay there--and though Lady Smallwood insists on Arya dressing and being treated like a proper lady, Lady Ravella doesn't get angry over Arya ruining the dress, and is more than understanding about the entire affair, if not affectionate with Arya. If we do the typical Arya = mini Lyanna idea, I could therefore see Lyanna being much like Lady Ravella as she ages. Heck, Lyanna herself might take lovers or say she does just to prod Robert's temper from time to time when she and him are out of favor with one another.

 

That's the type of woman who Robert would get along well with (very much like him in personality), if he minded himself and was discrete about his other activities. He'll blunder however and both of them will huff and puff... and after a big row make up once again. His relationship with a living Lyanna would likely be rocky--but better than he had with Cersei; with more than a few times Lyanna retreating to Winterfell for some reason or another or over some argument--dragging her kids with her and forcing Robert to have to come begging for forgiveness. It won't be good for the Kingdom in the least, and it'll cause a lot of drama, but it'll never be a dull moment either--which I don't think either Lyanna or Robert would want (no dull moments for them).

Yeah, that's speculation based on snippets of character that we have to assume, but hey, you asked for speculation.

[The Three Whores]

In defense of Bobby B., he did make some effort early in his marriage with Cersei. He would invite her on his hunts and such, but Cersei wouldn't give him the time of day ever since he called out Lyanna's name on their wedding night, which while wrong it wouldn't surprise me if the guy was so drunk he can't even remember it.

And then when he did start sleeping around again, he was very discreet about and Cersei had to have him followed to discover it.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

It depends if Lyanna is sick and survives or never gets sick.

Let's assume that she is never sick

If you play it out, Rhaegar still dies at the Trident but now Lyanna is not sick, so the King's Guard no longer have to wait to move Jon to safety.

Those three guards are moving Jon to Dragonstone with or with out Lyanna's permission. So what does Lyanna do? Does she go with them or give up her child? I think she goes, she is already facing the new King and her brother for what happened during the Rebellion, it would be easier for her to go with her child. Could she face all of Westeros' judgement (rightful or not) AND live with out her child from Rhaegar?

So say they make it to Dragonstone, Daenerys is born and Rhaella dies. Newly crowned infant Jon and his uncle Viserys and Aunt Daenerys flee to Essos, along with Lyanna (now acting as a surrogate mother to Daenerys and Viserys) along with the three King's Guard and Willem Darry. Now after that... I dont know. That changes the story so much I dont know how it goes from there.

 

Let's say Lyanna is sick, but she is well enough that Ned gets her to a Maester after the Tower and she survives. Ned killed the three Guards and has both Lyanna and Jon.

In this case I think Ned convinces her to hide the truth about her and Rhaegar. That Rhaegar took her and Jon was the product of rape.

Otherwise there is a good chance that either Robert executes Lyanna and the baby OR Ned has to rise up against the Crown (again) to protect Lyanna and Jon.

So Ned tells Robert that she was kidnapped and raped and had Rhaegar's bastard. That she is not fit to be Queen (too traumatized, but Robert sees it a damaged goods). Ned convinces Robert to let her return to Winterfell, with the baby. Ned will be there to help raise it and the child will never pose a threat to his reign.

Jon goes to Winterfell, this time as Ned's bastard nephew instead of son and Lyanna ends up marrying one of Ned's men who is in service to Winterfell so she stays close. Robb and Jon still end up as close as brothers, but Jon never joins the Night's Watch and is fiercely Loyal to the Baratheons thinking he is the product of rape from the madman Rhaegar.

I think either way Robert marries Cersei and not Lyanna.

[purple-eyes]

It depends if Lyanna is sick and survives or never gets sick.

Let's assume that she is never sick

If you play it out, Rhaegar still dies at the Trident but now Lyanna is not sick, so the King's Guard no longer have to wait to move Jon to safety.

Those three guards are moving Jon to Dragonstone with or with out Lyanna's permission. So what does Lyanna do? Does she go with them or give up her child? I think she goes, she is already facing the new King and her brother for what happened during the Rebellion, it would be easier for her to go with her child. Could she face all of Westeros' judgement (rightful or not) AND live with out her child from Rhaegar?

So say they make it to Dragonstone, Daenerys is born and Rhaella dies. Newly crowned infant Jon and his uncle Viserys and Aunt Daenerys flee to Essos, along with Lyanna (now acting as a surrogate mother to Daenerys and Viserys) along with the three King's Guard and Willem Darry. Now after that... I dont know. That changes the story so much I dont know how it goes from there.

 

Let's say Lyanna is sick, but she is well enough that Ned gets her to a Maester after the Tower and she survives. Ned killed the three Guards and has both Lyanna and Jon.

In this case I think Ned convinces her to hide the truth about her and Rhaegar. That Rhaegar took her and Jon was the product of rape.

Otherwise there is a good chance that either Robert executes Lyanna and the baby OR Ned has to rise up against the Crown (again) to protect Lyanna and Jon.

So Ned tells Robert that she was kidnapped and raped and had Rhaegar's bastard. That she is not fit to be Queen (too traumatized, but Robert sees it a damaged goods). Ned convinces Robert to let her return to Winterfell, with the baby. Ned will be there to help raise it and the child will never pose a threat to his reign.

Jon goes to Winterfell, this time as Ned's bastard nephew instead of son and Lyanna ends up marrying one of Ned's men who is in service to Winterfell so she stays close. Robb and Jon still end up as close as brothers, but Jon never joins the Night's Watch and is fiercely Loyal to the Baratheons thinking he is the product of rape from the madman Rhaegar.

I think either way Robert marries Cersei and not Lyanna.

the assumption is that robert loved lyanna so much that even he knew lyanna loved rhaegar and eloped with him (dumped him) and also had a bastard child with him, he still wanted to marry lyanna and indeed married her as queen. Just Like Menelaus in the Troy story. 

 

[Maxxine]

I'm assuming that if Lyanna wasn't executed by Eddard or Robert, then she did not run away and was taken against her will (which I believe anyway). If that's the case, she would not be upset at Robert for killing Rhaegar.

I think Jon Snow would probably be sent to a place where he would have to take an oath of celibacy. That way Robert won't have to kill him, Rhaegar's bloodline won't continue, and he won't be able to challenge his younger half-brother's claim to the Iron Throne. Jon Snow might be sent to Silent Isle, where he'll become a Begging Brother (and perhaps even The High Septon). He might be sent to The Citadel, where he'll become a Maester (and perhaps even The Grand Maester). He might be sent to The Wall to be a Black Brother (and perhaps even be Lord Commander [crazy, I know]).

If Lyanna really wants Jon Snow to be kept a secret, than Eddard might raise it as his own. Lyanna could tell Robert that the child Rhaegar forced her to bare was stillborn, or she could hope he won't notice. 

Call me idealistic, but I really think Robert would stay faithful to Lyanna if she lived. If he wouldn't have before, than almost losing her would assure he never risks losing her again. 

Even if she did run away herself why would she be executed? Nothing she has done is punishable by death. She hasn't committed treason because Robert wasn't king when she ran away. Breaking a betrothal is frowned upon, but you're not executed for it. I wouldn't put it past Robert to kill her in a fit of rage if/when he found out but that's a different scenario than her being executed. Just curious as to what you mean by this?

[purple-eyes]

Even if she did run away herself why would she be executed? Nothing she has done is punishable by death. She hasn't committed treason because Robert wasn't king when she ran away. Breaking a betrothal is frowned upon, but you're not executed for it. I wouldn't put it past Robert to kill her in a fit of rage if/when he found out but that's a different scenario than her being executed. Just curious as to what you mean by this?

Yeah, it is usually not punishable by death. A shame of walk is more reasonable for Lyanna. 

But the point is that, the outcome is very disastrous, no matter how you explained for her, her eloping action indeed ignited the whole thing and eventually led the deaths of thousands of people. 

So people (both rebellion and Targ loyalists) may just blame her for everything (since Rhaegar already died), rebellion people would think she is a traitor over their new king robert and also house stark, and loyalists would think she seduced rhaegar and made him fail. It is kind of unfair, but that is the way angry people would behave (they lost a lot of family during the war). At this point, Lyanna is the target for both sides. So I can see she will be killed (mercy-killing) if her actual action was declared. 

People will say: what? so many good men died to rescue her, but this is just because she wanted to have some hot sex with the prince? 

Honestly it is lucky for Lyanna to die at childbirth. Otherwise she would be in big trouble. Even Ned may not be able to rescue her. 

 

 

[Dorian Martell]

Lyana has to die for the rest of the story to work, so be it by Bob or an accident, she wouldn't live to marry him so the rest of the story that the author wrote  would work 

[The scourge of westeros]

Half the reason there is so many bastards in canon is that Robert never respected Cersei in the slightest--not even on their wedding night.
 

Honestly, I don't think Robert would be uber-faithful to Lyanna, but by the same token, he won't have 16 bastards either. I could see him instead being more discrete, taking a whore whenever Lyanna is pregnant and in confinement for the last two months of her pregnancies (assuming that having Jon doesn't ruin her from having more kids due to being underdeveloped possibly), or if he's on campaign and warring. Beyond that, Robert knows that taking whores would be as much a spit in the face to his "brother by choice & marriage" as it would be to Lyanna. If he sticks to such--Lyanna won't like it, but women in Westeros expect their husbands to do as much. For one thing, Robert wouldn't be leaving behind any little Snows at Winterfell when he & Lyanna visits--not like when Robert & Cersei visited Casterly Rock.

I see them as being a very physical and argumentative couple--too alike for their own good. You know the kind of couple who hurl insults at each other in public (neither afraid of doing so) and then resolve issues by sneaking off for makeup sex instead of talking things out. In modern day they'd be constantly in and out of couples therapy or always on the verge of divorce but never quite going that far. Too brash for their own good, too wild for their own good, and too stubborn for their own good as well. One thing I do think that wouldn't happen is that Robert would never hit her, for some reason that I just see as being off the table for Robert, even though he does hit Cersei in canon. And as the mother of his children that he'll actually be able to bond with--it'll always be the kids which will unite them or bring them back together. As Lyanna ages--I could see her becoming more like Lady Ravella Smallwood (nee Swann), who could hold her own with a bawdy battle of the wits, recall that when asked if she'd seen Jaime Lannister--she answered:

Arya in general sees Lady Ravella as a kind of kindred spirit by the end of her stay there--and though Lady Smallwood insists on Arya dressing and being treated like a proper lady, Lady Ravella doesn't get angry over Arya ruining the dress, and is more than understanding about the entire affair, if not affectionate with Arya. If we do the typical Arya = mini Lyanna idea, I could therefore see Lyanna being much like Lady Ravella as she ages. Heck, Lyanna herself might take lovers or say she does just to prod Robert's temper from time to time when she and him are out of favor with one another.

 

That's the type of woman who Robert would get along well with (very much like him in personality), if he minded himself and was discrete about his other activities. He'll blunder however and both of them will huff and puff... and after a big row make up once again. His relationship with a living Lyanna would likely be rocky--but better than he had with Cersei; with more than a few times Lyanna retreating to Winterfell for some reason or another or over some argument--dragging her kids with her and forcing Robert to have to come begging for forgiveness. It won't be good for the Kingdom in the least, and it'll cause a lot of drama, but it'll never be a dull moment either--which I don't think either Lyanna or Robert would want (no dull moments for them).

Yeah, that's speculation based on snippets of character that we have to assume, but hey, you asked for speculation.

sometimes I wonder whether Robert truly wanted to be with Lyanna because he genuinely loved her, or if his deep love for Lyanna was a result of his closeness with Ned and wanting the two of them to be truly bonded as family. I feel like the relationship of Ned and Robert are the root of Roberts aspirations towards Lyanna. Robert wanted Ned to be family